More New Flyers

[Busjack]

Looking back at the roof pods on the now "supposed" DE60LFR at the New Flyer plant... I don't think it's a New Flyer DE60LFR in the picture... it looks like a New Flyer XN60LFR or X60LFR... whatever it is, it looks like a Xcelsior model.

Depends if the body shell is steel or plastic. I'm betting on steel, and hence not an X.

Go back and look at roof equipment on DE60LFRs. I suppose that Wikipedia pictures don't lie, and here is one of a Seattle one which has roof shrouds. Supposedly, Chicago's is based on that.

[sw4400]

Depends if the body shell is steel or plastic. I'm betting on steel, and hence not an X.

Go back and look at roof equipment on DE60LFRs. I suppose that Wikipedia pictures don't lie, and here is one of a Seattle one which has roof shrouds. Supposedly, Chicago's is based on that.

Well, I can't argue that point...

[artthouwill]

Well if North Park takes on #77 Belmont to help Forest Glen with the de-crowding plan, they might need additional articulated buses. Belmont is one of the highest volume bus routes when it turns onto Kimball and heads over to the Blue Line Subway station to pick up passengers... it's like half the city boards your bus relentlessly!!! I was one of the unfortunate ones on a 6000-Series Flxible once on Belmont, and when we got to the Subway, there had to be 30-50 people board our bus, taking all the seats, all the standing room and even standing on the stars in the front up against the door!!! It was a nightmare trying to exit the bus when you got to your stop. I doubt the CTA will be dumb enough to assign 77th or 103rd to cover a route that far north from the garage. North Park is the north side articulated bus garage, with Kedzie being the other, although it's located on S. Pulaski, which is a lot longer of a run for a articulated to come from there to cover Belmont. With North Park covering X98 Avon Express, #22 Clark, #50 Damen, #82 Kimball/Homan, #146 Inner Drive Express, #147 Outer Drive Express, #151 Sheridan, #152 Addison, #154 Wrigley Field Express, that already spreads the articulated supply. Now if you include in some of Forest Glen's busiest, high-volume routes like #56 Milwaukee, #74 Fullerton, #77 Belmont, #78 Montrose, #80 Irving Park, and #81 Lawrence, there's 15 routes that are high volume that require articulated buses. 100 sound like a lot, but divided into those 15 routes that comes to about 7 buses/route... That's insufficent, especially if some buses are out of service for repairs.

Again, we'll see what the CTA does with these articulateds that will start to come in around November and December, but I'm thinking North Park, Kedzie will get the DE60LFR's first, with 103rd getting some of their DE60LF's for the Jeffrey Jump project and the Red Line Rehabilitation project due to start in Spring, 2013. Remember, only these three garages are capable of storing and maintaining the 60' buses right now, the other garages have to be overhauled to store and maintain these larger vehicles.

77th IS also capable of handling artics. Remember it hasn't been that long ago that the 6Jackson Pk Exp was transferred to 103rd from 77th, which had about15 to 20 NF artics, and about 25 NABI ones before then. I know your prayer is to get artics on Belmont, but realistically how many more artics can NP cram into their facility?

[Busjack]

77th IS also capable of handling artics. Remember it hasn't been that long ago that the 6Jackson Pk Exp was transferred to 103rd from 77th, which had about15 to 20 NF artics, and about 25 NABI ones before then. I know your prayer is to get artics on Belmont, but realistically how many more artics can NP cram into their facility?

The eternal question for both 77th and NP as that at one time they had capacities in the 300s, including artics. Then in 2008, someone decided that each garage gets 250. Certain routes got cleared out of both, and in NP's case got sent to K, 77th's mostly to 103.

[ChicagoNova]

Looking back at the roof pods on the now "supposed" DE60LFR at the New Flyer plant... I don't think it's a New Flyer DE60LFR in the picture... it looks like a New Flyer XN60LFR or X60LFR... whatever it is, it looks like a Xcelsior model.

It actually is an Xcelsior model (XN60). I've virtually scoped that out online many times. A lot of times I wonder if the Xcelsior would be the best type to go with.

[Busjack]

It actually is an Xcelsior model (XN60). I've virtually scoped that out online many times. A lot of times I wonder if the Xcelsior would be the best type to go with.

Did you look at the Seattle picture? Is that one too, despite what every other source says?

Also, the annotation of the CTA picture of MVTArider on Flickr indicating that it has a normal CTA back? Not an Xcelsior one?

[ChicagoNova]

Did you look at the Seattle picture? Is that one too, despite what every other source says?

Also, the annotation of the CTA picture of MVTArider on Flickr indicating that it has a normal CTA back? Not an Xcelsior one?

Do you have the link to the Seattle picture?If that has a normal CTA back and not that of an Xcelsior, then it is probably not an Xcelsior.

[Busjack]

Do you have the link to the Seattle picture?If that has a normal CTA back and not that of an Xcelsior, then it is probably not an Xcelsior.

Look at message 201, at the top of this page.

Or for that matter, the original LFR, the Vancouver trolley bus

And "that" is MVTArider's Flickr picture of the CTA bus.

[ChicagoNova]

Look at message 201, at the top of this page.

Or for that matter, the original LFR, the Vancouver trolley bus

And "that" is MVTArider's Flickr picture of the CTA bus.

Alright. That is actually a E40LFR, and the picture accessed via the link in message #201 is actually a streamlined version of DE60LFR, which we're apparently going to get.

[sw4400]

77th IS also capable of handling artics.

Only assigned articulated garages since NABI 60-LFW's have been in service have been P, K, 1

Remember it hasn't been that long ago that the 6Jackson Pk Exp was transferred to 103rd from 77th, which had about15 to 20 NF artics, and about 25 NABI ones before then.

You're going to have to show rosters or photos from that time that shows that point, because I've only seen the above mentioned garages have articulated buses assigned to them.

I know your prayer is to get artics on Belmont, but realistically how many more artics can NP cram into their facility?

It's not just a prayer, it's reality, artthouwill... unless Belmont implements "A" and "B" bus service where Belmont "A" buses turn down Kimball and pick up half of Chicago at the Blue Line Subway and Belmont "B" buses stay on Belmont and don't route to the Subway down Kimball, that's the only solution. More 40' buses at 5-10 minute intervals will not solve this overcrowding issue. Only assigning some articulated buses to #77 Belmont will solve this problem. And those buses will have to come from North Park, as Forest Glen doesn't have the capacity or facilities to house or work on them.

[Busjack]

Only assigned articulated garages since NABI 60-LFW's have been in service have been P, K, 1

Not true. 77 had NABIs, especially for 79 and 87, and reportedly New Flyers for 6 until the 2010 cutbacks. Personal observation on 79th and people posted pictures of them on 87th (like here; search page for 87th). Essentially 77th had the 7700s, and a few higher 7600s.

[busfan2847]

Only assigned articulated garages since NABI 60-LFW's have been in service have been P, K, 1

77th has also had articulated buses allocated.

I have 7686-7710 at 77th from before Oct 2007 until withdrawn in Feb 2009

The following New Flyers have also operated from 77th:-

4012/4/6/8/20/2/4/6/8/30/2/4/6 from 103rd 1/09, to K 2/09 (NABI withdrawal shuffle!)

4033-4041 from P or K 4/09, to K 8/09

4061-4064 from K or 103rd 8/09, to K 12/09

4065-4080 from K or 103rd 8/09, to 103rd 2/10 (Doomsday shuffle)

Since 2/10 the New Flyer artics have only been allocated to K, 103rd and P.

No NF artics were delivered new to 77th they have all come from and gone to other depots as listed.

[Busjack]

77th has also had articulated buses allocated.

I have 7686-7710 at 77th from before Oct 2007 until withdrawn in Feb 2009

The following New Flyers have also operated from 77th:-

4012/4/6/8/20/2/4/6/8/30/2/4/6 from 103rd 1/09, to K 2/09 (NABI withdrawal shuffle!)

4033-4041 from P or K 4/09, to K 8/09

4061-4064 from K or 103rd 8/09, to K 12/09

4065-4080 from K or 103rd 8/09, to 103rd 2/10 (Doomsday shuffle)

Since 2/10 the New Flyer artics have only been allocated to K, 103rd and P.

None were delivered new to 77th they have all come from and gone to other depots as listed.

I assume by "none" you mean New Flyers, as the 7686+ NABIs were an original allocation.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Every since Chicago has had artics 77th has had them, beginning with the M.A.N artics all the way to the New Flyers. It was only recently (about 2 years ago)that they lost artics to 103rd, because #6 (an artic required route)was moved to 103rd. Rosters have already been mentioned for the NABI and New Flyers. I doubt anyone has a roster for the M.A.N's.

Only assigned articulated garages since NABI 60-LFW's have been in service have been P, K, 1

You're going to have to show rosters or photos from that time that shows that point, because I've only seen the above mentioned garages have articulated buses assigned to them.

It's not just a prayer, it's reality, artthouwill... unless Belmont implements "A" and "B" bus service where Belmont "A" buses turn down Kimball and pick up half of Chicago at the Blue Line Subway and Belmont "B" buses stay on Belmont and don't route to the Subway down Kimball, that's the only solution. More 40' buses at 5-10 minute intervals will not solve this overcrowding issue. Only assigning some articulated buses to #77 Belmont will solve this problem. And those buses will have to come from North Park, as Forest Glen doesn't have the capacity or facilities to house or work on them.

[See Tea Eh]

Looking back at the roof pods on the now "supposed" DE60LFR at the New Flyer plant... I don't think it's a New Flyer DE60LFR in the picture... it looks like a New Flyer XN60LFR or X60LFR... whatever it is, it looks like a Xcelsior model.

There is no such model as XN60LFR or X60LFR.

The actual models for Xcelsiors would be X + fuel/power type + size. No LF, no LFR suffix.

The XN60, for example, would be a natural gas bus (for Xcelsiors, New Flyer has replaced C - for CNG - with N - for NG) which CTA assuredly is not getting, as they do not have the infrastructure for them. An XDE40 would be a diesel-electric hybrid 40-footer. An XD40 would be a standard diesel 40-footer.

Besides certain press releases specifically referring to LFRs (I'm pretty sure I've read them somewhere, where they referred to the specific model), you can tell in that photo that it's not an Xcelsior. The roof line of the Xcelsior (not counting any roof equipment such as CNG tanks or battery packs for hybrids) has a slight raised hump right at the front of the bus, which does not exist on the bus in that photo.

You can see some examples here (you may have to click to expand the Xcelsior list). Photos of the side view of the buses clearly show the hump in front.

[BUSANGEL#1]

Below are a few of my favorite M.A.N artic pics. One is a westbound #79 79th and the other is a northbound #29 State from 77th Garage.

Every since Chicago has had artics 77th has had them, beginning with the M.A.N artics all the way to the New Flyers. It was only recently (about 2 years ago)that they lost artics to 103rd, because #6 (an artic required route)was moved to 103rd. Rosters have already been mentioned for the NABI and New Flyers. I doubt anyone has a roster for the M.A.N's.

[BusHunter]

Below are a few of my favorite M.A.N artic pics. One is a westbound #79 79th and the other is a northbound #29 State from 77th Garage.

I have a roster for the M.A.N.'s. 77th didn't always have artics. 77th did receive them in 1982, but when 103rd opened in 1988 the artics went there. Then 77th had no artics until the #7300 Seattle artics came along. For a long stretch in the early 90's it was basically #7100-#7129 (North Park) #7130-#7164 (Archer) #7165-#7224 (103rd). The #7000's were always at North Park, except when they first came in, in 1979, when the #7000 fleet was spread around at local garages to gauge input.

[Busjack]

I have a roster for the M.A.N.'s. 77th didn't always have artics. 77th did receive them in 1982, but when 103rd opened in 1988 the artics went there. Then 77th had no artics until the #7300 Seattle artics came along. For a long stretch in the early 90's it was basically #7100-#7129 (North Park) #7130-#7164 (Archer) #7165-#7224 (103rd). The #7000's were always at North Park, except when they first came in, in 1979, when the #7000 fleet was spread around at local garages to gauge input.

Don't know about the originals, but there was a short time when 7300s went to 77 after NP and 103 got NABIs.

[BUSANGEL#1]

That sounds right because #14 South Lake Shore was created in 1982, but then I wonder what was used on the #6 Jeffery Express. 77th had both routes before 103rd opened, so I assume 77th had to have artics before 1982 at least for #6 or maybe #2.

I have a roster for the M.A.N.'s. 77th didn't always have artics. 77th did receive them in 1982, but when 103rd opened in 1988 the artics went there. Then 77th had no artics until the #7300 Seattle artics came along. For a long stretch in the early 90's it was basically #7100-#7129 (North Park) #7130-#7164 (Archer) #7165-#7224 (103rd). The #7000's were always at North Park, except when they first came in, in 1979, when the #7000 fleet was spread around at local garages to gauge input.

[BusHunter]

Well if North Park takes on #77 Belmont to help Forest Glen with the de-crowding plan, they might need additional articulated buses. Belmont is one of the highest volume bus routes when it turns onto Kimball and heads over to the Blue Line Subway station to pick up passengers... it's like half the city boards your bus relentlessly!!! I was one of the unfortunate ones on a 6000-Series Flxible once on Belmont, and when we got to the Subway, there had to be 30-50 people board our bus, taking all the seats, all the standing room and even standing on the stars in the front up against the door!!! It was a nightmare trying to exit the bus when you got to your stop. I doubt the CTA will be dumb enough to assign 77th or 103rd to cover a route that far north from the garage. North Park is the north side articulated bus garage, with Kedzie being the other, although it's located on S. Pulaski, which is a lot longer of a run for a articulated to come from there to cover Belmont. With North Park covering X98 Avon Express, #22 Clark, #50 Damen, #82 Kimball/Homan, #146 Inner Drive Express, #147 Outer Drive Express, #151 Sheridan, #152 Addison, #154 Wrigley Field Express, that already spreads the articulated supply. Now if you include in some of Forest Glen's busiest, high-volume routes like #56 Milwaukee, #74 Fullerton, #77 Belmont, #78 Montrose, #80 Irving Park, and #81 Lawrence, there's 15 routes that are high volume that require articulated buses. 100 sound like a lot, but divided into those 15 routes that comes to about 7 buses/route... That's insufficent, especially if some buses are out of service for repairs.

Again, we'll see what the CTA does with these articulateds that will start to come in around November and December, but I'm thinking North Park, Kedzie will get the DE60LFR's first, with 103rd getting some of their DE60LF's for the Jeffrey Jump project and the Red Line Rehabilitation project due to start in Spring, 2013. Remember, only these three garages are capable of storing and maintaining the 60' buses right now, the other garages have to be overhauled to store and maintain these larger vehicles.

I think what may happen as far as the North side is that Chicago garage will be equipped to handle artics and they will share with Fg on Belmont. If not there's always Kedzie. North Park would have to handle the stuff most likely Irving Pk and north of that. Fg would have to be spread around to do some of Chicago's and North Park's territory. On the south side, 77th would have to share with 74th, because I think they just can't handle an artic demand for the #9, #55 and #63. Because the artic fleet total will double, I see alot of garages close to doubling there artic fleet total, (except maybe North Park) and some places like Chicago and 74th with a smaller artic fleet. It should get really interesting after the Ryan gets done.

[Busjack]

That sounds right because #14 South Lake Shore was created in 1982, but then I wonder what was used on the #6 Jeffery Express. 77th had both routes before 103rd opened, so I assume 77th had to have artics before 1982 at least for #6 or maybe #2.

The artics were on Jeffery Express. It was noted that 52nd garage closed in 1983, just when the 7100s showed up, and the assumption was that 52nd couldn't handle the artics. Bill V. has 6 out of 77 from 1983 to 1988.

[Busjack]

I think what may happen as far as the North side is that Chicago garage will be equipped to handle artics and they will share with Fg on Belmont. ... I see alot of garages close to doubling there artic fleet total, (except maybe North Park) and some places like Chicago and 74th with a smaller artic fleet. It should get really interesting after the Ryan gets done.

It was reported here (correctly) that Chicago had the 7100 series artics when the 23 Washington-Green Line replacement was running.

And there is the garage refurbishment project.

[geneking7320]

Friday (10/5/2012) I just missed a southbound New Flyer artic on Michigan at Jackson working route 3 King Drive. I hadn't seen artic on that route in some time. Is indicative of a shift at 77th garage? I think it was a 4000.

Gene King

[geneking7320]

OOPS! After I posted here I went to the moves thread where others noted artics on #3 King Dr. :P

[cta5658]

any update on when the first delivery will happen?