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Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

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(starting a new thread since this topic really didn't fit under the Red-Purple Modernization thread)

It looks like the Dan Ryan branch track project is going to roll out as someone else originally projected many weeks ago – a complete shutdown of the south branch of the Red Line from just south of Roosevelt to 95th. Subsequent to that post, I had heard that the CTA was going to offer a second option of weekend-only work for 4 years, but that the preferred plan was the complete 5-month shutdown. They had decided to present the second, weekend-only option, in order to give the appearance that they were offering the community and aldermen an option.

Well, it now looks like the weekend-only closures option is not seriously being considered. They are going with the complete shutdown plan. The complete Dan Ryan branch shutdown will begin in spring 2013 and last through the summer.

The details are basically as Mayfield laid out weeks ago:

  • Red Line will shut down completely from south of Roosevelt station to 95th in spring 2013
  • The shutdown will continue for 5 months
  • Southbound Red line trains will be rerouted to Green line tracks after stopping at Roosevelt and will serve all Green line stops to Ashland/63rd
  • Express bus shuttles will run from Garfield Green station to 63rd, 69th, 79, 87th, and 95th Red.
  • there will be other additional supplemental bus service


One thing that changed since Mayfield outlined this plan is that the CTA intends to offer some free and discounted fares to some riders affected by the shutdown. This helped to ensure the support of the aldermen, at least in one office I am aware of. Not sure of the extent of these free fares. This is still under discussion. I heard possibly free shuttle buses and free fares boarding at Garfield Greenline station.

Also, the CTA has reached out to and received the support of the Chicago Urban League (for support on hiring issues?). As I hear it, the big selling point is the number of jobs this project will create.

This information is for your information and discussion. I have no official proof I will post, and no official sources I will identify. Doing so would probably cut off my source of info.
.

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This information is for your information and discussion. I have no official proof I will post, and no official sources I will identify. Doing so would probably cut off my source of info.

.

Why??? As I indicated before, your or their bosses know who they or you are.

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(starting a new thread since this topic really didn't fit under the Red-Purple Modernization thread)

It looks like the Dan Ryan branch track project is going to roll out as someone else originally projected many weeks ago – a complete shutdown of the south branch of the Red Line from just south of Roosevelt to 95th. Subsequent to that post, I had heard that the CTA was going to offer a second option of weekend-only work for 4 years, but that the preferred plan was the complete 5-month shutdown. They had decided to present the second, weekend-only option, in order to give the appearance that they were offering the community and aldermen an option.

Well, it now looks like the weekend-only closures option is not seriously being considered. They are going with the complete shutdown plan. The complete Dan Ryan branch shutdown will begin in spring 2013 and last through the summer.

The details are basically as Mayfield laid out weeks ago:

  • Red Line will shut down completely from south of Roosevelt station to 95th in spring 2013
  • The shutdown will continue for 5 months
  • [southbound Red line trains will be rerouted to Green line tracks after stopping at Roosevelt and will serve all Green line stops to Ashland/63rd
  • Express bus shuttles will run from Garfield Green station to 63rd, 69th, 79, 87th, and 95th Red.
  • there will be other additional supplemental bus service


One thing that changed since Mayfield outlined this plan is that the CTA intends to offer some free and discounted fares to some riders affected by the shutdown. This helped to ensure the support of the aldermen, at least in one office I am aware of. Not sure of the extent of these free fares. This is still under discussion. I heard possibly free shuttle buses and free fares boarding at Garfield Greenline station.

Also, the CTA has reached out to and received the support of the Chicago Urban League (for support on hiring issues?). As I hear it, the big selling point is the number of jobs this project will create.

This information is for your information and discussion. I have no official proof I will post, and no official sources I will identify. Doing so would probably cut off my source of info.
.



Since I have heard discussion about this plan from sources other than this board, all your info rings true. The CTA has posted a Notice of Prequalification for General Contractors and Track Subcontractors for Dan Ryan (Red Line) Track Renewal Project (REVISED) since early May. Yes, one would have to register to download the prequalification package. ;-)

According to the prequalification package, almost 60 people attended the pre-bid meeting, some from major players in the public works realm (Parsons, Kiewit, PB, Paschen, Walsh) and some from local advocacy/consulting agencies (HACIA, Chicago Urban League, Reyes Group). There was even at least one representative from an elected official's office (a representative from Bobby Rush's office).

It seems to me very plausible that information about the project is leaking out given the large number of people who have information about it.

Although a cursory read didn't reveal a schedule for the actual construction work, I did note a timeline about the contract schedule.

Anticipated Schedule:

  • May 2012 - Issue request for Qualifications

  • May 2012 - Date Statements of Qualifications due

  • June 2012- Notification of pre-qualification

  • June/July 2012 -Invitation for Bids from prequalified bidders

  • August 2012 - Bids due

  • September 2012 - Approximate notice to proceed

Given the pool of people who know about the plan for this project, I won't make any spurious judgments about how you received this info. I wouldn't reveal my source either. ;-) Thanks for sharing.

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The 13th St. Incline and the 17th St. junction will see increased train service not experienced in nearly 20 years. I hope the CTA prepares accordingly, though I wouldn't be surprised if the junction has problems and provides more reason to anger south side residents.

This might also mean we could see regular use of the storage tracks west of Ashland/63rd. The Snowflake Special of 2010 tried using them but the switch didn't work.

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Well, Roe Conn just said it.

Let's see how long this stands up.

Also, with regard to the debate sam and I had on the CTA Tattler, they are now trying to distinguish this from the prior project, but I don't think successfully.

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Why are you doubting this?

If you are referring to the second paragraph, if nothing else, Metra last year announced a single track on the UP-N line, but took that back a week after people, primarily in Evanston squawked.

As I have indicated in prior responses to this topic, I don't think that the aldercreatures and preachers on the south side are going to take this sitting down. However, unlike the UP-N situation, there apparently isn't enough alternative right of way to take care of the people south of Garfield. I think that CTA is going to have to do more to placate them (especially the Pace riders transferring at 95th).

The CTA release said at the bottom:

Will the public have a chance for input on the project/process?

Yes. There will be a series of public meetings to discuss the plan and its improvements to the Red Line, service implications and other issues. Those meetings will begin this spring.

Maybe, as usual, this is lip service, but I think that the protesters will turn out.

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Metra started the one track timetable and it degenerated into chaos almost immediately and was abandoned. Yes the people in Evanston squawked but only after the timetable had started and it was proven not to work.

If you are referring to the second paragraph, if nothing else, Metra last year announced a single track on the UP-N line, but took that back a week after people, primarily in Evanston squawked.

As I have indicated in prior responses to this topic, I don't think that the aldercreatures and preachers on the south side are going to take this sitting down. However, unlike the UP-N situation, there apparently isn't enough alternative right of way to take care of the people south of Garfield. I think that CTA is going to have to do more to placate them (especially the Pace riders transferring at 95th).

The CTA release said at the bottom:

Maybe, as usual, this is lip service, but I think that the protesters will turn out.

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Metra started the one track timetable and it degenerated into chaos almost immediately and was abandoned. Yes the people in Evanston squawked but only after the timetable had started and it was proven not to work.

The question is gonna be how well this works. I guess we'll know a year from now.

But now that this is official, I still don't think that the south side is going to sit there mute.And I think that the people in Evanston complained beforehand, and then told Metra "I told you so," but that isn't worth documenting now

Update: BTW you know that Mike Payne is going to chime in, but probably for nougat (or naught).

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According to the Sun-Times, the Red Line will operate on Green Line tracks starting at Roosevelt....is that even possible???

There is the ramp from the State St. Subway to the South Side main south of there. In fact, that's how Howard-Jackson Pk-Englewood trains operated until the subway was built to Clark & 18th.

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According to the Sun-Times, the Red Line will operate on Green Line tracks starting at Roosevelt....is that even possible???

Not without the trains having already been on the track by not switching tracks to stay on the elevated south of Fullerton. So the reporter obviously has little riding experience with CTA and mistyped since the trains would be on Green line tracks south of Roosevelt. And yes we'll see how long they think throwing this out will fly and not expect the South Side to put up a HUGE fuss about this, not to mention Pace riders who switch to the Red at 95th. Those Pace riding folks will not want to be on a bus north of 95th, no matter how close the CTA has those shuttles hugging the Dan Ryan up to Garfield. Nor will they want to be on those trains ooperating on the Green Line tracks by virtue of them operating through Englewood on that Ashland Branch into downtown.

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...So the reporter obviously has little riding experience with CTA and mistyped since the trains would be on Green line tracks south of Roosevelt....

If anyone expected precision from the media, that would be a first.

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If anyone expected precision from the media, that would be a first.

When they actually give transit information precisely as any of the transit boards say it will occur is when I'm surprised and raise my eyebrows. This after all is the same media that uses old footage of Americanas when doing a generic story about the CTA and only uses current buses if one of those buses found itself in an accident or affected by some other traffic issue. :D

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Several observations:

1) They say now a track rehab is a prerequisite to running the 5000's. Had they gone with several years of weekends, they would not have run the new cars on the Red, which contradicts everything we have heard about the deployment and pecking order of lines getting there 5K's.

2) Running the Red to 63rd will require less equipment than running to 95th.

3) Truncating some Lake Greens at the Loop means less equipment in use.

4) 2) & 3) above could mean a mass scrapping of surplus 2400 and 2600's prior to replacements by 5000's at the start of the project, then play catch-up during the project. They may have trouble finding a place to put all those cars with a yard inaccessible for several months.

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I'm curious now that this project has been made public as to how soon we will see some smaller projects taking place to build up to the big project. I wonder if maybe a small portion of the 61st Street upper yard will be reactivated to help Green Line storage, if upgrades will be made to Racine for storing the additional Red Line equipment and will the 59th signal junction be upgraded.

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Several observations:

1) They say now a track rehab is a prerequisite to running the 5000's. Had they gone with several years of weekends, they would not have run the new cars on the Red, which contradicts everything we have heard about the deployment and pecking order of lines getting there 5K's.

2) Running the Red to 63rd will require less equipment than running to 95th.

3) Truncating some Lake Greens at the Loop means less equipment in use.

4) 2) & 3) above could mean a mass scrapping of surplus 2400 and 2600's prior to replacements by 5000's at the start of the project, then play catch-up during the project. They may have trouble finding a place to put all those cars with a yard inaccessible for several months.

One other thing I noticed besides your first observation, is that they throw in if they went with the weekend only plan they would need smaller work crews and it would mean less jobs, obviously laying it on thick to get the alderman and south side preachers to go along with this.

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This is the opposite of the UP north problem though. Metra implemented a bad 1 track work around that did nothing to speed up the project. It was a poorly implemented schedule that tried to keep the tracks open and amounted to an 8 year construction project. So passengers were faced with 8 years of a horrendous schedule. This is much more analogous to the 4 year red line schedule. Sure they will keep it open but it will be a huge inconvenience. Sure UP North was open but it was a huge inconvenience.

Now Metra had the benefit of being able to do it without any delays from normal operation. CTA does not. Therefore people will be faced with the choice of a long drawn out pain or a temporary complete shutdown. Give people the end date and tell them their misery is only temporary, they will be much more likely to support a short but extreme difficulty over a protracted one. I can find alternate transportation for 5 months, 4 years or 8 years, that is a lot more difficult.

In short this would be similar if Metra said we can either do a complete 1 year shutdown of the entire line or we can do a crappy 1 track solution over 8 years. They chose the long but open option and it failed.

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I smell Green Line 1996 on this project. They inform you early, tell you that it's gonna open on time and then the Holiday season comes and the Red Line Dan Ryan is still closed. I pray and hope the CTA listens this time instead of doing what the CTA wants to do, this will be a very interesting time for the CTA, will it gain customers trust or lead them to mis-trust and unanswered questions until the Dan Ryan reopens?

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I smell Green Line 1996 on this project. They inform you early, tell you that it's gonna open on time and then the Holiday season comes and the Red Line Dan Ryan is still closed. I pray and hope the CTA listens this time instead of doing what the CTA wants to do, this will be a very interesting time for the CTA, will it gain customers trust or lead them to mis-trust and unanswered questions until the Dan Ryan reopens?

What makes it more interesting is that people still remember the Green Line project and that the CTA promised that the East 63rd, formerly called Jackson Park, Branch would extend all the way to the Stony Island area until a certain preacher saw that as his chance to get it cut all the way back to Cottage Grove instead because of his owning a lot of property through there. So you have not only the trust factor of will they reopen it on time but will it reopen with all stations intact in some of those folks' minds. Now while I think the Red Line ridership numbers compared to the Green has more in its favor that all the stations will be back, that question will still run through some of those folks minds of will the CTA use that project as their chance to cut out stations.

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Exactly, i mean they cut the Green Line to Cottage Grove with out notice after leaving the structure up for over a year after the Green Line reopened. Another question is, is this another way to eliminate Night Owl service on the Red Line, will either 63 or 69 be closed for good, they claim that 3 stations will become ADA certified but you just have to wonder:Do I Smell a 1996 happening again? Also, why is it that the southside lines get the full shut down, but the Brown and Blue Cermak Branch (Pink) didnt get full shut downs (Blue Cermak Branch got shut down on the weekend due to the 1998 cuts and it was reasonable to complete working during that time)

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Exactly, i mean they cut the Green Line to Cottage Grove with out notice after leaving the structure up for over a year after the Green Line reopened. Another question is, is this another way to eliminate Night Owl service on the Red Line, will either 63 or 69 be closed for good, they claim that 3 stations will become ADA certified but you just have to wonder:Do I Smell a 1996 happening again? Also, why is it that the southside lines get the full shut down, but the Brown and Blue Cermak Branch (Pink) didnt get full shut downs (Blue Cermak Branch got shut down on the weekend due to the 1998 cuts and it was reasonable to complete working during that time)

My understanding is those Green Line stations south of Roosevelt to Ashland/63rd would see 24 hour service since the Red Line is a 24 hr route, and that would leave the Blue Line alone in 24 hour operation on the rail side if the didn't, but yes that have to pass that smell test. I agree on that. One other observation is they say they are giving 50 cent discount fares on the bus routes in the affected area, another way to entice folks to go along with this wild plan. Between the North Side Main seeing station refurbishment and this Dan Ryan project, the Red Line is indeed goiing to be a headache for people the next couple years.

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