Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[CURRENTZ_09]

What you don't realize is that transit in Chicago is not run by transit professionals, but by politicians. Forrest Claypool was a Cook County Commissioner who twice tried to win Board Presidency and lost. I think he also was Chicago Park District Superintendent. Terry Peterson was Chicago Housing Authority Superintendent, and I forget what he did before that.. Huberman, before Claypool, was a Chicago Public School Superinten. Get the idea? The agency is a recycling playground for political hacks who are loyal to the mayor and are good at lobbying Springfield for money All of these agencies are breeding grounds for politicos so they can collect multiple pensions. Its not what you know but who you know.

Peterson is put out there to take the heat from the mostly Black audience that is angry with CTA. He portrays himself like he's like one of them (us), but the public is not buying that act, hence the rolled eyes you referred to. To the audience, he is a politican following the company line. Welcome to Chicago, the city that works for those who work the city over

I'm aware of this now, i enjoyed the slide show they placed and i see that pastor over in Jackson Park still got some tricks in his sleves too, this should be an interesting debate for CTA customers. Just when i thought the best of Forrest, he showed his butt off tonight, i was very shocked

[artthouwill]

As far as folks bemoaning the "race card" being pulled, race may not necessarily be a part of this and the Red Line does have to be redone on the ENTIRE line, Howard on down to 95th, it's all in the optics created and CTA's historical optics aren't good. So the gentleman perceiving things as he did as far as previous projects are concerned are valid for him even if you don't agree with his assessment. Plus they do have to cross that hurdle that they did work on the south end of the Red Line not so long ago, Green Line rebuild history aside. And while we aren't in the midst of Jim Crow, we aren't in an era where we all sing Kumbaya either so referring to aldermen as creatures and otherwise less than human does little to keep the flames from fanning as much as race would serve to fan them. Nor does belittling a community's, not all of which is black by the way even if the neighborhoods served by the Dan Ryan section are predominately black, seeing less incentive in riding a bus than taking a train and therefore seeing a bus less attractive. That's true of the north side area where I now reside unless one is going to one of the various shops or restaurants found across the north side. That being said, the CTA better take this as a chance to redeem themselves of previous bad blood of past projects and actually come up with alternatives that actually are as little a headache as possible and not just pay lip service that they are concerned with folks' concerns at adjusting to the admittedly needed work. And no those shuttle buses don't necessarily cut it when they would still have to contend with Dan Ryan Expressway rush hour traffic to get to the Garfield Green Line station. Yeah Hilkevitch killed the theory that they would use State Street when he hinted at them on the Dan Ryan when he ran through that hypothetical morning rush hour scenario with CTA relying heavily on the bus shuttles.

I forgot to mention the other night that Claypool said CTA was talking to IDOT about a possible express lane on rhe Ryan for those shuttle buses. First, the driving public would have a fit for losing even one lane of traffic to buses in rush hour. Even if they proposed the right shoulder for CTA use during rush periods, there are enough stretches with no or very little shoulder to make it unworkable.

Too bad the old original Circle Line was not feasible, it would've come in handy now. To refresh, the original Line was to run via the Red Line from 87th to 63rd, then the Ashland/63rd branch Green Line to about Leavitt, then run northward until it joined the Orange Line to near Paulina. Then it would run northward until it joined the Pink Line. Near Lake Street, the Circle would continue north along the old Humboldt Park Line to Division, then rurn eastward via a subway terminating at North/Clybourn. That got.scaled back to a circulator which would run bidirectional running Red Line btween Nort/Clyourn and Roosevelt, then the 13th incline, then follow Orange Line to Ashland, then nortward on route described above to North/Clybourn..

Now imagine the Red Line being rerouted via the original Circle Line. While the rote woyld take a bit longer, work could take place between 63rd and Chinatown uninterrupted AND no shuttles woyld be necessary for half of the project. Two and a half months of shuttle buses would be better than five And the CTA would have a way to route trains around without much difficulty.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Look, when the bid is done for this project, this project will be as is, there is no adjustments or any opinion that is going to change that. Hell, they even lied and said that this project wasnt using federal money, then someone asked them to look at the handout they presented and it stated clearly that the project has some federal funding for it, leading the crowd into an extreme uproar. I am very shocked by the performance of CTA management, how they toyed with each speaker and didn't listen one bit. I will give credit to the bus manager that actually listened to the lady about the 24 Wentworth being extended fulltime and possibliy making that 24 hour service during the project, a note that even Forrest and Terry had to agree on. But other than that, it seemed that many union workers were there and weren't buying the dream. I felt a sense of community outrage about transit services that are vital to the South Side riders. Now, will the CTA work with South Side Alderman, community based job centers and outreach centers, most likely not, but will the people voice their opinion about their Dan Ryan, yes and they are gonna do it with a strong fight. I remember an elder Woman spoke and she was from the north side and she was outraged what was happening to the south end of the Red Line. This could truly united riders and race relations in a city that seems put together on the outside, but dig a little deep and the roots of division is still there. What shame that actually a good network of Transit services (with some stink faces in the room, now smiling nervoiusly) be brung down by the politics of CTA authority figures

[Busjack]

I forgot to mention the other night that Claypool said CTA was talking to IDOT about a possible express lane on rhe Ryan for those shuttle buses. First, the driving public would have a fit for losing even one lane of traffic to buses in rush hour. Even if they proposed the right shoulder for CTA use during rush periods, there are enough stretches with no or very little shoulder to make it unworkable.

There was the project in 2005 that added the extra lane to the Dan Ryan. IIRC, and I do, that was the same time as the trains were on the shoulder. So, Claypool should be grateful that that project didn't fall apart as soon as the CTA one did.

Theoretically one could negotiate back that lane, but I agree with you that it won't happen. Also, the land for constructing that lane was the result of terminating the shoulders at the overpasses, so unlike the Stevenson, where the shoulders were intentionally made wide enough, that doesn't exist on the Ryan.

Again, what I find comical is that Claypool claims to know who the heads of IDOT, and especially Metra are. Maybe someday he will find out who the head of Pace is.

[jtrosario]

Went to the meeting last night, missed the 15 minute presentation, and stayed for about 2 hours of questions and comments.

As far as improvements, there seemed to be interest or comments from Claypool and others on the following:

- 24 Wentworth - Increasing capacity, possible 24/7 hour service, possible connection to Roosevelt. All 3 mentioned during 5-month Red rebuild only. (Two commenters in a row spoke about these ideas and they seemed to be received positively and/or under consideration)

- Comment about working out details with IDOT for dedicated lanes for CTA buses on the Dan Ryan so that express buses would NOT sit in traffic between 95th and Garfield.

- Comment about an announcement 'Soon' with Metra concerning this project regarding taking "the same media you use now to pay for CTA rides" and being able to board Metra trains. (I thought it was referencing specific travel by bus to 95th so I took it as specific Metra stations to accept CTA fare media for transfers during the 5-month Red rebuild - it also seemed worded so that PACE fare media would be accepted at the same Metra stations)

In other areas, they seemed very interested in assisting anyone to communicate better about the project, and about anything they can do "within the law" to provide jobs to the local community (after jabbing Republicans for changing previously laws), and specifically to assist anyone who got up to speak to put them in direct connection with the right person who could help. (Although one lady, when presented with assistance then said she didn't mean herself - she meant rhetorically)

Also a comment about "soon" announcing " the rest of the funding for the 95th station expansion - separate project with separate funding, expected to happen in 2014.

Tone of the crowd: overall respectful of each other with a minimum of outbursts, with 1/3 to 1/2 of the 90-100 clapping for what I'll call the "us against them" speeches and the rest listening carefully and/or waiting for their turn to speak.

Thanks, CURRENTZ_09, I could not believe it myself when hearing the complaint about how terrible communications were to find out about the meeting - she ONLY happened to find out about it because of the posted fliers in her Red Line station.

My favorite was the frail little old (white) lady from the Northside who spoke and got louder to a scream and swear mode - it was more funny because the people next to me were hysterically laughing and asked each other - "Did she just pull the RACE card?" And after that card was out it was used again by others.

[Busjack]

...

My favorite was the frail little old (white) lady from the Northside who spoke and got louder to a scream and swear mode - it was more funny because the people next to me were hysterically laughing and asked each other - "Did she just pull the RACE card?" And after that card was out it was used again by others.

Well, somehow she got to 63rd and Halsted.

Thanks for the recap.

[jtrosario]

In addition to the express bus and Local Bus routing that's been mentioned here before, the following is from the Red Ahead handout - rtr Red South Track Renewal - Red Line South Alternative Travel Options-Spring/Summer 2013:

- Other Supplemental Bus Service: CTA will offer other shuttle buses and supplemental bus services to help facilitate customer travel. They include:

. A shuttle bus between Roosevelt and Cermak-Chinatown

. An extension of the #51 51st bus route to connect to the Green Line

. An extension of the #71 71st/South Shore and #30 South Chicago bus routes to connect to the Green Line

. Supplemental east-west bus service connecting to the Green Line

- Supplemental Bus Service to Green Line: CTA will provide expanded service to Green Line stations and north-south streets, including:

. #9 Ashland

. #44 Wallace/Racine

. #8A South Halsted

. #29 State

. #3 King Drive

. #4 Cottage Grove

-Supplemental Bus Service to Downtown: Additional service on South Lake Shore express routes, including the #14 Jeffery Express and #26 South Shore Express

[Busjack]

. An extension of the #51 51st bus route to connect to the Green Line

For that matter, they may as well cancel the 15, 39, and 43 connections to the Red Line. And then consider whether to cancel them permanently.

59 not mentioned? (I was thinking about the existing loop to the Garfield Red Line station.)

. An extension of the #71 71st/South Shore and #30 South Chicago bus routes to connect to the Green Line

This was mentioned earlier, but any indication to which station?

[jtrosario]

This was mentioned earlier, but any indication to which station?

No specifics, just quoting sections of the Red Ahead handout verbatim for those that weren't able to go to the meeting and get one, and that I've not seen in online news sources so far.

[CURRENTZ_09]

No specifics, just quoting sections of the Red Ahead handout verbatim for those that weren't able to go to the meeting and get one, and that I've not seen in online news sources so far.

Those handouts where a joke, they could have made a detailed pamphlet using the information posted online to give the public more understanding about the project, that way when i have questions, then i refer back to this page or that page to answer my questions. That flyer was cheap, they could have printed that on CTA official paper, just goes to show that even that little touch means a lot to the community

[See Tea Eh]

Those handouts where a joke, they could have made a detailed pamphlet using the information posted online to give the public more understanding about the project, that way when i have questions, then i refer back to this page or that page to answer my questions. That flyer was cheap, they could have printed that on CTA official paper, just goes to show that even that little touch means a lot to the community

Oh, for Pete's sake. You're complaining just to complain.

Bitching because it wasn't on "CTA official paper" (whatever the hell that is)? Please.

[jajuan]

Oh, for Pete's sake. You're complaining just to complain.

Bitching because it wasn't on "CTA official paper" (whatever the hell that is)? Please.

How about this, they're not taking people's concerns about what quick aternatives will be available that won't see them having double the travel time into downtown seriously yet they want them to just swallow this project one way or the other. Is that good enough for you?

[Kimball401]

The Lake street line was one of the oldest lines in the system. The shutdown of the Green line was necessary because of the state it was in. Just because those lines were shut down does not prove that this had anything to do with race. There is no evidence to substantiate that, unless you have something! Yes the race issue will never go away because of small minded people like that gentleman who made the remark at the forum. It has no room here or anywhere! I will say this is not about race! You know it and I know it! This is about improving our transit system, whats wrong with that? Who cares that the man's comment got a big applause? That does nothing to improve our system. If the Red Line temporary closure is not the answer then what would you recommend? Give me your ideas!

The Lake street line is the oldest line in the system. And the shutdown like you said isnt racist on any level and you didn't offend me or any african american transit enthusiasts. But within time the dan ryan will be restored to its orininal beauty

[chicagopcclcar]

The Lake street line is the oldest line in the system. And the shutdown like you said isnt racist on any level and you didn't offend me or any african american transit enthusiasts. But within time the dan ryan will be restored to its orininal beauty

Sorry, but that is not correct. The Lake Street 'L' is not the oldest. The South Side Rapid Transit 'L' is the oldest. It opened for revenue service between Congress and 39th St. on June 6, 1892. The South Side extended service in several stages, to 47th St., to 55th St. and by January 22, 1893, to 61st St. The South Side reached the Worlds Fair in Jackson Park by May 12, 1893.

The Lake Street Elevated opened revenue service from Market St. (Wacker Drive) to Homan Ave. on November 6, 1893.

David Harrison

[chicagopcclcar]

Went to the meeting last night, missed the 15 minute presentation, and stayed for about 2 hours of questions and comments.

Tone of the crowd: overall respectful of each other with a minimum of outbursts, with 1/3 to 1/2 of the 90-100 clapping for what I'll call the "us against them" speeches and the rest listening carefully and/or waiting for their turn to speak.

My favorite was the frail little old (white) lady from the Northside who spoke and got louder to a scream and swear mode - it was more funny because the people next to me were hysterically laughing and asked each other - "Did she just pull the RACE card?" And after that card was out it was used again by others.

I too attended the meeting and I must agree with your "us against them" observation. Unfortunately only half of the speakers spoke on the Red line track project. The others spoke on whatever complaint they had against the CTA, against discrimination, against anyone they didn't trust, including the CTA president and chairman, aldermen, politicians in general, racial discriminations, discrimination by contractors, historical discrimination by unions, etc, etc. Yes, one speaker even decried slavery in the United States.

Now the little white lady from the northside added to the fire. She began with a complaint about the north side Red line project that had closed streets without any notice. She talked and later shouted to cheers from the audience. But the discussion moved to a more serious topic by accident..".would the north side Red line EVER suffer a complete shutdown?"

CTA president admitted that the north Red years from now, would need a complete rebuild of the track structure like the Red south, but that project is far off in the future. In his explanation the president admitted that in depth track work WAS being performed NOW, our little ole lady "went off" and her supporters "went wild."

Here the CTA president should have called on one of his experts....vp of rail for instance, and a correct answer could have been given to satisfy the little lady and the audience, but that didn't happen and the chance was lost.

I'll respond.....Yes, in depth track work down to the subgrade is being performed on certain weekends on the Red north and the line is not shut down entirely. But that is because the Red north is four tracks and the work is only for a block or two blocks at the most. While the work is performed on two tracks, the other two tracks carry service although trains do not servea bunch of three or more stations in one direction. The 80 blocks worth of Red south work next year is on a two-track railroad, so the luxury of the two extra tracks is not available.

So answering the querstion about the Red north years from now, that line will NOT need to be shut down to do in depth track work. And yes, when it happens that way, people will still complain "It's Race".

Not needing to be shutdown is not surprising especially when one considers how the line was built. Originally the line was a two-track steam railroad (Milwaukee RR) on the ground that had passenger service. In 1908 the 'L' agreed to run trains from Wilson Ave. to Central St. in Evanston using trolley poles. Beginning in 1914, the Milwaukee began elevating the tracks sbove the streets. When two tracks were finished, the 'L' moved upstairs and the ground level tracks were demolished. The third and fourth tracks were then constructed, making for today's four-track mainline operated by third rail. The CTA eventually bought the line.

David Harrison

[Busjack]

Sorry, but that is not correct. The Lake Street 'L' is not the oldest. The South Side Rapid Transit 'L' is the oldest. It opened for revenue service between Congress and 39th St. on June 6, 1892. ...

The Lake Street Elevated opened revenue service from Market St. (Wacker Drive) to Homan Ave. on November 6, 1893.

This hits me as correct.

The thing that gave me the biggest laugh was someone posted on a Tribune comment board in connection with the Morgan station that it was built of stainless steel to last 100 years. My instant reaction is that it was hung on a structure that would have to last 220.

The 100 years is certainly overblown, but it did hit me as a bit strange that someone decided to hang a modernistic structure on one that was 120 years old, but the article did say that the L structure was reinforced.

Don't expect a Lake Street subway (often promised, at least in the 60s and 70s) in the conceivable future. :lol:

[jajuan]

Has anyone that have gone to the public meetings been able to get clarification on if the discounted fares they propose on certain south side bus routes linking to the Red Line will 50 cents off the base fare or 50 cents flat out?

[chicagopcclcar]

50 cents off the top. Don't know how they're gonna do it though with all the different fare media.

David H.

[Busjack]

50 cents off the top. Don't know how they're gonna do it though with all the different fare media.

David H.

Good point. I can see them maybe allowing one to deposit two quarters, but one would think that a monthly pass is a monthly pass. Hence, given that one needs fare media to make a transfer without paying twice,this might be an illusion, except, say, to plunk down $.50 on the 119 and then supposedly get a free shuttle bus ride and then a free transfer at Garfield. Stored cash cards (such as the Transit mag stripe card) may be somewhere in the middle, but they would have to somehow program the Cubic card reader to take off an initial 50 cents on some buses, but $2.00 on others.

Of course, there still is an illusion, if you start your trip downtown or north, then have to transfer to the shuttle, and then to the supposed discount bus.

[qwantae]

What's going to happen with Cermak/Chinatown riders, is it going to be an Shuttle also from 35th or Roosevelt Stops to Chinatown? Since Green Line doesn't have Cermak Stop.

[Busjack]

What's going to happen with Cermak/Chinatown riders, is it going to be an Shuttle also from 35th or Roosevelt Stops to Chinatown? Since Green Line doesn't have Cermak Stop.

See this post.

[jajuan]

Why does this start to have the feel that they're just pulling ideas from the top of their heads in a mad rush to get this project off the ground? Now we agree that the Red Line needs to be repaired but even with them presenting the project a year ahead of time they are supposed to at least have their initial proposals for alternatives well thought out as far as how they will be implemented. So far what they've given is a convoluted mess with big flaws that can easily be pointed out.

[Busjack]

Why does this start to have the feel that they're just pulling ideas from the top of their heads in a mad rush to get this project off the ground? Now we agree that the Red Line needs to be repaired but even with them presenting the project a year ahead of time they are supposed to at least have their initial proposals for alternatives well thought out as far as how they will be implemented. So far what they've given is a convoluted mess with big flaws that can easily be pointed out.

Either they are (1) listening to alternatives posed at the meetings or (2) incompetent.

Lay your odds, folks.

However, I think they were taken off stride with Hilkevitch's column that the plan wasn't going to work. You'll note Molly Sullivan there stating that the plan was subject to revision, while Brian Steele was intimating that everything had been thought out.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Here is the project flyer for those who didn't attend the meetings, there are 3 in July, so hopefully more of us will attend and hopefully more information will be given then. Also, they say that behind closed doors, the CTA has a plan to convert CTA fares within Metra's fare structure, i don't know how that's going to work since Metra fares are distance based, but the deal is on the table.

Red Line Dan Ryan Project Handout.pdf

Red Line South (Effective June 4th, 2012).pdf

[artthouwill]

What's going to happen with Cermak/Chinatown riders, is it going to be an Shuttle also from 35th or Roosevelt Stops to Chinatown? Since Green Line doesn't have Cermak Stop.

Considering its.proximity to downtown, I think not. The service on 29 will get those riders either to Roosevelt or 35th, with 62 and the 24 as additional options downtown.

If I get to another public hearing, I'd like to ask what constitutes a slow zone. If it is just an area with speed restrictions,.then I want to know what CTA plans to do concerning the Green Line between Roosevelt and 35th and between 58th and 63rd/Halsted. I especially want to know about the 13th St incline. For one, when Red Line trains get routed that way, they creep and stop, no more than 6 to 10 mph. Maybe its the weeds now growing on the concrete bed from the tunnel to where the concrete embankment meets the steel structure halfway up. I would think Red Line riders inconvenienced by shuttles and reroutes would be irate to endure more slow zones. With the.SSM poised to get a heavy pounding, it won't be long before it will need track and tie replacement. I don't believe the 13th incline has been touched during any Red or Green Line rehab projects.