Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[Busjack]

I am not PCC answered yourquestion, he was at the meeting with me. Like i stated before i do meet and greets with other transit observers.

At least this becomes clearer.

Either CTA checks for credentials, and since you don't qualify, you don't get in.

However, it may be like with regard to checking out RFPs or buses to go on a joyride, meaning that they won't, and you get to post. At least unlike others here, you are honest about your intentions, so if they want you to leak, at least they know it.

In any event, the purpose of the meeting is going to be so that CTA avoids the stink that Metra had in the same neighborhood about employing people from the neighborhood (Tribune story).

[Mike Payne]

chicagopcclcar posted a very interesting article about the IC/MED Suburban service on the Chicago Transit Forum: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CHICAGOTRANSIT/message/63468

Thanks David

[CURRENTZ_09]

So at this point, the CTA is with the contractors of the project, sorting out details of this project and will be final during August, so the next community meetings i project will be in late August-September or even later in the Fall before we hear anymore details about this project

[Busjack]

So at this point, the CTA is with the contractors of the project, sorting out details of this project and will be final during August, so the next community meetings i project will be in late August-September or even later in the Fall before we hear anymore details about this project

Might be the case, but I figure that the biggest holdup to holding a final meeting is getting the deal with Metra they promised.

In the meantime, there was the column in Monday's Tribune that even the game theory people say the biggest problem with transit around here is that the agencies don't cooperate.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Any updates about the Red Line South. Its almost a month and nothing new has been addressed, even the website is giving BLAH, BLAH.

[Busjack]

Only thing new in the News Release indicated on the home page is that 71 will go to Garfield (so others were right and I was half right there--but, no mention of 30), more service on NS lines that intersect the Green Line, including 8A going to 63rd, and more supervision.

Of course, nothing about cooperating with Metra.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Any updates about the Red Line South. Its almost a month and nothing new has been addressed, even the website is giving BLAH, BLAH.

New Details about the Red Line South Project is released, some we have addressed already on this post, others have been discussed at the Community Meetings and More will be answered as we go along with the lengthy process of the 5-Month Shutdown in Spring 2012.

(All Information is provided by the Chicago Transit Authority on August 16th 2012)

Feedback from CTA riders and community residents has been incorporated into plans for several elements of the project, from service levels to community outreach. Since announcing the Red Line South project in early June, the CTA has held three large-scale public hearings along with numerous smaller community meetings in neighborhoods throughout the project area. CTA has also worked closely with elected officials to solicit community feedback and better understand concerns.

Among the areas where CTA will be developing or expanding plans based on feedback:

1. Shuttle bus service – CTA has added a shuttle bus between Roosevelt and Cermak/Chinatown to better facilitate travel between those stations
2. Expanded bus service – CTA plans to further augment plans for additional bus service along some major bus routes, such as the #24 Wentworth, #9 Ashland, #44 Wallace/Racine, #3 King Drive and #4 Cottage Grove. Additionally, some operating hours will be lengthened.
3. Changes to bus routes -- #8A will extend to the Halsted Green Line station and #71 71st South Shore will extend to Garfield Green Line station, providing more convenient connections
4. Safety/security – CTA is developing a comprehensive public safety plan for rail and bus service during the reconstruction period, working closely the Chicago Police Department and Office of Emergency Management and Communications.
5. Supervision – CTA will implement 24-hour supervision of the free bus shuttles, resulting in smoother service and better assistance to customers
6. Traffic management – to help ensure smooth traffic flow, CTA will work to develop a strong traffic-management plan for both vehicles and pedestrians.
7. Community outreach – CTA is expanding its community outreach plan to provide project information to businesses, chambers of commerce, and others groups and organizations. Information will be tailored to specific areas.

Community meetings will continue throughout the remainder of 2012, providing the opportunity for additional feedback and suggestions about the project. Beginning in May 2013, the Red Line South project will completely rebuild the 10 miles of the line from just north of Cermak-Chinatown to 95th Street.

So Dont Forget, tell Everyone you know, The CTA Red Line South 5-Month Shutdown begins MAY 2013

Also, they have seem to address the Route 24 Wentworth problem, but we won't know how they are planning that until the series of Community Meetings. Please go out and address the issues at hand with this project. Do not attend these Red Line South Communtiy Meetings thinking that the CTA will answer any questions outside the Red Line South Project, the CTA Officials will publicly embrass with no sympthay. Do ask questions about the level of service that you will get throughout the 5-months and beyond the Red Line Shutdown. If You want the 24 Wentworth to have extended service operations after the Red Line South Project, then address issues like that at the community meetings. Do not as when the new 5000-series is coming to the Red Line, the CTA will just tell you they are phasing them into the system. This all for now, lets continue this discussion and address the concerns.

[MetroShadow]

Only thing new in the News Release indicated on the home page is that 71 will go to Garfield (so others were right and I was half right there--but, no mention of 30), more service on NS lines that intersect the Green Line, including 8A going to 63rd, and more supervision.

Of course, nothing about cooperating with Metra.

Of course, why do I have this strange feeling (maybe, dreaming or foaming) that we'd have the old 42 [Halsted/Archer] return?

[Busjack]

Of course, why do I have this strange feeling (maybe, dreaming or foaming) that we'd have the old 42 [Halsted/Archer] return?

The only indication was that they mentioned 44, which ends up at the Halsted Orange Line.

Of course, 8 also connects there

Update: But that brings up my prior idea that they should have some 3 and 4 trips only run south of 63rd to encourage transfers to the Green Line. Will never happen for political reasons, though.

[mkohut]

The one thing no way is the 98th yard being out of service.I can't see all the trains in the Howard line only.Plus,i think it would be hard to get a train out of the yard to get it to Cottage Grove and 63.

[chicagopcclcar]

The one thing no way is the 98th yard being out of service.I can't see all the trains in the Howard line only.Plus,i think it would be hard to get a train out of the yard to get it to Cottage Grove and 63.

The Red line trains would use Ashland Yard along with Howard St. That's more than enough.

Green line trains to Cottage/East 63rd would use the reinstated 61st St. yard, at least for storage. There would be no Green line trains to Ashland/63rd.

David Harrison

[jajuan]

The Red line trains would use Ashland Yard along with Howard St. That's more than enough.

Green line trains to Cottage/East 63rd would use the reinstated 61st St. yard, at least for storage. There would be no Green line trains to Ashland/63rd.

David Harrison

I remember mention that some of the Green Line trains from Harlem would short turn in the Loop, so does that mean that what are currently the Ashland/63rd trips on the Green Line would be some or all of those short turn trips?

[chicagopcclcar]

I remember mention that some of the Green Line trains from Harlem would short turn in the Loop, so does that mean that what are currently the Ashland/63rd trips on the Green Line would be some or all of those short turn trips?

That sounds about right. But just replacing the Ashland Greens with Reds to Ashland wouldn't give enough capacity to the Reds so there may be more Reds to Ashland than in the current schedule. This would throw off the automatic sorting at 59th St. Junction so that tower combined with the 61st Street tower would have to be manned. If additional capacity is needed further adjustment to whatever ratios between the Reds and the Greens south of the Loop would be made. What if we reached track capacity....The new Tower 12 plant already gets trains through faster than before, but it would have to handle the looped Greens running with the Browns. 17th Street would be manned to get the crush of Reds, Greens, and Oranges through that choke point. For the five months, things would get real interesting to train watchers and Rail Control.

David Harrison

[artthouwill]

That sounds about right. But just replacing the Ashland Greens with Reds to Ashland wouldn't give enough capacity to the Reds so there may be more Reds to Ashland than in the current schedule. This would throw off the automatic sorting at 59th St. Junction so that tower combined with the 61st Street tower would have to be manned. If additional capacity is needed further adjustment to whatever ratios between the Reds and the Greens south of the Loop would be made. What if we reached track capacity....The new Tower 12 plant already gets trains through faster than before, but it would have to handle the looped Greens running with the Browns. 17th Street would be manned to get the crush of Reds, Greens, and Oranges through that choke point. For the five months, things would get real interesting to train watchers and Rail Control.

David Harrison

I think it is a tradeoff at 17th.St Tower. While there would be more Reds, there would also be less Greens, and since the Reds and Oranges wouldn't have to switch tracks, they qoyld only have to watch for half as many Green trains.

I don't think CTA thought about the inconvenience of West siders on the Green Line traveling South of Roosevelt or South side Green line riders traveling to the West side asthe intervals between trains will now double. So if I travel from Oak Park to 35th Bronzeville and I miss a Cottage Grove train, do I catch the short turn train to Roosevelt and catch the Red in the subway or wait for the next Cottage train, which could be an 18 to 24 minute wait during the day and 30 minutes late night? To me it would be best to just run all Greens through to Cottage Grove. The Green line frequency as is now won't cause that much more of a gridlock running with Red Line trains. Remember that Green Line trains share Loop tracks with Brown Line trains that have the same frequencies during rush periods that Red Line trains do.

[mkohut]

I do think another platform and set of tracks is needed at Ashland/63 to handle the amount of trains going in and out of the station during rush hour.

[chicagopcclcar]

I think it is a tradeoff at 17th.St Tower. While there would be more Reds, there would also be less Greens, and since the Reds and Oranges wouldn't have to switch tracks, they qoyld only have to watch for half as many Green trains.

I don't think CTA thought about the inconvenience of West siders on the Green Line traveling South of Roosevelt or South side Green line riders traveling to the West side asthe intervals between trains will now double. So if I travel from Oak Park to 35th Bronzeville and I miss a Cottage Grove train, do I catch the short turn train to Roosevelt and catch the Red in the subway or wait for the next Cottage train, which could be an 18 to 24 minute wait during the day and 30 minutes late night? To me it would be best to just run all Greens through to Cottage Grove. The Green line frequency as is now won't cause that much more of a gridlock running with Red Line trains. Remember that Green Line trains share Loop tracks with Brown Line trains that have the same frequencies during rush periods that Red Line trains do.

It's not quite that simple. Just like Tower 18 likes to match up nonconflicting moves....inbound Brown with Orange; outbound Pink with inbound Purple, etc. 17th St. needs to put inbound Greens through over inbound Orange so as not to delay inbound Reds. Presently its whoever gets into the track circuit first with no priority to either. Southbound, Greens will have to be put in behind Reds which might delay the Greens and following Orange. i don't know how far back 17th St. can see trains. Probably just to Roosevelt on the 'L' and the incline on the subway. If they need more info on what's coming, Tower 12 could broadcast updates and a spotter in the Roosevelt/13th tower could do the same. You are correct with Reds and Oranges, they won't conflict with each other.

As far as west siders going to south side on the Green, BLAH!!! There's not enough of them and you can't satisfy everyone. That's my 2 cents. People had to wait back when we had skip stop. They'll get over it for the five months. Plus what keeps them from riding their Cottage Green to 35th and catching a Red there??

David Harrison

[Busjack]

I think it is a tradeoff at 17th.St Tower. ...

I don't think CTA thought about the inconvenience of West siders on the Green Line traveling South of Roosevelt or South side Green line riders traveling to the West side asthe intervals between trains will now double....

I was assuming that the Green short trains would just go around the Loop. But, since you bring up that Lake to South Side riders would be inconvenienced (although those going to other than 63rd could transfer to the Red Line),* my thought would totally confuse any rider going to Lake whether to use the inner or outer Loop tracks. Is that on which you based your 17th prediction?

Heck, for that matter, if the South Side Main gets overcrowded, they could send some Red Line trains into the tunnel south of Roosevelt and turn them immediately around to Howard, if there are adequate crossovers.

____________

*In fact, I don't see too much inconvenience, since anyone going from Lake to King Dr. or Cottage Grove doesn't have the ride altered, and those going to Ashland or Halsted can transfer to the Red Line.

[chicagopcclcar]

I do think another platform and set of tracks is needed at Ashland/63 to handle the amount of trains going in and out of the station during rush hour.

That would be overkill and an awful lot of expense for just five months. Why do you think Ashland's one platform can't handle the predicted load? There are also the two tail tracks west of the platforms that can store trains. (Edit)....Like O'Hare and the two other..... CTA terminals with three tracks, Kimball and Midway, have that third track designated as the 'lay up track." This is the track used by trains that are terminating and going into the yard. At the start of rush hour, "put outs" or trains from the yard come to this third track and go into service from there.

David Harrison

[mkohut]

When you look at the frequently that is going to happen vs now.You will have trains waiting to get into the station.

[Busjack]

When you look at the frequently that is going to happen vs now.You will have trains waiting to get into the station.

In that that station was designed when it had half of the Howard trains, and ridership was much higher, the argument can be made that it is currently vastly underutilized.

Look at the description in chicago-l.org.

[MetroShadow]

When you look at the frequently that is going to happen vs now.You will have trains waiting to get into the station.

I can't buy the argument of crowding, especially since times have changed in the past 20 years. Send the trains in and out without conflicts, and minimize delays the best you can (especially out of Roosevelt and 55th).

[Busjack]

... minimize delays the best you can (especially out of Roosevelt and 55th).

The real choke point is going to be Garfield, as you imply.

According to the last ridership report, there are 37,538 average weekday boardings on the Red Line from Garfield to 95th. There are now 1,351 boardings at Garfield-Green Line. If we assume only half the increase (because inconvenienced riders will find other means), that still means an additional 18K boardings. Of course, I assume that an equal number will exit.

[ChicagoNova]

That would be overkill and an awful lot of expense for just five months. Why do you think Ashland's one platform can't handle the predicted load? There are also the two tail tracks west of the platforms that can store trains. The two CTA terminals with three tracks, Kimball and Midway, have that third track designated as the 'lay up track." This is the track used by trains that are terminating and going into the yard. At the start of rush hour, "put outs" or trains from the yard come to this third track and go into service from there.

David Harrison

You missed one other station with three tracks: O'Hare.

[chicagopcclcar]

You missed one other station with three tracks: O'Hare.

In the back of my mind was this bell ringing..........You are correct. I don't get out there very often. Last time in two years was when I worked the Holiday Train.

David Harrison

[jajuan]

That sounds about right. But just replacing the Ashland Greens with Reds to Ashland wouldn't give enough capacity to the Reds so there may be more Reds to Ashland than in the current schedule. This would throw off the automatic sorting at 59th St. Junction so that tower combined with the 61st Street tower would have to be manned. If additional capacity is needed further adjustment to whatever ratios between the Reds and the Greens south of the Loop would be made. What if we reached track capacity....The new Tower 12 plant already gets trains through faster than before, but it would have to handle the looped Greens running with the Browns. 17th Street would be manned to get the crush of Reds, Greens, and Oranges through that choke point. For the five months, things would get real interesting to train watchers and Rail Control.

David Harrison

Thanks. And I did have the thought that you back up in your response to my question that this may be a little more complicated from the track switching side of it in actual implementation than it seems on paper. As with any engineeing project, no matter how many contingencies you plan out on paper to make things go as smoothly as you can, you still find you'll have to tweek something here and there along the way. As for west to south commuting south of the Loop, yes there was going to be the need to switch from Green to Red at any rate and agree that the Red Line handling the Ashland/63rd trips isn't too much an inconvenience. Plus a lot of west to south commuters currently prefer making it to either an Ashland or Halsted bus and taking those buses straight to 63rd Street and beyond rather than looping through downtown on the train to get there because they look at it as going out of their way from the standpoint that they would be passing Ashland and Halsted on the train when the 8 and 9 can get them to 63rd without having to go through downtown. A lot of them only take the Green Line to 63rd on the Ashland branch of the line if they're already downtown. Otherwise they make it to Ashland or Halsted and get the 9 or 8 respectively.