Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[Sam92]

If the drainage has failed, it's not going to matter that they replaced the ballast and ties. The new ballast is going to move, and the ties will move with it, and the track will have to be put in a slow zone. It's a waste to keep fixing the symptom, instead of the underlying problem.

We know that.... I was responding to Busjack's point about lack of maintenance on that section stating that there was maintenance but it was probably done half-assed on purpose to justify the project.

[brownliner]

 

From http://www.transitchicago.com/redsouth/

"From just north of the Cermak-Chinatown station to the 95th Street station, crews will replace everything in the track bed: ties, rail, third rail, ballast (the stone material that holds the ties in place) and drainage systems."

So they seem to know that, thanks.

DH

I'm well aware that the CTA knows that. It's the people here who are suggesting that sabotage is the reason the slow zones came back who seem to not know that. I don't doubt that once it was decided that a major rebuild would need to happen that maintenance slowed down. There are better places to spend maintenance money than on something that will break in a month, and which is going to get capital money spent on it.

[geneking7320]

In all this time the question just now occurs to me:

what was done right in the Congress rapid transit construction that was NOT done in the Dan Ryan rapid transit construction?

And why was it not done?

[artthouwill]

In all this time the question just now occurs to me:

what was done right in the Congress rapid transit construction that was NOT done in the Dan Ryan rapid transit construction?

And why was it not done?

Nothing,as noted, the Congress branch is suffering frim.slow zones also. The main difference is the frequency if service has always been less on this branch as opposed to the heavy use on the Dan Ryan leg of the Red. We also mentioned that eventually the Congress leg will also need a similar rebuild.

[mkohut]

Nothing,as noted, the Congress branch is suffering frim.slow zones also. The main difference is the frequency if service has always been less on this branch as opposed to the heavy use on the Dan Ryan leg of the Red. We also mentioned that eventually the Congress leg will also need a similar rebuild.

I disagree a little bit on frequency.If you look at how many trains are going to Forest Park during AM Rush and going towards the Loop in PM Rush they do have alot.

[artthouwill]

I disagree a little bit on frequency.If you look at how many trains are going to Forest Park during AM Rush and going towards the Loop in PM Rush they do have alot.

Not nearly as many as the Red Line which has 2 to 5minute frequencies during rush periods. Until 2006, trains on the Blue Line alternated between Forest Park and 54/Cermak with about 12 to 15 minute frequencies. Currently, rush hour trains alternate short turns at UIC Halsted and Forest Park, and now the short turns extend to most hours including weekends. Therefore the most frequent rush trains on the Forest Pk branch run 7.5 to 12 minutes. The Dan Ryan branch has ALWAYS had high frequencies, even as the Lake Dan Ryan Line before 1993. Considering the Dan Ryan leg is not as old as the Eisenhower leg, it has taken more abuse.

[MetroShadow]

I disagree a little bit on frequency.If you look at how many trains are going to Forest Park during AM Rush and going towards the Loop in PM Rush they do have alot.

Not if every second or third train is sent to UIC. The frequency is about the same between the Blue and Red on a normal rush is about the same. The Red, regardless of the time of day, has been consistent with frequency and the TPH rate.

[Busjack]

Nothing,as noted, the Congress branch is suffering frim.slow zones also. The main difference is the frequency if service has always been less on this branch as opposed to the heavy use on the Dan Ryan leg of the Red. We also mentioned that eventually the Congress leg will also need a similar rebuild.

Personally, I don't think frequency has anything to do with it at all.

The Dan Ryan was a garbage job from day one. First it had concrete ties that had to be replaced with wooden ones within a few years of construction. Then chicago-l.org reported that the support column on the ramp between Cermak and 18th cracked. Then Andre had various posts that due to bad drainage and ballast, the tracks went out of alignment.

I'm not saying sabotage per se, but Emanuel sure found a crisis where none existed before in the public perception, and Sam notes that service went downhill immediately after that.

Given David's reports of presumably large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million going into ancillary projects, one wonders how far that state formula Build Illinois money would have gone if that line had been properly built and maintained.

[Sam92]

Personally, I don't think frequency has anything to do with it at all.

The Dan Ryan was a garbage job from day one. First it had concrete ties that had to be replaced with wooden ones within a few years of construction. Then chicago-l.org reported that the support column on the ramp between Cermak and 18th cracked. Then Andre had various posts that due to bad drainage and ballast, the tracks went out of alignment.

I'm not saying sabotage per se, but Emanuel sure found a crisis where none existed before in the public perception, and Sam notes that service went downhill immediately after that.

Given David's reports of presumably large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million going into ancillary projects, one wonders how far that state formula Build Illinois money would have gone if that line had been properly built and maintained.

Bad drainage was the reason they switched from concrete, so why would they wait nearly 40 years to.address the problem?

[Busjack]

Bad drainage was the reason they switched from concrete, so why would they wait nearly 40 years to.address the problem?

That's not what they said at the time. They just said that the ties cracked.

[Sam92]

That's not what they said at the time. They just said that the ties cracked.

Is that why the concrete ties on other median lines were replaced too?

[Busjack]

Is that why the concrete ties on other median lines were replaced too?

I think they replaced those on the Kennedy at about the same time.

Dan Ryan was supposedly the first to get concrete ties, but I can't vouch for that.

[chicagopcclcar]

Personally, I don't think frequency has anything to do with it at all.

The Dan Ryan was a garbage job from day one. First it had concrete ties that had to be replaced with wooden ones within a few years of construction. Then chicago-l.org reported that the support column on the ramp between Cermak and 18th cracked. Then Andre had various posts that due to bad drainage and ballast, the tracks went out of alignment.

I'm not saying sabotage per se, but Emanuel sure found a crisis where none existed before in the public perception, and Sam notes that service went downhill immediately after that.

Given David's reports of presumably large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million going into ancillary projects, one wonders how far that state formula Build Illinois money would have gone if that line had been properly built and maintained.

There was nothing in my reports that said that large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million were going into anciliary projects, so stop trying to change my writing to match your endless attacks on the CTA. I made no statements at all concerning the sources of funding.

DH

[Busjack]

There was nothing in my reports that said that large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million were going into anciliary projects, so stop trying to change my writing to match your endless attacks on the CTA. I made no statements at all concerning the sources of funding.

DH

1. I said "presumably."

2. You were the one with the pictures of the Roosevelt incline, wooden stairs at Garfield, etc.

I suppose that if those are not funded by the $450 million or whatever of the state bond money and would have been done notwithstanding the Dan Ryan project, you would have said so.

Personally, I am surprised that the ancillary work is being done, but I guess someone figured that was necessary to make the reroute work, and for a change was proactive. That's isn't a criticism.

[BusHunter]

I think they replaced those on the Kennedy at about the same time.

Dan Ryan was supposedly the first to get concrete ties, but I can't vouch for that.

Both the Dan Ryan and Kennedy extension were built with concrete ties. Those were mean't to last longer than a typical wooden tie. I believe around 20 years. In the 90's or late 80's the Kennedy ones were replaced. You can still see concrete ties on the Kennedy if you look at Edmunds middle (that's the middle track north of Jeff. Pk.)

[Busjack]

Both the Dan Ryan and Kennedy extension were built with concrete ties. Those were mean't to last longer than a typical wooden tie. I believe around 20 years. In the 90's or late 80's the Kennedy ones were replaced. You can still see concrete ties on the Kennedy if you look at Edmunds middle (that's the middle track north of Jeff. Pk.)

I would then stand corrected on the Kennedy ties. (I am referring to the ones with the small concrete pads under the tracks and a metal "strap" between them).

But I doubt that the Dan Ryan ones lasted more than maybe 5 years.

Chicago-l.org mentions that the concrete ties were replaced on the Dan Ryan, but not when. Garfield does attribute it in part to drainage problems. Routes & Operations->Dan Ryan Branch.

[Sam92]

That's not what they said at the time. They just said that the ties cracked.

I did happen to read about the drainage issue before Emmanuel took office... I think the tracks were slowed down on purpose after the huge single track operation just to say, "Hey you see how much we've had to slow this section down?" And get the money for this, plus cover up some other garbage work done on the section. Gonna be interesting if the slow zones expand on say the Pink Line or the Kennedy section of the Blue (which is starting to show track slow zones again in spots). Any guesses on the new excuses? :lol:

[Busjack]

.. Any guesses on the new excuses?

The usual one of after spending money on various projects, "we [still] have $8 billion in unmet capital needs to put the system in a state of good repair" usually works.

Somehow, I seem to have converted you over to my chain of thought, though.

[Sam92]

The usual one of after spending money on various projects, "we [still] have $8 billion in unmet capital needs to put the system in a state of good repair" usually works.

Somehow, I seem to have converted you over to my chain of thought, though.

Just an open minded person who matches facts vs. words that are spoken . thats why on tattler Dan Ryan was the only thing I disagreed with you on seeing as I rode it throughout the whole 2005 project and saw no other trackwork other than the crossovers so if powerpoints did say the whole line was done, then yes they lied and we can agree on that as well. But the one I saw only said crossovers and maybe the whole line between 22nd and 47th which matched what I rode past and saw. I never disagreed with you with other things such as the Brown Line platforms, i've seen the Pink Line slow zones on the maps myself so that was no doubt, slow zones are already back on the Kennedy in addition to some power and signal slow zones plus now they want to do station work AGAIN on the Dan Ryan (elevators I can understand but all station were indeed touched in the 2005 project so whats there to redo besides the elevators). I still question why if drainage let to concrete ties being replaced down here as chicago-l.org suggested, why not address it then rather than 40 years later? I'm sure they didn't have Billions in unmet needs then.

[Busjack]

.... I still question why if drainage let to concrete ties being replaced down here as chicago-l.org suggested, why not address it then rather than 40 years later? I'm sure they didn't have Billions in unmet needs then.

While I acknowledged chicago-l.org saying drainage, I still think that at that time the replacement of the concrete ties was more attributed to "we tried something new that didn't work."

Other than that, it seems to be a combination of municipal contractors doing a half-@$$ed job (before Homer Simpson, but which apparently continued until recently), and not wanting to rip out something as soon as it was constructed. Highway construction wasn't much better--asphalt patches and overlay were put on the Dan Ryan expressway itself within about 15 years of construction, and there were repeated milling and asphalt overlays until it finally was rebuilt in 2005. Best as I can tell, though, that rebuilding job has at least lasted into 2013.

The Howard line got welded rail in the 1970s, and while there are now questions about the stability of the embankment, that apparently lasted until the 2012 rehab job there.

[mkohut]

The one thing about the project is Emanuel and Claypool take credit to make then self look good is all the jobs its createing.But,can't find money to save some routes from not being cut.

[chicagopcclcar]

1. I said "presumably."

2. You were the one with the pictures of the Roosevelt incline, wooden stairs at Garfield, etc.

I suppose that if those are not funded by the $450 million or whatever of the state bond money and would have been done notwithstanding the Dan Ryan project, you would have said so.

Personally, I am surprised that the ancillary work is being done, but I guess someone figured that was necessary to make the reroute work, and for a change was proactive. That's isn't a criticism.

You did not say "presumably"....You said "David's report presumably..." I'm telling you now, don't put words in that I did not say. Keep your hatred for the CTA to yourself or at least own up to your own bigotry. For all the years I've researched that I can see, you have written nothing but hatred without recognizing the thousands of decent CTA workers who do a good job and provide the best service they know how. If your hatred of Emanuel, Claypool, and Peterson is that deep-seated, form a PAC and get a job with it and channel your energies. The CTA could give away crisp new hundred dollar bills and you would complain.

Poster named "Busjack" wrote previously:

"Given David's reports of presumably large parts of the Dan Ryan $450 million going into ancillary projects, one wonders how far that state formula Build Illinois money would have gone if that line had been properly built and maintained."

DH

[T8H5307A]

You can still see concrete ties on the Kennedy if you look at Edmunds middle (that's the middle track north of Jeff. Pk.)

FYI, That track is referred to as Edmunds Center Track. Middle Tracks are interlocked.Center Tracks are not and you have to manually operate switches to access the track.

[Busjack]

Message ignored. Other typist has obvious anger management, ego, and reading comprehension issues.

[chicagopcclcar]

Message ignored. Other typist has obvious anger management, ego, and reading comprehension issues.

And don't forget it ,either. May I recommend a meet at 59th Street Junction, in the alley below. We'll discuss the operation of the interlocking plant located there.