Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[chicagopcclcar]

If I get to another public hearing, I'd like to ask what constitutes a slow zone. If it is just an area with speed restrictions,.then I want to know what CTA plans to do concerning the Green Line between Roosevelt and 35th and between 58th and 63rd/Halsted. I especially want to know about the 13th St incline. For one, when Red Line trains get routed that way, they creep and stop, no more than 6 to 10 mph. Maybe its the weeds now growing on the concrete bed from the tunnel to where the concrete embankment meets the steel structure halfway up. I would think Red Line riders inconvenienced by shuttles and reroutes would be irate to endure more slow zones. With the.SSM poised to get a heavy pounding, it won't be long before it will need track and tie replacement. I don't believe the 13th incline has been touched during any Red or Green Line rehab projects.

Why wouldn't you believe that the CTA will do necessary repairs on Green line tracks south of 17th St interlocking all the way to Ashland/63 before the Red line is rerouted there. That doesn't seem to need thinking at a rocket scientist level. That's just common sense. Trust me, CTA engineers know where the slow zones are on the Green line.

Which brings us to your second question......A slow zone is a length of track where the speed limit has been lowered because of some defect or condition. The speed in the slow zone could be 35, 25, 15 or 6 MPH. For instance track that is out of gauge would get a 6 MPH. If it is farther our of gauge, it would get a 0 MPH...you don't want to see that. The longest slow zone ever was east 63rd, back in the 60s....20 MPH from Calumet to Stony Island, but that might be before your time. LOL. Slow zones can be caused by track conditions, by weakness in the steel or ongoing structural work, by limited power available, or by construction on buildings next to the 'L'.

The northbound incline has a slow speed because the track conditions are normally bad...meaning because of infrequent use the rails are rusty and greasy, not the best running condition. You don't want to go speeding downhill there!! Also, you are approaching a manual interlocking to get you onto the "A" track in the subway. The interlocking is normally set for Red line trains. A train descending on the incline and into the subway is still on that bad rail. It has to stop at the home signal and use manual route selectors to get a routing. The interlocking plant has to determine that there are no Red line trains approaching. 13th St. interlocking can be operated by a towerman during reroutes which could eliminate the mandatory stop.

David H.

[jajuan]

Either they are (1) listening to alternatives posed at the meetings or (2) incompetent.

Lay your odds, folks.

However, I think they were taken off stride with Hilkevitch's column that the plan wasn't going to work. You'll note Molly Sullivan there stating that the plan was subject to revision, while Brian Steele was intimating that everything had been thought out.

I'm banking on your second option of incompetent given reports that many of the board members, including Board Chairman Peterson rarely ride on the system over which they preside, if they even ride the system at all. When Peterson was appointed in 2009, he hadn't ridden the system at all. He managed to improve that to a measly 13 times for all of 2011. Claypool for all his faults can at least say he used the system 166 times in 2011. There are a few board members who have used the system on a regular basis. But can we be surprised at how they're bungling PR with this project when we have a board where more than half of whom don't even ride the system though they're charged with making important decisions on the system's operations and maintenance? As for the source for figures given, check out the Tuesday June 26th issue of the RedEye.

[Busjack]

....Also, they say that behind closed doors, the CTA has a plan to convert CTA fares within Metra's fare structure, i don't know how that's going to work since Metra fares are distance based, but the deal is on the table.

The one thing that supports this is that the Pace Board Minutes* just posted mentioned that distance base fares were discussed in connection with Pace paying CTA to join the Cubic contract.

Not that they would be Metra fares.

Pace also assumed that Metra would just join the CTA contract, but it sort of was otherwise indicated that Metra was going its own way with regard to the state mandate.

______________

*I'm trying using the Google docs link, since the minutes seem up only for 2 months

Note also, that the verifiable source is again Pace, not CTA.

[Busjack]

I'm banking on your second option of incompetent given reports that many of the board members, including Board Chairman Peterson rarely ride on the system over which they preside, if they even ride the system at all. When Peterson was appointed in 2009, he hadn't ridden the system at all. He managed to improve that to a measly 13 times for all of 2011. Claypool for all his faults can at least say he used the system 166 times in 2011. There are a few board members who have used the system on a regular basis. But can we be surprised at how they're bungling PR with this project when we have a board where more than half of whom don't even ride the system though they're charged with making important decisions on the system's operations and maintenance? As for the source for figures given, check out the Tuesday June 26th issue of the RedEye.

I had read that too, but going back to the Tribune articles on Carole Brown and Sheila Gregory not riding the system, combined with that none or maybe one of the Board members meet statutory qualifications, that isn't too surprising.

I was thinking more of the construction staff being incompetent.

The Board's lack of competence seems more in the area indicated by CurrentZ--that Terry Peterson appeared at the meetings mostly to do political glad-handing.

And, of course, the prior lead incompetent Frank Kruesi's position with regard to Three Track was initially "just find some other way." At least this group didn't start with that position.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Listen to this exclusive interview with CTA President Forrest Claypoll about CTA issues and the Hot Button topic at hand, the Red Line South 2013 Shutdown. If you haven't gone to a meeting yet, here is a preview of what you are about to get from Claypool, Terry and Gang.

June 17, 2012

WBBM Political Editor Craig Dellimore spoke with CTA's President Forrest Claypool about CTA issues, specifically the Red Line renovations set to begin next spring.

http://chicago.cbslo.../show/at-issue/#

Also, the episode is also avaiable for download, so you may listen to this or play clips to tell Claypool this what you were telling listeners on WBBM to correct the lies he may tell.

Also, listen to this

Chicago Transit Authority President Forrest Claypool joins Steve Edwards on Afternoon Shift one day after announcing a five month shutdown of the south end of the Red Line for upgrades. He responds to criticism of the plan and explains the rationale behind it.

http://www.wbez.org/programs/afternoon-shift-steve-edwards/2012-06-05/forrest-claypool-red-line-south-closure-plan-99825

[Busjack]

...

June 17, 2012

WBBM Political Editor Craig Dellimore spoke with CTA's President Forrest Claypool about CTA issues, specifically the Red Line renovations set to begin next spring. ...

In fact, I'm teed off that this is classified as SCORE Values, and there isn't anything on 670 after 9 p.m. Sunday until the Grobber comes on at midnight.

There are enough bloviating politicians on 6 channels of over the air TV and several newstalk radio stations that the real task is trying to avoid them.

[CURRENTZ_09]

In fact, I'm teed off that this is classified as SCORE Values, and there isn't anything on 670 after 9 p.m. Sunday until the Grobber comes on at midnight.

There are enough bloviating politicians on 6 channels of over the air TV and several newstalk radio stations that the real task is trying to avoid them.

I just want people to understand what they are saying to the listeners and then what they say to people at these community meetings. They are going to show out i promise you, i will be attending another one of these meetings in july and give another report

[chicagopcclcar]

If I get to another public hearing, I'd like to ask what constitutes a slow zone.

I took the time to give you a detailed answer. Were all of your questions answered?

David H.

[artthouwill]

I took the time to give you a detailed answer. Were all of your questions answered?

David H.

thanks. I figured as much. You confirmed what I was thinking, but if CTA allowed this deterioration on the Red, why would I think they woyld fix the Green up first to handle extra Red trains?

[chicagopcclcar]

thanks. I figured as much. You confirmed what I was thinking, but if CTA allowed this deterioration on the Red, why would I think they woyld fix the Green up first to handle extra Red trains?

Thanks for the response. I wonder if other systems have slow zone maps for public viewing? I'm amazed at the slow zone in the State St. subway and the Blue line Forest Park is almost as bad as the Red line.

David H.

[Busjack]

Thanks for the response. I wonder if other systems have slow zone maps for public viewing? I'm amazed at the slow zone in the State St. subway and the Blue line Forest Park is almost as bad as the Red line.

David H.

With regard to the State St. subway, I'm not sure what you mean. The only one I see is around the Division curve, ant that will never be more than a crawl. Maybe that NB is limited north of Chicago. But I thought you were indicating that the concrete tie job done in the rest of the subway had fallen apart.

A lot of them on the Brown/Purple, but, then again, a lot of curves on that stretch.

[chicagopcclcar]

With regard to the State St. subway, I'm not sure what you mean. The only one I see is around the Division curve, ant that will never be more than a crawl. Maybe that NB is limited north of Chicago. But I thought you were indicating that the concrete tie job done in the rest of the subway had fallen apart.

A lot of them on the Brown/Purple, but, then again, a lot of curves on that stretch.

Slow zones should have no relationship to curves. Curves have a recommended speed limit, usually posted on a sign. The fact that a curve would be within the limits of a slow zone means there is some defect there. The Division curves were the sites of several track fires associated with the rail lubricant in the past. I'll check into it. The NB slowzone is too long just to be associated with a track fire.

David H.

Rail and concrete ties will have to be replaced to remove slow zones in subway at Division, SB and NB. Green line Englewood has no more slow zones. SS Main WILL BE completed before Red line reroute.

Edited June 28, 2012 by chicagopcclcar

[Mike Payne]

Went to the meeting last night, missed the 15 minute presentation, and stayed for about 2 hours of questions and comments.

As far as improvements, there seemed to be interest or comments from Claypool and others on the following:

- Comment about an announcement 'Soon' with Metra concerning this project regarding taking "the same media you use now to pay for CTA rides" and being able to board Metra trains. (I thought it was referencing specific travel by bus to 95th so I took it as specific Metra stations to accept CTA fare media for transfers during the 5-month Red rebuild - it also seemed worded so that PACE fare media would be accepted at the same Metra stations)

As I had stated at the June 18th CTA Board meeting - to me (apparently ALONE) it would be easiest for riders and, CTA and Metra to find a way to use CTA Fare Media O N L Y during the reconstruction.

With Portable CTA Fare Boxes controlling entrance to MED in-city stations - N O new or different type of Fare Media ("One-time Metra Passes") would be required to be produced, or learned how to utilize by the Public; and there would be NO type of Fare collection or examination on-board the train.

ANY CTA Fare Media could be accepted (Transit Cards - Daily, Weekly and Monthly Passes, U-Passes, Reduced Fare Cards, etc., etc...), and reconciliation of Fare Funds collected and distributed would be at the Accounts Payable/Accounts Receivable through the RTA - leaving riders un-involved in that part of the equation.

This would require only a TWO man crew on all in-city MED trains (no matter how many cars) used in the alternative service, as there would be NO on-board Fare collection.

How many crew would be required on a 4, 5, or 6 car MED train WITH on-board Fare collection??

I am SURE the riding Public would rather deal with a Train Fare system that operates EXACTLY as the existing CTA 'L' Fare system and procedures do at present - than some new "hybrid" system with new Fare instruments, procedures, and a required ticket examination by Train crews; I know I would.

btw: I am speaking ONLY of the MED, any RI alternative service would require very different Fare procedures because of it's radically different Physical Plant.

[Mike Payne]

I do it 24/7, if you're inquiring.

This is what I love about these boards - I ask you several questions, and you only respond to one (#3), great way to hold an intelligent conversation.

And you're not the only one who does this - and I'll bet I do it too; although never again by me, all questions put to me - will be answered by me.

Question #1) - You still haven't explained how "staff on-board the trains" could inspect 60 to 80 or more people boarding at one stop (like 95th), before you arrive at the next stop 4 blocks away (like 87th) in two or three minutes? (where some of them might legitimately be getting off).

And P L E A S E don't try to lay it on the >> train crews << with that "if the train crews were doing their jobs" Crap.

Question #2) - Nor have you acknowledged the existence of portable CTA fare boxes (used to control platform access).

Question #3) - btw: Do you throw elbows at Belmont or Fullerton on the Red/Brown Line during rush hours?

[Mike Payne]

http://gridchicago.c...lan-in-decades/

Metra seeks public input to develop first strategic plan in decades

by STEVEN VANCE on JULY 3, 2012

Furthering its goal of soliciting input and engaging in dialogue with its major stakeholders, Metra is asking its riders, the public, elected officials and others for their help as it begins to craft its first strategic plan in several decades. You can offer input by coming out to one of our public open house forums [calendar below] throughout the region. You can also provide input by completing a short survey actively available here from 7/2/12 until 8/10/12.

All meeting materials are on the Strategic Plan webpage.

CITY OF CHICAGO

Tuesday, July 10, 4 PM – 7 PM

Metra

Board Room, 13th Floor

547 W. Jackson Blvd.

Chicago, IL 60661

DUPAGE COUNTY

Thursday, July 12, 4 PM – 7 PM

Village of Glen Ellyn

Village Hall, Galligan (Village) Board Room, 3rd Floor

535 Duane Street

Glen Ellyn, IL 60137

KANE COUNTY

Tuesday, July 24, 4 PM – 7 PM

City of Geneva

Geneva City Hall

22 South First Street

Geneva, IL 60134

LAKE COUNTY

Tuesday, July 17, 4 PM – 7 PM

Libertyville Village Hall

Board Room/Council Chambers

118 W. Cook Avenue

Libertyville, IL 60048

MCHENRY COUNTY

Wednesday, July 25, 4 PM – 7 PM

Crystal Lake City Hall

Board Room/Council Chambers

100 West Woodstock Street

Crystal Lake, IL 60014

NORTH SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY

Wednesday, July 18, 4 PM – 7 PM

City of Evanston

Civic Center, Parasol Room – 4th Floor

2100 Ridge Avenue

Evanston, IL 60201

SOUTH SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY

Thursday, July 19, 4 PM – 7 PM

Village of Homewood

Village Hall, Board Room

2020 Chestnut Road

Homewood, IL 60430

WEST SUBURBAN COOK COUNTY

Wednesday, July 11, 4 PM – 7 PM

Riverside Village Hall

Room 4

27 Riverside Road

Riverside, IL 60546

WILL COUNTY

Tuesday, July 24, 4 PM – 7 PM

Village of New Lenox

Village Hall, Council Chambers

1 Veterans Parkway

New Lenox, IL 60451

All of the open house events will soon be listed on our sidebar calendar.

[artthouwill]

This is what I love about these boards - I ask you several questions, and you only respond to one (#3), great way to hold an intelligent conversation.

And you're not the only one who does this - and I'll bet I do it too; although never again by me, all questions put to me - will be answered by me.

Question #1) - You still haven't explained how "staff on-board the trains" could inspect 60 to 80 or more people boarding at one stop (like 95th), before you arrive at the next stop 4 blocks away (like 87th) in two or three minutes? (where some of them might legitimately be getting off).

And P L E A S E don't try to lay it on the >> train crews << with that "if the train crews were doing their jobs" Crap.

Question #2) - Nor have you acknowledged the existence of portable CTA fare boxes (used to control platform access).

Question #3) - btw: Do you throw elbows at Belmont or Fullerton on the Red/Brown Line during rush hours?

Concerning collection of.fares, and Trainman can probably verify, the Beverly nranch of the RI pretty much falls in one zone, so the Metra conductors probably don't check tickets and fares until Gresham. Probably similar on the ME. In regatds to supplementa service, assuming Metra honors CTA fare media or there's some interagency agreement, Metra crews will stick to their routine. As far as portable fate collection, it May be workable for the ME, but you will need constant changing of fareboxes at each station and police protection of ssid fareboxes and those who will watch .

[Busjack]

http://gridchicago.c...lan-in-decades/

Metra seeks public input to develop first strategic plan in decades

I filled out their web survey, but most of the questions about Mission and Vision were just the usual corporate speak. I did speak my mind in the text box at the end, including that the 3 service boards should be abolished, and even if that does not occur....

Also, based on the Rail Tracker thread, I did mention if they were talking world best technology, Rail Tracker is a joke.

[Mike Payne]

I filled out their web survey, but most of the questions about Mission and Vision were just the usual corporate speak. I did speak my mind in the text box at the end, including that the 3 service boards should be abolished, and even if that does not occur....

Also, based on the Rail Tracker thread, I did mention if they were talking world best technology, Rail Tracker is a joke.

Will you be able to attend the Tuesday July 10th meeting at Metra Headquarters Jack?

I will be bringing Literature to distribute, and the Rapid-Transit modified Bi-level "Grayliner" EMU mock-up: https://www.box.com/shared/218136b90a1446a8df32

[Busjack]

Will you be able to attend the Tuesday July 10th meeting at Metra Headquarters Jack?

I will be bringing Literature to distribute, and the Rapid-Transit modified Bi-level "Grayliner" EMU mock-up: https://www.box.com/...6b90a1446a8df32

I answered that one, in effect, on the CTA Tatter.

Since Alex Clifford has joined the Forrest Claypool world of corporate speak, if he is going to get any message from me, he got it over the web.

That probably goes the same for you getting any message from me, including that converting Metra to the CTA is dead, and car 1231 will be the same as car 1201. Also, probably car 1361. As Quinn pointed out in Rochelle, that order is already in, and NewsRadio 780 WBBM says Metra will start taking deliveries around Labor Day. In fact, that article says:

Interior appointments aboard the new Electric District cars will be identical to the 26 cars delivered in 2005-06, before state funding ran dry.

So you are too late. Enjoy wasting your time.

[CURRENTZ_09]

CTA Red South Community Meeting

Saturday, July 14, 2012

National Teachers' Academy,

55 W. Cermak Road, Chicago, IL

10 a.m. until noon

I will be there, any meets or greets i am free. Travel options are posted below. Also, go to youtube.com/ctaconnections as they now have an episode posted about the Red Line South Project

Chicago Transit Authority Red South Track Renewal Community Meetings 7.5.12.pdf

[Mike Payne]

So you are too late. Enjoy wasting your time.

It's never stopped me before has it?

And E V E R Y B O D Y (including You) said CTA and Metra would N E V E R (E V E R) work together in A N Y Way, Shape, or Form (right or wrong??)

NOW they say they will find "some" way to work together (right or wrong??)

[Mike Payne]

Concerning collection of.fares, and Trainman can probably verify, the Beverly nranch of the RI pretty much falls in one zone, so the Metra conductors probably don't check tickets and fares until Gresham. Probably similar on the ME. In regatds to supplementa service, assuming Metra honors CTA fare media or there's some interagency agreement, Metra crews will stick to their routine. As far as portable fate collection, it May be workable for the ME, but you will need constant changing of fareboxes at each station and police protection of ssid fareboxes and those who will watch .

And how many Metra train crew would be required for to 4, 5, or 6 car MED trains every 10 or so minutes? (Driver, Conductor, and X# of Collectors)

CTA Farebox Collection, and Metra Police.

[Busjack]

It's never stopped me before has it?

And E V E R Y B O D Y (including You) said CTA and Metra would N E V E R (E V E R) work together in A N Y Way, Shape, or Form (right or wrong??)

NOW they say they will find "some" way to work together (right or wrong??)

As I said before, you conceded that the consultants killed the project because the highliners couldn't function as Shoreliners or whatever you want to call your mockup. So, you converted a somewhat logical request for universal transfers into a totally hopeless one about fare barriers. As I noted a couple of days ago, CTA says that most of its criminals are turnstile jumpers.

So, now you want me to take time to see a mockup of something Metra has indicated to NewsRadio 780 that it isn't buying?

Also, you exaggerate what I said. I said CTA had no incentive to pay Metra to run the Gray Line as a CTA service. Now, the Red Line shutdown (finally relevant to this thread) gave them a reason to. I'll bet, though, that Hilkevitch had more to do with it than you ever did.

In that I pointed out that both Claypool and Clifford are talking gobbledegook, they may be talking to each other, but not saying anything of any consequence. And, as someone else pointed out, only with regard to the 5 month Red Line shutdown.

I'm not a psychologist (or as I pointed out earlier, a civil engineer), but your whole train of thought has seriously come off the tracks.

[Mike Payne]

As I said before, you conceded that the consultants killed the project because the highliners couldn't function as Shoreliners or whatever you want to call your mockup. So, you converted a somewhat logical request for universal transfers into a totally hopeless one about fare barriers. As I noted a couple of days ago, CTA says that most of its criminals are turnstile jumpers.

NO - The "Consultants" killed the project because THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE DIRECTLY ASSIGNED TO DO Politically (Now we don't want to hear about it anymore)

You know in the first place, I've never directly advocated for a UFC (although it is a GREAT idea).

The Gray Line from the start was ONLY intended to modify the MED using barrier fare control to make it function as an 'L' line; and had NOTHING to do with fare integration between any other CTA or Metra service (JUST THE MED)

OTHER PEOPLE re-interpreted that into me advocating for a Multi-Agency UFC; Everybody seems reinterpret my ideas into what they think I mean. (and I've stopped wasting my time trying to correct them)

[Busjack]

NO - The "Consultants" killed the project because THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE DIRECTLY ASSIGNED TO DO (Now we don't want to hear about it anymore)

You know in the first place, I've never directly advocated for a UFC (although it is a GREAT idea).

The Gray Line from the start was ONLY intended to modify the MED using barrier fare control to make it function as an 'L' line; and had NOTHING to do with fare integration between any other CTA or Metra service (JUST THE MED)

OTHER PEOPLE re-interpreted that into me advocating for a Multi-Agency UFC; Everybody seems reinterpret my ideas into what they think I mean. (and I've stopped wasting my time trying to correct them)

The only rationalization for your statement I highlighted in fuchsia is that you disagree with the rest of the ME riders who wanted the fare controls out.

This is becoming so ridiculous that that's it from me (unless you provoke me further).