Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[Mike Payne]

The only rationalization for your statement I highlighted in fuchsia is that you disagree with the rest of the ME riders who wanted the fare controls out.

This is becoming so ridiculous that that's it from me (unless you provoke me further).

Don't you think you're PROVOKING ME my consciously mis-wording my statements - Goodbye and Good Riddance

[MetroShadow]

This is what I love about these boards - I ask you several questions, and you only respond to one (#3), great way to hold an intelligent conversation.

And you're not the only one who does this - and I'll bet I do it too; although never again by me, all questions put to me - will be answered by me.

Question #1) - You still haven't explained how "staff on-board the trains" could inspect 60 to 80 or more people boarding at one stop (like 95th), before you arrive at the next stop 4 blocks away (like 87th) in two or three minutes? (where some of them might legitimately be getting off).

And P L E A S E don't try to lay it on the >> train crews << with that "if the train crews were doing their jobs" Crap.

Question #2) - Nor have you acknowledged the existence of portable CTA fare boxes (used to control platform access).

Question #3) - btw: Do you throw elbows at Belmont or Fullerton on the Red/Brown Line during rush hours?

Best to answer the newer (and personally relevant) question than to respond to the other two that has been addressed to the point of beating a dead horse.

[Mike Payne]

http://gridchicago.com/2012/comment-of-the-day-what-is-the-role-of-a-regional-transportation-authority/#disqus_thread

New transportation bill passes: Would an extension of previous bill have been better?

Comment of the day: What is the role of a regional transportation authority?

by STEVEN VANCE on JULY 5, 2012 · 3 COMMENTS AND 3 REACTIONS

Photo of a Metra Electric train at Millennium Station by Jim Watkins. Mike Payne has proposed using the Metra Electric system as the Gray Line, run in “rapid transit” fashion by the CTA.

We posted on Tuesday about Metra’s online survey and open houses to gather public input which will help the commuter rail agency develop its strategic plan.

Randy Neufeld commented on that post:

This is an example of what is broken. Metra should not do a strategic plan. Metra, CTA, and PACE should do a strategic plan together. What’s next, competing in Congress and Springfield to fund competing strategic plans? RTA and CMAP should require a unifed transit plan for the region. Transit funding is in crisis. This is no time for Metra to plan solo.

The Regional Transportation Authority (RTA) has existed since 1974 and has its own strategic plan (“The Way Forward”). From its mission statement: “The RTA’s primary responsibilities became [in a 1983 reorganization] financial and budget oversight of CTA, Metra and Pace, and regional transit planning issues”.

The three service boards operate in a well-defined geographic and economic region, serving the same customers, the same communities, connect with each other at the same stations, and even have similar routes. They should be “acting regionally”.

[CURRENTZ_09]

http://gridchicago.c.../#disqus_thread

New transportation bill passes: Would an extension of previous bill have been better?

Comment of the day: What is the role of a regional transportation authority?

by STEVEN VANCE on JULY 5, 2012 · 3 COMMENTS AND 3 REACTIONS

Photo of a Metra Electric train at Millennium Station by Jim Watkins. Mike Payne has proposed using the Metra Electric system as the Gray Line, run in "rapid transit" fashion by the CTA.

We posted on Tuesday about Metra's online survey and open houses to gather public input which will help the commuter rail agency develop its strategic plan.

Randy Neufeld commented on that post:

This is an example of what is broken. Metra should not do a strategic plan. Metra, CTA, and PACE should do a strategic plan together. What's next, competing in Congress and Springfield to fund competing strategic plans? RTA and CMAP should require a unifed transit plan for the region. Transit funding is in crisis. This is no time for Metra to plan solo.

The Regional Transportation Authority (RTA) has existed since 1974 and has its own strategic plan ("The Way Forward"). From its mission statement: "The RTA's primary responsibilities became [in a 1983 reorganization] financial and budget oversight of CTA, Metra and Pace, and regional transit planning issues".

The three service boards operate in a well-defined geographic and economic region, serving the same customers, the same communities, connect with each other at the same stations, and even have similar routes. They should be "acting regionally".

So, will this mean that the Red Line Extension and RedPurple Moderization be easier or harder to jump start

[Busjack]

So, will this mean that the Red Line Extension and RedPurple Moderization be easier or harder to jump start

It won't mean anything.

In fact it is not in scope for this thread.

However, you can report whether the meeting off Cermak indicates that CTA has developed any further plan for the Cermak-Chinatown station, other than the last announced that they might include a shuttle bus to Roosevelt.

[CURRENTZ_09]

It won't mean anything.

In fact it is not in scope for this thread.

However, you can report whether the meeting off Cermak indicates that CTA has developed any further plan for the Cermak-Chinatown station, other than the last announced that they might include a shuttle bus to Roosevelt.

I will find all that out next saturday to find out all the goodies you want to hear. My official recap of the Red Line South: Cermak Meeting will be reported later on Saturday, don't want to miss any of the action. I want to see if this meeting can top the Halsted meeting

[chicagopcclcar]

I will find all that out next saturday to find out all the goodies you want to hear. My official recap of the Red Line South: Cermak Meeting will be reported later on Saturday, don't want to miss any of the action. I want to see if this meeting can top the Halsted meeting

CURRENTZ_09....I'm curious...."top the Halsted meeting" in what way??

Dvaid H.

[Mike Payne]

CURRENTZ_09....I'm curious...."top the Halsted meeting" in what way??

David H.

Seems like everybody comes out to do nothing but criticize, and condemn CTA for A N Y and A L L reasons (and like CURRENTZ said - get laughed at) - sounds like a "Saturday Night Live" skit, VERY amusing.

I'm not aware of any others having an actual Alternative Plan to present to CTA - just "bitchin".

I have an actual, detailed Plan to present; and ANYBODY ELSE can submit one (or many) of their own too.

[Mike Payne]

It won't mean anything.

In fact it is not in scope for this thread.

However, you can report whether the meeting off Cermak indicates that CTA has developed any further plan for the Cermak-Chinatown station, other than the last announced that they might include a shuttle bus to Roosevelt.

Jack - Why you are always so negative, and discouraging?

[Mike Payne]

So, will this mean that the Red Line Extension and RedPurple Moderization be easier or harder to jump start

Hopefully it might lead to Projects being prioritize on their overall Cost/Benefits ratio ranking - regardless of Agency;

rather than strictly by Political leverage (like the popular and profitable "Block 37").

[Busjack]

Jack - Why you are always so negative, and discouraging?

Why do you ask questions when you said GOOD RIDDANCE?

And why do you post the fictional Gray Line under this thread instead of Metra?

You aren't consistent on anything.

[MetroShadow]

So, will this mean that the Red Line Extension and RedPurple Moderization be easier or harder to jump start

No, but clearly the frustration of the lack of a collective regional plan is needed in the region. The article is not even relevant (maybe 5%) to the topic because while we have the opportunity to discuss the merits of an alternate plan, the last thing we need is to (1) Foam, or (2) go off track.

And while Mike does have *A* plan, I doubt the cost/benefit would outweigh using what we've got (and only if it's for 150+ days).

[CURRENTZ_09]

CURRENTZ_09....I'm curious...."top the Halsted meeting" in what way??

Dvaid H.

the classic statements by the public and the non response by Cta officials

[CURRENTZ_09]

Seems like everybody comes out to do nothing but criticize, and condemn CTA for A N Y and A L L reasons (and like CURRENTZ said - get laughed at) - sounds like a "Saturday Night Live" skit, VERY amusing.

I'm not aware of any others having an actual Alternative Plan to present to CTA - just "bitchin".

I have an actual, detailed Plan to present; and ANYBODY ELSE can submit one (or many) of their own too.

can we see ur plan?

[chicagopcclcar]

the classic statements by the public and the non response by Cta officials

Do you agree that half of the people were talking about things other than the Red line Track Project? I don't think the CTA officials should be expected to respond to remarks not related to the subject of the conference/hearing. True, there were some comments about CTA service in general, that had nothing to do with the Red line project, but because these are CTA officials, they have to respond to those comments.

A lot of those people you saw standing around were CTA managers and officials who are there to be called upon by the president or the chairman if needed. They should be called upon to give expert testimony more often. But if you watch similar hearings with the mayor of Chicago or the police chief, etc, you see these "experts" in the background and they don't talk either. Its sort of a Chicago style of hearing.... the leader as spokesperson does all the talking or in the case f the Red line meetings, th chair and the president does the talking. They supposedly were pre-briefed by their staff. I don't know what happens in other cities since I never see their hearings.

We should draw up a scorecard and record the meeting and give 'em a grade....A, B, C, D or F.

David H.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Do you agree that half of the people were talking about things other than the Red line Track Project? I don't think the CTA officials should be expected to respond to remarks not related to the subject of the conference/hearing. True, there were some comments about CTA service in general, that had nothing to do with the Red line project, but because these are CTA officials, they have to respond to those comments.

A lot of those people you saw standing around were CTA managers and officials who are there to be called upon by the president or the chairman if needed. They should be called upon to give expert testimony more often. But if you watch similar hearings with the mayor of Chicago or the police chief, etc, you see these "experts" in the background and they don't talk either. Its sort of a Chicago style of hearing.... the leader as spokesperson does all the talking or in the case f the Red line meetings, th chair and the president does the talking. They supposedly were pre-briefed by their staff. I don't know what happens in other cities since I never see their hearings.

We should draw up a scorecard and record the meeting and give 'em a grade....A, B, C, D or F.

David H.

If claypool would talk to the people instead of giving a 15 min slide show to embarrass people then it might be a better discussion all around. Its interesting that u say the officals show up just to stand there. I find that insulting u could talk to the riders that experience cta daily. All their doing is collecting a cta appearance check. SHAME CTA SHAME

[Busjack]

Do you agree that half of the people were talking about things other than the Red line Track Project? ...

A lot of those people you saw standing around were CTA managers and officials who are there to be called upon by the president or the chairman if needed. They should be called upon to give expert testimony more often. But if you watch similar hearings with the mayor of Chicago or the police chief, etc, you see these "experts" in the background and they don't talk either. Its sort of a Chicago style of hearing....

David H.

If claypool would talk to the people instead of giving a 15 min slide show to embarrass people then it might be a better discussion all around. ...

That's a change for Claypool. Huberman was known for Powerpoint; up until now, Claypool hasn't put a President's Report on the CTA website.

As David indicates, someone gave him the stuff, and he was put in front to present it, but probably doesn't know enough about the substance, nor to let the staff member take the podium.*

I didn't go to the meeting, but I suppose that there is little to keep a public meeting on topic.

I'm still waiting for them to announce one around 95th St. That one will certainly be a doozy.

_____________

*You'll note that the front page includes Kevin Z's observation that Claypool was accompanied by Brian Steele; Patrick Barry for the CTA Tattler didn't note that, but said that somehow Claypool "spoke with authority."

[Kevin]

Please use this thread only for discussions concerning the Red Line South Track Renewal Project. If you wish to discuss other topics, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum. Thank you for cooperation.

[CURRENTZ_09]

A

That's a change for Claypool. Huberman was known for Powerpoint; up until now, Claypool hasn't put a President's Report on the CTA website.

As David indicates, someone gave him the stuff, and he was put in front to present it, but probably doesn't know enough about the substance, nor to let the staff member take the podium.

I didn't go to the meeting, but I suppose that there is little to keep a public meeting on topic.

I'm still waiting for them to announce one around 95th St. That one will certainly be a doozy.

And the cta will keep that in serecy until the actual date, which i will DEFINITELY ATTEND, but this one will be a showstopper because of the Chinese community and its impact on this project. But 95 meeting will give Terry and Forrest a run for their cta paychecks, i wouldn't be surprised if mayor emanuel made an appearance at the 95 meeting. Expect the Cermak meeting to have turnout, trust me if cta is hiding project community meeting the people will travel to voice their opinion.

[jajuan]

I'm wondering how they'll handle the South Lake Express reroutings during the Taste of Chicago next year considering it was reported the start date for the Dan Ryan Renewal is sometime in May of next year meaning the Taste will fall maybe halfway through the project if they keep on time with the proposed five month time frame. They're already pushing those routes as part of the alternatives to Dan Ryan service during the project and during Taste time their current way of doing things is to send all those routes down State Street to enter the Stevenson at 25th to get to Lake Shore. Makes you wonder how that will blow over with South siders that two months into sacrificing more time into their daily commutes while the Dan Ryan is rebuilt, they'll be asked to spend even more time commuting in hectic rush traffic if CTA tries using that reroute structure instead of just using Roosevelt and the Columbus Drive entrance to the Drive as they used to up to these last couple of years when the Taste was in place. Granted it probably would only be a week like this year's rerouting, but with the Dan Ryan work at full steam then, I'm hazarding a guess it wouldn't sit well to route the buses all on State to 25th adding more time to their commute. I viewed the traffic on State today as I was waiting for a 144 to get back home, and with the affect of this reroute in place already traffic was not pretty at all.

[Mike Payne]

I'm wondering how they'll handle the South Lake Express reroutings during the Taste of Chicago next year considering it was reported the start date for the Dan Ryan Renewal is sometime in May of next year meaning the Taste will fall maybe halfway through the project if they keep on time with the proposed five month time frame. They're already pushing those routes as part of the alternatives to Dan Ryan service during the project and during Taste time their current way of doing things is to send all those routes down State Street to enter the Stevenson at 25th to get to Lake Shore. Makes you wonder how that will blow over with South siders that two months into sacrificing more time into their daily commutes while the Dan Ryan is rebuilt, they'll be asked to spend even more time commuting in hectic rush traffic if CTA tries using that reroute structure instead of just using Roosevelt and the Columbus Drive entrance to the Drive as they used to up to these last couple of years when the Taste was in place. Granted it probably would only be a week like this year's rerouting, but with the Dan Ryan work at full steam then, I'm hazarding a guess it wouldn't sit well to route the buses all on State to 25th adding more time to their commute. I viewed the traffic on State today as I was waiting for a 144 to get back home, and with the affect of this reroute in place already traffic was not pretty at all.

The MED passes right through Grant Park on a completely Grade-separated ROW, with a station at Van Buren; and the Jackson Blvd. MED exit is just East of Michigan Ave.

Jackson Blvd. is usually the Main Entrance to Taste, and East of Michigan Ave. where the MED station exit discharges is usually the Pedestrian only Taste Entrance area already: http://goo.gl/maps/fNfi

Passengers alighting from MED trains could enter Taste directly, without crossing or encountering any street traffic; nor would the trains carrying them. And riders leaving Taste could enter at Van Buren East of Michigan Ave.

[Mike Payne]

can we see ur plan?

Here is the basic idea that I stated to the CTA Board several weeks ago, I will fill in with more details soon:

RECENTLY CTA ANNOUNCED a 5 MONTH SHUTDOWN of the entire South Side Red Line from Chinatown to 95th St.

CTA plans to use "Shuttle Buses" (Express and Local) to replace the Red Line service -- This plan however is fraught with possibilitys for disaster: A traffic accident, a fire, bad weather and/or storms -- MANY things could easily disrupt such a service, and cause thousands to be late for (or miss) their jobs, or important events. Residents living in Altgeld Gardens could face 3 hour trips Downtown.

At just about any large event - CTA can assign portable Fare Boxes (at the back door of buses, and/or additional spaces in an 'L' station, like at Addison on the Red Line).

With MINIMAL changes to the EXISTING Metra Electric Infrastructure, you could assign CTA Staff with Portable Fareboxes (and a Metra Cop) at the bottom of the MED station stairs (111th, 103rd, 95th, 87th, 83rd, 79th, 75th, etc., etc., etc.......), or in the station house -- to control access to the platforms, and then just run the MED trains more frequently - every 10 minutes or so. Only existing CTA Fare instruments (Transit Card, Chicago Card, U-Pass, Transit Passes, etc....) would be utilized - with no new Fare instruments needed to be created.

Since there would be NO on-board fare collection, or inspection; MED trains of any length could operate with just a 2 man crew (FRA Class I RR Regulations). This service would terminate at 111th St., so as not to interfere with Metra University Park and NICTD trains.

NO (or fewer) "Shuttle Buses" would be needed, and as an added benefit Far South riders would not have to ride down to 95th St. to transfer to a "Shuttle", to transfer to the Green Line at Garfield, to finally get where their going (3 vehicle changes, no matter what the fare situation).

CTA and Pace bus routes from the Far South (#'s 34, 103, 106, 108, 111, 112, 352, 353, etc., etc...) could Terminate at 111th & Cottage Grove instead of 95th & State -- GREATLY reducing travel times and fuel usage:

http://goo.gl/maps/02gk

Look at how much closer it is coming from the South - compared to going to 95th and State (even coming over from Halsted St.):

http://goo.gl/maps/IBci

CTA and Metra should consider this idea, because once the PUBLIC gets ahold of the possibility of a R A I L alternative, I don't think they will be satisfied with just "Shuttle Buses"!

[CURRENTZ_09]

Here is the basic idea that I stated to the CTA Board several weeks ago, I will fill in with more details soon:

RECENTLY CTA ANNOUNCED a 5 MONTH SHUTDOWN of the entire South Side Red Line from Chinatown to 95th St.

CTA plans to use "Shuttle Buses" (Express and Local) to replace the Red Line service -- This plan however is fraught with possibilitys for disaster: A traffic accident, a fire, bad weather and/or storms -- MANY things could easily disrupt such a service, and cause thousands to be late for (or miss) their jobs, or important events. Residents living in Altgeld Gardens could face 3 hour trips Downtown.

At just about any large event - CTA can assign portable Fare Boxes (at the back door of buses, and/or additional spaces in an 'L' station, like at Addison on the Red Line).

With MINIMAL changes to the EXISTING Metra Electric Infrastructure, you could assign CTA Staff with Portable Fareboxes (and a Metra Cop) at the bottom of the MED station stairs (111th, 103rd, 95th, 87th, 83rd, 79th, 75th, etc., etc., etc.......), or in the station house -- to control access to the platforms, and then just run the MED trains more frequently - every 10 minutes or so. Only existing CTA Fare instruments (Transit Card, Chicago Card, U-Pass, Transit Passes, etc....) would be utilized - with no new Fare instruments needed to be created.

Since there would be NO on-board fare collection, or inspection; MED trains of any length could operate with just a 2 man crew (FRA Class I RR Regulations). This service would terminate at 111th St., so as not to interfere with Metra University Park and NICTD trains.

NO (or fewer) "Shuttle Buses" would be needed, and as an added benefit Far South riders would not have to ride down to 95th St. to transfer to a "Shuttle", to transfer to the Green Line at Garfield, to finally get where their going (3 vehicle changes, no matter what the fare situation).

CTA and Pace bus routes from the Far South (#'s 34, 103, 106, 108, 111, 112, 352, 353, etc., etc...) could Terminate at 111th & Cottage Grove instead of 95th & State -- GREATLY reducing travel times and fuel usage:

http://goo.gl/maps/02gk

Look at how much closer it is coming from the South - compared to going to 95th and State (even coming over from Halsted St.):

http://goo.gl/maps/IBci

CTA and Metra should consider this idea, because once the PUBLIC gets ahold of the possibility of a R A I L alternative, I don't think they will be satisfied with just "Shuttle Buses"!

but here's just one MAJOR FLAW TO THIS COHESIVE PLAN? The CTA already made up its mind with there plan. They didnt integrate METRA & PACE IN 1996 and there not going to do it in spring 2013

[Mike Payne]

but here's just one MAJOR FLAW TO THIS COHESIVE PLAN? The CTA already made up its mind with there plan. They didnt integrate METRA & PACE IN 1996 and there not going to do it in spring 2013

Well, we'll see won't we? And like you said about the eventual Meeting on 95th St. (probably at CSU), how do think those already ENRAGED folks will react to a CTA rejection of a R A I L alternative (using their present CTA Fare media with no additional charges, inspections, or procedures); as in "No - we're not interested in doing that" - NEXT

And Terry Peterson stated directly (to Mr. Gator Bradley) at the South Shore Cultural Center that they would "find a way to work with Metra - to run Metra trains 24 hours if necessary", and I'm sure that dialog is probably documented and posted somewhere (CTA Minutes?).

And in 1996 they weren't Forcing a VERY UNhappy Public to accept the 5-month shutdown of the SOLE Major Rapid-Transit artery of a Whole Quadrant of the City - as they are in 2013.

[jajuan]

The MED passes right through Grant Park on a completely Grade-separated ROW, with a station at Van Buren; and the Jackson Blvd. MED exit is just East of Michigan Ave.

Jackson Blvd. is usually the Main Entrance to Taste, and East of Michigan Ave. where the MED station exit discharges is usually the Pedestrian only Taste Entrance area already: http://goo.gl/maps/fNfi

Passengers alighting from MED trains could enter Taste directly, without crossing or encountering any street traffic; nor would the trains carrying them. And riders leaving Taste could enter at Van Buren East of Michigan Ave.

Uh thanks for the response but I meant how it CTA going to handle its end since not everyone is going to choose Metra or necessarily lives near one of the Metra lines.