Busjack Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 With CTA cutting here and there, I'm surprised they haven't gone to making alot of the routes share between garages. (maybe this is an attempt at that) Seems weird that one part of the route ends at for example 9:30PM and other parts can end an hour or hour an a half later. This way if they have a garage at each end services would just end in unison. It would seem to be more efficient especially on the longer routes. Some sharing of garages was imposed by the 2010 cuts, but not to the extent you suggest. In effect, it would be similar to when some Halsted runs were out of 77th and others from Limits. Maybe some of this is now accomplished by going back to the split of 49 between North Park and 74th (previously 69th). The main route where things seem unbalanced now is Ashland, where, since all runs are out of 74th, the northbound and southbound owl hours are really influenced by that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Take it for what its worth.This is the feedback i got from the Cta over Route 165 Thank you for your comments. Your information has been forwarded to our Service Planning Department for consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta_44499_FG Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Some sharing of garages was imposed by the 2010 cuts, but not to the extent you suggest. In effect, it would be similar to when some Halsted runs were out of 77th and others from Limits. Maybe some of this is now accomplished by going back to the split of 49 between North Park and 74th (previously 69th). So is the case with some 82 Kimball/Homan runs. Some buses start/end and pullin from Lincolnwood Town Center or Devon/Kedzie and operate out of North Park. After 2000 hrs, only one North Park run remains on the street (and actually operating to 31st and Komensky for that matter), and pulls in from Devon/Kedzie at almost 0030 hours. Hence, why have a 'K' run do so and operate back to Jackson when there already is no one out there at that hour and run in service to that point for nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 So is the case with some 82 Kimball/Homan runs. Some buses start/end and pullin from Lincolnwood Town Center or Devon/Kedzie and operate out of North Park. After 2000 hrs, only one North Park run remains on the street (and actually operating to 31st and Komensky for that matter), and pulls in from Devon/Kedzie at almost 0030 hours. Hence, why have a 'K' run do so and operate back to Jackson when there already is no one out there at that hour and run in service to that point for nothing? I'm guessing the justification is those people living north of Jackson still have at least one more partial trip to cover part of a trip between home and work for example, Kedzie being the main garage for the 82 aside, which would be the obviouse main reason. It's similar to the 50 getting assigned to North Park and the 94 being mainlly assigned to Chicago with backup from 74th after Archer closed. Those garage assignments give riders who use those routes the benefit of slightly later service than they had under the other assignments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 So is the case with some 82 Kimball/Homan runs. Some buses start/end and pullin from Lincolnwood Town Center or Devon/Kedzie and operate out of North Park. After 2000 hrs, only one North Park run remains on the street (and actually operating to 31st and Komensky for that matter), and pulls in from Devon/Kedzie at almost 0030 hours. Hence, why have a 'K' run do so and operate back to Jackson when there already is no one out there at that hour and run in service to that point for nothing? I been at the Blue line Station at Belmont between midnite and 1AM there has been anywhere from 5 to 10 people getting on the buses in both direction Also,a pack Westbound Belmont bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I been at the Blue line Station at Belmont between midnite and 1AM there has been anywhere from 5 to 10 people getting on the buses in both direction Also,a pack Westbound Belmont bus The #77, #80, and the #81 could use some artics, but with FG not able to house them that poses a problem. The only way they could get artics would be to share garage assignments. I would think most of the 48 routes designated as overcrowded will end up with a few artics here and there. 74th garage has some routes that could really benefit from getting artics. The #9, #55, #63 always seem to be overcrowded, but there is only so many places they could put artics at 74th garage, being it's smaller size. Maybe they could share more of those routes with 77th that could tap into a bigger storage space. 74th could end up taking some of the lower performing 77th routes like the #24. Fg could also take over some of the lower performing Np service towards it's western service area. They would have to do something like that to juggle the demand for extra buses in foreign territory. I think more artics may actually turn out to be a better solution than the decrowding initiative. I just don't see how 48 extra buses will bail them out. (thinking about the 300 they canned in 2009) It seems like a fractional improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 The #77, #80, and the #81 could use some artics, but with FG not able to house them that poses a problem. The only way they could get artics would be to share garage assignments. I would think most of the 48 routes designated as overcrowded will end up with a few artics here and there. 74th garage has some routes that could really benefit from getting artics. The #9, #55, #63 always seem to be overcrowded, but there is only so many places they could put artics at 74th garage, being it's smaller size. Maybe they could share more of those routes with 77th that could tap into a bigger storage space. 74th could end up taking some of the lower performing 77th routes like the #24. Fg could also take over some of the lower performing Np service towards it's western service area. They would have to do something like that to juggle the demand for extra buses in foreign territory. I think more artics may actually turn out to be a better solution than the decrowding initiative. I just don't see how 48 extra buses will bail them out. (thinking about the 300 they canned in 2009) It seems like a fractional improvement. I wouldn't place bets on it being most routes out of that 48 getting a few artics until AFTER the actual number of artics increase beyond the current 208. To think it'll come from this December restructuring is far fetched at best since the number of artics freed up from the 145 won't stretch that far especially if they go into beefed up service on the 134, 135, 146 and 147. Even increased service on the 6 would probably be done with 40 foot buses more on the route in light of the 14 being redesignated as the J14 by then and quite likely going to all artics since that seems to be the consensus of type of bus used on that route by then. (Though BRT style service doesn't automatically mean all artic as evidenced by NF also having made 40 foot BRT buses for other cities as well as artics in the BRT style. ) Will there be increased sharing between garages? Sure there's a good chance, but what you'll most like see is more spreading of the Novas and 1000s before anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wouldn't place bets on it being most routes out of that 48 getting a few artics until AFTER the actual number of artics increase beyond the current 208. To think it'll come from this December restructuring is far fetched at best since the number of artics freed up from the 145 won't stretch that far especially if they go into beefed up service on the 134, 135, 146 and 147. Even increased service on the 6 would probably be done with 40 foot buses more on the route in light of the 14 being redesignated as the J14 by then and quite likely going to all artics since that seems to be the consensus of type of bus used on that route by then. (Though BRT style service doesn't automatically mean all artic as evidenced by NF also having made 40 foot BRT buses for other cities as well as artics in the BRT style. ) Will there be increased sharing between garages? Sure there's a good chance, but what you'll most like see is more spreading of the Novas and 1000s before anything else. What about the first of the artics due to arrive late this year? Not too far from December Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 What about the first of the artics due to arrive late this year? Not too far from December Again I noted that there was a strange coincidence between having to acquire 100 options, and the need for 100 buses for the Red Line shutdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Again I noted that there was a strange coincidence between having to acquire 100 options, and the need for 100 buses for the Red Line shutdown. Exactly which is why I wouldn't consider those yet. They will all too likely be tied up doing the five Dan Ryan shuttles during the South Red Line renovation that five months minimum the section is scheduled to be closed in the second half of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I wouldn't place bets on it being most routes out of that 48 getting a few artics until AFTER the actual number of artics increase beyond the current 208. To think it'll come from this December restructuring is far fetched at best since the number of artics freed up from the 145 won't stretch that far especially if they go into beefed up service on the 134, 135, 146 and 147. Even increased service on the 6 would probably be done with 40 foot buses more on the route in light of the 14 being redesignated as the J14 by then and quite likely going to all artics since that seems to be the consensus of type of bus used on that route by then. (Though BRT style service doesn't automatically mean all artic as evidenced by NF also having made 40 foot BRT buses for other cities as well as artics in the BRT style. ) Will there be increased sharing between garages? Sure there's a good chance, but what you'll most like see is more spreading of the Novas and 1000s before anything else. Weird cause the X28's been run with quite a few artics lately. Seen at least 6 of them today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Weird cause the X28's been run with quite a few artics lately. Seen at least 6 of them today But still outnumbered by the 1000s. I would say the number of 1000s that have been appearing on the 6 is probably more out of place than one would be used to seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I wouldn't place bets on it being most routes out of that 48 getting a few artics until AFTER the actual number of artics increase beyond the current 208. To think it'll come from this December restructuring is far fetched at best since the number of artics freed up from the 145 won't stretch that far especially if they go into beefed up service on the 134, 135, 146 and 147. Even increased service on the 6 would probably be done with 40 foot buses more on the route in light of the 14 being redesignated as the J14 by then and quite likely going to all artics since that seems to be the consensus of type of bus used on that route by then. (Though BRT style service doesn't automatically mean all artic as evidenced by NF also having made 40 foot BRT buses for other cities as well as artics in the BRT style. ) Will there be increased sharing between garages? Sure there's a good chance, but what you'll most like see is more spreading of the Novas and 1000s before anything else. I was speaking more in terms of when they get the artics. The 100 should be arriving around Dec. The winter pick most likely has a few light changes, probably not enough to be effective. The core of the changes will happen next year when more orders come in and the Ryan shutdown ends. I really don't see the decrowding initiative doing much. Hopefully they can get some artics going before they discover this. I can't help but wonder otherwise if there will be decrowding initiative part 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I was speaking more in terms of when they get the artics. The 100 should be arriving around Dec. The winter pick most likely has a few light changes, probably not enough to be effective. The core of the changes will happen next year when more orders come in and the Ryan shutdown ends. I really don't see the decrowding initiative doing much. Hopefully they can get some artics going before they discover this. I can't help but wonder otherwise if there will be decrowding initiative part 2. They are likely to put the 100 to use in some form as they trickle in before the Dan Ryan shutdown, but their main use is undoubtedly going to be the Dan Ryan shuttlws. I would still look to after the Dan Ryan renovation for any real shift to how artics are deployed among the routes. That should be in time for the addition sliding number of 50 to 150 artics among the combined order to start being delivered after the process with finalizing the contract,getting production schedules agreed upon and set, and whatever else comes into play after awarding a bus purchase contract is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 They are likely to put the 100 to use in some form as they trickle in before the Dan Ryan shutdown, but their main use is undoubtedly going to be the Dan Ryan shuttlws. I would still look to after the Dan Ryan renovation for any real shift to how artics are deployed among the routes. That should be in time for the addition sliding number of 50 to 150 artics among the combined order to start being delivered after the process with finalizing the contract,getting production schedules agreed upon and set, and whatever else comes into play after awarding a bus purchase contract is complete. The question I come up with is what do the Novas do a few months before the Ryan shutdown? Do they go in storage for a month or two and come back. Also is the Ryan shutdown only going to require buses from 77th? I would think 100 extra buses may be spread across 103rd, 77th and 74th, if not there going to have a garage with 400 buses. That may be a heavy burden on garage personnel. If so, it may also be possible that 74th's cut would be 40 footers not artics. Which would put part of the 100 elsewhere. we'll have to see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yesterday I saw 3 Belmont buses back to back.Adding buses on route won't do any good til this problem is fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Kevin, would it be possible to put this topic as a Sticky? From the Pace thread: Each Alderman is given 1.2 million to use for there Ward.Why not ask the Alderman to use that money for it. I don't think the Aldercreature will put all of his discretionary ward spending towards a route. Even though we know (and maybe he knows) the route's function is legitimate, I'm not sure if it'll be feasible to do so... ...correct me if I'm wrong: He's not one of the few that does an ward budgetary priority town hall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm trying to give him a idea to save the route. At the end of the day its the Alderman to give the people what they want. Replying to this and Metro Shadow, there was an article in the Patch that the annual operating cost is $3.2 million. Thus, even assuming that an alderman has $1.2 million of "mad money," which I doubt, that alderman would have to forgo all capital improvements in the ward, and still wouldn't have enough money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm not sure if he is. But,it does effect the 32 and 47 ward. I haven't heard nothing new. If you ask me i think Emanuel has enough campaign money to pay for the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroShadow Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I'm not sure if he is. But,it does effect the 32 and 47 ward. I haven't heard nothing new. If you ask me i think Emanuel has enough campaign money to pay for the service. He lacks the political capital to make it work (outside of a total stronghold). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkohut Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Replying to this and Metro Shadow, there was an article in the Patch that the annual operating cost is $3.2 million. Thus, even assuming that an alderman has $1.2 million of "mad money," which I doubt, that alderman would have to forgo all capital improvements in the ward, and still wouldn't have enough money. The 3.2 million is for the whole route.That being said you still have service in some parts of the route so its unknown how much is needed . With this being a big issue for the alderman one way or another they will find the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 . With this being a big issue for the alderman one way or another they will find the money. I've indicated before (mostly to sw) that this is an issue more of clout than money. Some ancient alderman in the area west of Midway can stop CTA restructurings in his ward. However, there are a whole bunch of new aldermen in the "lakefront wards" who think things like CTA is an independent agency. sw's alderman is aware of the situation on Lincoln, and sw is working him, but he doesn't appear to have clout. Of course, Dick Mell had a community group that was sniveling about the temporary station closures on the Brown Line, but they didn't get the North Kedzie bus reinstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Pace already agreed to eliminate service on King Drive if CTA takes over.It will be interesting to see if South Michigan riders north of 111th, will start using King Drive since the CTA switch, which means all passes will be accepted. I guess you were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimball401 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Now I just got back from vacation, so I'm curious. Since RTA got majority of the funds for CTA, is these service cuts gonna continue or is it on hold again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Now I just got back from vacation, so I'm curious. Since RTA got majority of the funds for CTA, is these service cuts gonna continue or is it on hold again? Still going through. Had nothing to do with the RTA issue. Its just a plan to add service to other routes by cutting others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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