7900-series Nova LFS - Updates

[TaylorTank1229]

7920 at the south shops

So does this mean that the first few 7900s will be assigned to 74th?

[jajuan]

So does this mean that the first few 7900s will be assigned to 74th?

No. Not necessarily. All it means at this point is that CTA took delivery of a number of 7900s so far that have yet to go into revenue service because they haven't gone through all whatever final checks and preparations CTA needs to make. 7900 is the only one confirmed to have a farebox installed since it did test runs on the 65 and then the 24. When they go into service, we'll know which garage got them first.

[Busjack]

No. Not necessarily. All it means at this point is that CTA took delivery of a number of 7900s so far that have yet to go into revenue service because they haven't gone through all whatever final checks and preparations CTA needs to make. 7900 is the only one confirmed to have a farebox installed since it did test runs on the 65 and then the 24. When they go into service, we'll know which garage got them first.

Yes. Also the specs indicate that while there should be wiring for the gps and Ventra readers, those have to be installed by CTA.

[Around the Horn]

Did you know there is a #7900 paper bus out on the net.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dariuspinkston/12814573905/in/photostream/

I guess it's time to start a #7900's list (last updated 6/14/14)

#7900 pilot bus arrived at South Shops 2/3/14, was entered into test service out of Chicago garage on the #65 from 4/9/14 to 5/7/14 , then it tested at 77th garage for one day, 5/19/14, on the #24, presently testing at South Shops

#7901 arrived at South Shops 2/3/14, was tested internally, not yet placed into service

#7904 arrived at South Shops 6/10/14, not yet placed into service

cta 7904.jpg* cta 7904side.jpg*

#7920 arrived at South Shops around 6/10/14, not yet placed into service

cta 7920.jpg

(photo courtesy of Kimball401)

#7927 arrived at South Shops 6/10/14, not yet placed into service

* - photos courtesy of Garmon757

Its been out for a while now...

[Mr.cta85]

7904 and 20 are sitting by the fence at 77th garage I had a great shot of them I could've took but didn't crap!!! Lol but they look great up close they actually look shorter than 40ft for some odd reason maybe cause the new Novas have more on top which makes them look shorter but either way they look great I would love to drive one but who knows which garage they'll be at. Over all great looking bus good job cta. Another thing, I wonder will cta make a big order of 40fters with nova again once it's time to replace the 1000 series new flyers in the next 6-10 yrs from now. That's a lot of buses to replace considering its over a 1000 of them lol but it's just a thought.

[ChicagoNova]

7904 and 20 are sitting by the fence at 77th garage I had a great shot of them I could've took but didn't crap!!! Lol but they look great up close they actually look shorter than 40ft for some odd reason maybe cause the new Novas have more on top which makes them look shorter but either way they look great I would love to drive one but who knows which garage they'll be at. Over all great looking bus good job cta. Another thing, I wonder will cta make a big order of 40fters with nova again once it's time to replace the 1000 series new flyers in the next 6-10 yrs from now. That's a lot of buses to replace considering its over a 1000 of them lol but it's just a thought.

I was thinking the same thing.

[garmon757]

7904 and 20 are sitting by the fence at 77th garage I had a great shot of them I could've took but didn't crap!!! Lol but they look great up close they actually look shorter than 40ft for some odd reason maybe cause the new Novas have more on top which makes them look shorter but either way they look great I would love to drive one but who knows which garage they'll be at. Over all great looking bus good job cta. Another thing, I wonder will cta make a big order of 40fters with nova again once it's time to replace the 1000 series new flyers in the next 6-10 yrs from now. That's a lot of buses to replace considering its over a 1000 of them lol but it's just a thought.

Man, that would be a tough call if they would to have new Novas replacing 1000s NF's. It's like saying hell, let's have new Novas artics replace the 4000s. :p

[ChicagoNova]

Man, that would be a tough call if they would to have new Novas replacing 1000s NF's. It's like saying hell, let's have new Novas artics replace the 4000s.

I wish they would.

[jajuan]

7904 and 20 are sitting by the fence at 77th garage I had a great shot of them I could've took but didn't crap!!! Lol but they look great up close they actually look shorter than 40ft for some odd reason maybe cause the new Novas have more on top which makes them look shorter but either way they look great I would love to drive one but who knows which garage they'll be at. Over all great looking bus good job cta. Another thing, I wonder will cta make a big order of 40fters with nova again once it's time to replace the 1000 series new flyers in the next 6-10 yrs from now. That's a lot of buses to replace considering its over a 1000 of them lol but it's just a thought.

After all the clammering about CTA getting over 1000 NF 40 foot buses back when the fleet was still even more diverse than it is now, I doubt very many people want CTA to have ALL its 40 foot buses be Novas.

[Busjack]

After all the clammering about CTA getting over 1000 NF 40 foot buses back when the fleet was still even more diverse than it is now, I doubt very many people want CTA to have ALL its 40 foot buses be Novas.

The only relevant thing is that by the time the 1000s would be ready for replacement (no earlier than 2018) there would need to be another solicitation, and by then who knows that manufacturers will be around, and, of course, who will bid. The saga of the 7000s should tell you as much.

[sw4400]

I think the 7900's contract was given to Nova Bus as an ice breaker, so-to-speak. CTA already had 1,050 New Flyer D40LF's, 208 New Flyer DE60LF's and 100 New Flyer DE60LFR's(33) and D60LFR's(67). I haven't seen the bids put out for the contract, but the wording about it stating that other bus manufacturers will be considered(not exactly those words) told me that perhaps CTA wanted to shake things up a bit as far as bus models on Chicago streets(I don't think Nova Bus was the lowest bidder... I think it was New Flyer again).

Does that mean that Nova might get a contract to start replacing some of the oldest New Flyer D40LF's when their time for retirement comes? Who really knows... there might be a third or forth bus company that attracts the CTA's attention at the time.

[Busjack]

I think the 7900's contract was given to Nova Bus as an ice breaker, so-to-speak....

There is no indication of that. A procurement in the form of a "standard bus procurement guidelines" was put out, various bidders including Nova and NF responded in the Q&A, and despite numerous "we kindly request"s from Prevost being denied, Nova got the contract.

Anything else, and there would have been a protest to the FTA, sort of similar to when there was a protest to the FTA in the late 1980s for bids on buses based on a specification that would have excluded everyone but MAN. Also, there would have been a stink similar to when Hilkevitch exposed that CTA was trying to give Bombardier a no bid contract to convert 3200s into 5000s (which didn't happen after it was exposed).

There isn't an Al Piemonte Nova dealership, if you think that is how it works.

[ctrabs74]

There is no indication of that. A procurement in the form of a "standard bus procurement guidelines" was put out, various bidders including Nova and NF responded in the Q&A, and despite numerous "we kindly request"s from Prevost being denied, Nova got the contract.

Anything else, and there would have been a protest to the FTA, sort of similar to when there was a protest to the FTA in the late 1980s for bids on buses based on a specification that would have excluded everyone but MAN. Also, there would have been a stink similar to when Hilkevitch exposed that CTA was trying to give Bombardier a no bid contract to convert 3200s into 5000s (which didn't happen after it was exposed).

There isn't an Al Piemonte Nova dealership, if you think that is how it works.

By Prevost, wouldn't you mean NovaBUS, since Prevost is Nova's parent company?

[sw4400]

By Prevost, wouldn't you mean NovaBUS, since Prevost is Nova's parent company?

Prevost is just a division of Nova Bus. The parent company, and owner of Nova Bus and Prevost is Volvo Bus Corporation, which bought Nova Bus in 2004, but had some input in the 6400's we got in 2000-2002(accelerator pedals say "Volvo" on them).

Link

[Busjack]

By Prevost, wouldn't you mean NovaBUS, since Prevost is Nova's parent company?

Yes. I might have been writing off the top of my head about who posed the questions reflected in the addendum, but there certainly was one "We kindly request to reduce the performance bond requirement.... a proposer who is as a wholly owned subsidiary of a well established company," so you get my drift.

Prevost is just a division of Nova Bus. The parent company, and owner of Nova Bus and Prevost is Volvo Bus Corporation, which bought Nova Bus in 2004, but had some input in the 6400's we got in 2000-2002(accelerator pedals say "Volvo" on them).

Link

Backwards. Nova is a division of Prevost, which is a division of Volvo.

If you had looked at the Vendor Database, it says NOVA BUS LFS, A Division of Prevost Car US, Inc.*

It is sort of like that New Albertson's is not a division of Jewel.

_______

*In fact, this implies an even more complicated corporate structure, since Prevost itself is a Canadian company. However, I wasn't able to find a nonobtuse corporate chart.

[artthouwill]

There is no indication of that. A procurement in the form of a "standard bus procurement guidelines" was put out, various bidders including Nova and NF responded in the Q&A, and despite numerous "we kindly request"s from Prevost being denied, Nova got the contract.

Anything else, and there would have been a protest to the FTA, sort of similar to when there was a protest to the FTA in the late 1980s for bids on buses based on a specification that would have excluded everyone but MAN. Also, there would have been a stink similar to when Hilkevitch exposed that CTA was trying to give Bombardier a no bid contract to convert 3200s into 5000s (which didn't happen after it was exposed).

There isn't an Al Piemonte Nova dealership, if you think that is how it works.

True, but companies like Gillig and Eldorado somehow always seem to get excluded from bidding. What kind of specs do CTA require that seemingly puts them out of the picture even though both manufacturers are owned and based in the U.S?

[Busjack]

True, but companies like Gillig and Eldorado somehow always seem to get excluded from bidding. What kind of specs do CTA require that seemingly puts them out of the picture even though both manufacturers are owned and based in the U.S?

I'm not sure. CTA's specs are in the form of the standard bus procurement guidelines, but there must be something in them that provoked all the denied requests in the Q&A. The only obvious thing was that the structure warranty provoked a response that Chicago uses an especially corrosive form of road salt, but I guess some automotive engineer could go through the 300+ pages of specs and find other things.

[geneking7320]

I'm not sure. CTA's specs are in the form of the standard bus procurement guidelines, but there must be something in them that provoked all the denied requests in the Q&A. The only obvious thing was that the structure warranty provoked a response that Chicago uses an especially corrosive form of road salt, but I guess some automotive engineer could go through the 300+ pages of specs and find other things.

I somehow got the idea [rightly or wrongly] that Gillig avoided bidding on contracts for certain operators thought to be difficult.

Would someone have to do freedom of information paperwork to see who bid on CTA's buses?

[Busjack]

I somehow got the idea [rightly or wrongly] that Gillig avoided bidding on contracts for certain operators thought to be difficult.

Would someone have to do freedom of information paperwork to see who bid on CTA's buses?

Normally, that should be available after the contract is let. However, since the articulated bus portion of this contract has not, I don't think you will even get that (exempt under section 7(h) of the Act):

Proposals and bids for any contract, grant, or agreement, including information which if it were disclosed would frustrate procurement or give an advantage to any person proposing to enter into a contractor agreement with the body, until an award or final selection is made.

.The diction of the questions in the addendum indicates that there was a block of questions not identifiable to Nova (the bond one mentioned before) or NF (reference to XD60), but that doesn't reveal that there was a third bidder, although it does reveal that whoever was asking was interested in the specs for a 60 foot bus. I can't imagine who else provided 60 foot buses in this market other than NABI, but by then they should have known not to bother.

The last implies that while the Q&A established that separate contracts could be awarded, the solicitation was still for 40 and 60 foot buses, and thus may have discouraged the potential bidders art mentioned.

[jajuan]

That kind of sucks because Art does make a valid point that about New Flyer and NOVABus being the only two manufacturers these days almost automatically at the top of the list because of the specs in recent CTA bids managing to exclude other decent manufacturers (I don't think anyone would cry over NABI not being in any running even if they are now a division of New Flyer). Pace manages to make up for it having Gillig and Eldorado buses as part of their past and current rosters. Plus Gillig is a supplier of parts for their current 40 foot Eldos. So the Chicago area isn't completely devoid of those two manufacturers Art mentioned when you expand outward from the city proper to the suburban areas.

[geneking7320]

That kind of sucks because Art does make a valid point that about New Flyer and NOVABus being the only two manufacturers these days almost automatically at the top of the list because of the specs in recent CTA bids managing to exclude other decent manufacturers (I don't think anyone would cry over NABI not being in any running even if they are now a division of New Flyer). Pace manages to make up for it having Gillig and Eldorado buses as part of their past and current rosters. Plus Gillig is a supplier of parts for their current 40 foot Eldos. So the Chicago area isn't completely devoid of those two manufacturers Art mentioned when you expand outward from the city proper to the suburban areas.

I wouldn't mind CTA buying some 40ft Gilligs like those Free Enterprise System is operating for NU.

[yes I prefer them to Novas ]

[jajuan]

I wouldn't mind CTA buying some 40ft Gilligs like those Free Enterprise System is operating for NU.

[yes I prefer them to Novas ]

Of course combining the planning departments would probably change the dynamic of New Flyers and Novas primarily in the city and Eldorado in the burbs, with those manufacturers' buses being 'on the other side of the line' by way of either agency's routes that operate near and/or across the city-suburb lines, when we look at the more recent bus acquisitions or as you alluded to from some third party private agency that has a shuttle contract with one of the local universities or downtown business highrises.

[Buslover88]

Looks like the 7900s might be starting revenue service. 7901 is doing #1 Bronzeville/Union Station at this moment according to BusTracker. Headed northbound into Downtown, approaching Roosevelt on Michigan Ave.

Update: Here's a picture of 7901 doing Rt. #1.

[Busjack]

If you notice on mel's pictures of #700, the floors are blue. I actually like the blue floors it brightens up the floor and gives it some color. I wonder if the #7900's would still possibly be delivered with the blue floors? #7900 was a test bus and the floor was kind of dull. Why not just put a jet black floor then like the #6000's, what is with the unfinished look?

Looking at the Q&A, the gray floors seems to be a Nova thing, and while CTA usually specifies blue floors, the Q&A indicate that what Nova proposed was acceptable (page P10, referring to composite floor).

BTW, Nova had an announcement that Toronto is getting 55 40 foot buses, pointing out they are apparently getting the same driver's barrier as the CTA buses.

[BusHunter]

Looks like the 7900s might be starting revenue service. 7901 is doing #1 Bronzeville/Union Station at this moment according to BusTracker. Headed northbound into Downtown, approaching Roosevelt on Michigan Ave.

Update: Here's a picture of 7901 doing Rt. #1. Screenshot 2014-06-23 at 7.14.57 AM.png

#7900's on the #52A at 115th/Springfield.