700-series XE40 - Deliveries & Assignments

[NewFlyerMCI]

They'll probably eventually run on all service out of Kedzie. If they ever ran the #12, that's looks to be the hardest route, but the #82 is pretty busy and right up there with it. These buses are showing they can run practically anywhere.

I'm guessing you're going by service levels. I'm interested to see how they would do on the 10, 134 and 143.

700's Sighting's so far:

#7

#82

#120 

#157

Most Likely Routes (IMO) to see 700's next:

#121

#125

#130

#19

#18

#126

[ctrabs0114]

 

 

 

Electric Buses are in trials throughout North America. one Canadian Transit Company ordered 4 all-electric buses to test, New York and Los Angeles are testing a all-electric articulated bus. CTA is testing 2 all-electric buses, and it's reported that Maryland Transit Authority is awaiting results of CTA's test of these buses.

 

The closest for the next few years is the Hybrid Diesel/Electric bus. Maybe in the 2020's, an all electric bus fleet might be possible, but varying factors will determine if they are right for Chicago...

 

• Daily Lifespan: Can they run throughout a typical day of use on routes on the charge in their batteries?
• Weather: Chicago weather can be harsh.... extreme cold & heat, flooding rains and deep snowfalls as well as road salt during the winter months. Can the buses operate without serious problems during these conditions?
• Bus Lifespan & Purchase Price: Can these buses keep on the road for a typical lifespan per FTA regulations(which is 12 years currently)? What would the cost be to overhaul an all-electric bus? Replacing electric drive motors, transmission, Lithium-Ion Batteries, etc... compared to overhauling a diesel/electric bus or a clean diesel bus(if they still exist in the next decade). I'm sure a transit agency would want the best for their customers and the best for the environment, but also the most affordable. If a Diesel/Electric bus is $650,000 and a all Electric Bus costs $975,000 for example, what might the CTA decide to purchase with funds secured for new vehicles, especially if they need to purchase a large quantity of the buses?

Indianapolis recently converted several of their Gillig low floor buses to all-electric buses:

http://www.indygo.net/inside-indygo/indygo-begins-building-largest-electric-bus-fleet-in-the-country/

http://www.indygo.net/press-releases/indygo-electric-buses-now-serving-passengers/

Edited July 22, 2015 by ctrabs0114
Added link

[Busjack]

Indianapolis recently converted several of their Gillig low floor buses to all-electric buses:

http://www.indygo.net/inside-indygo/indygo-begins-building-largest-electric-bus-fleet-in-the-country/

http://www.indygo.net/press-releases/indygo-electric-buses-now-serving-passengers/

That was discussed in connection with CTA selling the 900s to Complete Coach Works.

[busfan2847]

701 on the 126 this morning. Saw it at 7:39am eastbound crossing State St.

[NewFlyerMCI]

Routes with 700's:

#7

#52 (#700 is currently here on a trip to Jackson)

#82

#120 

#126

#157

[NewFlyerMCI]

Well, #701 is out here on #82. #82 and #52 are somewhat (definitely in the case of #82) taxing routes, distance-wise. I'm wondering what they'll be debuted on next.

[jajuan]

Routes with 700's:

#7

#52 (#700 is currently here on a trip to Jackson)

#82

#120 

#126

#157

I hadn't even realized that they moved these to any of Kedzie's heavy routes, what CTA calls core routes. I don't think distance though is as much an issue as is the route's passenger load, given #7 is one of the routes these debuted on in the very beginning and that's a fairly lengthy east-west route roughly the same length as 126, another recent addition in this next phase. Looking at how they chose 52, 82 and 126 among this phase's route use, it looks like they now want to see how they hold up with routes of relatively higher passenger load. Higher passenger load means higher dwell time, and higher dwell time means a longer overall time per trip. 

[Busjack]

...Higher passenger load means higher dwell time, and higher dwell time means a longer overall time per trip. 

But what they may be testing is since the bus doesn't idle, it may be saving battery power by the dwell time. Sort of similar theory to if the instant on/off on a hybrid bus worked.

[Guest]

They'll probably eventually run on all service out of Kedzie. If they ever ran the #12, that's looks to be the hardest route, but the #82 is pretty busy and right up there with it. These buses are showing they can run practically anywhere.

I still have  many of my run paddles from my CTA days as well as a few of my dads from the 1980s  I kept many of my Pace run paddles when I worked at Academy. If I can dig them out one Ill post them. 

[BusHunter]

I saw #701 in route to the town center, so I couldn't resist a round trip. Besides once fall pick comes it may not go there anymore, so opportunity was knocking. The bus just rolls down the street like a cloud, silent as a lamb. The AC was working good!! I was eyeing that NF in their design of the bus puts the vents on a 45 degree angle so the riders all get to feel a cool breeze not just the ones sitting by the window. The Xcelsior is a nice bus, it just reminds me so much of the Compobuses.

If their is a negative in the design of the Xcelsior, I was noticing the bus has alot of body roll and the springs are real bouncy. You know how the #5300 Flx's would bounce alot on the bumps. The Xcelsior bounces but it's a sideways motion. The bus hit an uneven spot at Lincoln/McCormick and the bus was bouncing left to right, right to left, just like a boat. About 3 to 4 rockings. Don't forget the dramamine!! The bus really took off on the Devon to town center segment. Acceleration is no problem. I did hear a loud click in the rear at Devon and then a generator started, but that was after a complete light cycle. The body roll was real apparent on turns especially the one into town center. You have to really take it easy. On exit the bus tipped like 30 degrees and it felt like it bottomed out on the wheel frames. The driver was going slow too. I can never get fascinated enough riding these. No wonder they want 25 more. Well here is some shots, even I caught the operator taking pictures!!

#701:

 

[jajuan]

I saw #701 in route to the town center, so I couldn't resist a round trip. Besides once fall pick comes it may not go there anymore, so opportunity was knocking. The bus just rolls down the street like a cloud, silent as a lamb. The AC was working good!! I was eyeing that NF in their design of the bus puts the vents on a 45 degree angle so the riders all get to feel a cool breeze not just the ones sitting by the window. The Xcelsior is a nice bus, it just reminds me so much of the Compobuses.

If their is a negative in the design of the Xcelsior, I was noticing the bus has alot of body roll and the springs are real bouncy. You know how the #5300 Flx's would bounce alot on the bumps. The Xcelsior bounces but it's a sideways motion. The bus hit an uneven spot at Lincoln/McCormick and the bus was bouncing left to right, right to left, just like a boat. About 3 to 4 rockings. Don't forget the dramamine!! The bus really took off on the Devon to town center segment. Acceleration is no problem. I did hear a loud click in the rear at Devon and then a generator started, but that was after a complete light cycle. The body roll was real apparent on turns especially the one into town center. You have to really take it easy. On exit the bus tipped like 30 degrees and it felt like it bottomed out on the wheel frames. The driver was going slow too. I can never get fascinated enough riding these. No wonder they want 25 more. Well here is some shots, even I caught the operator taking pictures!!

#701:

 

Was the driver getting her own picture of the bus right there?

[NewFlyerMCI]

I saw #701 in route to the town center, so I couldn't resist a round trip. Besides once fall pick comes it may not go there anymore, so opportunity was knocking. The bus just rolls down the street like a cloud, silent as a lamb. The AC was working good!! I was eyeing that NF in their design of the bus puts the vents on a 45 degree angle so the riders all get to feel a cool breeze not just the ones sitting by the window. The Xcelsior is a nice bus, it just reminds me so much of the Compobuses.

If their is a negative in the design of the Xcelsior, I was noticing the bus has alot of body roll and the springs are real bouncy. You know how the #5300 Flx's would bounce alot on the bumps. The Xcelsior bounces but it's a sideways motion. The bus hit an uneven spot at Lincoln/McCormick and the bus was bouncing left to right, right to left, just like a boat. About 3 to 4 rockings. Don't forget the dramamine!! The bus really took off on the Devon to town center segment. Acceleration is no problem. I did hear a loud click in the rear at Devon and then a generator started, but that was after a complete light cycle. The body roll was real apparent on turns especially the one into town center. You have to really take it easy. On exit the bus tipped like 30 degrees and it felt like it bottomed out on the wheel frames. The driver was going slow too. I can never get fascinated enough riding these. No wonder they want 25 more. Well here is some shots, even I caught the operator taking pictures!!

#701:

 

Ask Garmon to add these to the chicagobus.org site. They may still be at Kedzie but not on the 82. Last three days, everytime I checked, one or both has been on the #52. What's definiately true is I haven't seen either one on #7, #126 or #157 in some time.

[Busjack]

... I did hear a loud click in the rear at Devon and then a generator started, but that was after a complete light cycle. ...

 

It must have been something else, since by definition a battery bus doesn't have a generator (as opposed to a series hybrid which essentially does). Maybe it was whatever powers the HVAC, which still uses diesel.

On the suspension, it would be interesting if there were another Xcelsior to compare. This one obviously doesn't have the weight of the engine, and is probably lighter even though it has the weight of the batteries.

[garmon757]

Ask Garmon to add these to the chicagobus.org site. They may still be at Kedzie but not on the 82. Last three days, everytime I checked, one or both has been on the #52. What's definiately true is I haven't seen either one on #7, #126 or #157 in some time.

They're already published!

[Busjack]

Was the driver getting her own picture of the bus right there?

Became more obvious when clicking on the pictures. I bet there was also someone behind BusHunter taking pictures of the bus and those two, too.

[BusHunter]

Was the driver getting her own picture of the bus right there?

Yeah, i think she saw me taking pictures, so she took some. You would think this would be her regular run and she always drives it. Maybe she was off the extra board or someone doing some OT.

Wednesday is the day that the #82 goes up there with a #700. That was also the day I saw it before. I don't know if it goes up there other days.

[mel bernero]

701 was out on 82 this afternoon.

Mel

[BusHunter]

701 was out on 82 this afternoon.

Mel

I saw #700 this afternoon on the #82, it was actually in the same time slot (6:30PM around Belmont/Blue Nb,  7:00PM at town center.) They couldn't have both been out there could they? Call me crazy, but yesterday I swore it did two trips from the north end. It must only go to 31st/Lawndale one time, cause the 7:00 PM trip from town center goes to Cermak only. I added it up, the whole trip including to/from the garage is like 51 miles.

Edited August 14, 2015 by BusHunter

[geneking7320]

I haven't ridden these electric buses yet. I'd like to ask the posters on this thread if you have ridden a modern ETB how does the experience

compare with the 700s?

[Juniorz]

geneking7320 the experience is very different from the standard diesel bus. The engine is much quieter, other than the acceleration buzz, they accelerate like a normal bus. The Xcelsior is a very good bus, but it's biggest draw back is the model's height, which makes for awkward movements at times. This is really the CTA bus experience on a premium. The experiment should be over this Fall and by then we'll know whether the CTA will move forward with purchasing more or just keeping the vehicles, which are a permanent addition to the fleet.  

[sw4400]

geneking7320 the experience is very different from the standard diesel bus. The engine is much quieter, other than the acceleration buzz, they accelerate like a normal bus. The Xcelsior is a very good bus, but it's biggest draw back is the model's height, which makes for awkward movements at times. This is really the CTA bus experience on a premium. The experiment should be over this Fall and by then we'll know whether the CTA will move forward with purchasing more or just keeping the vehicles, which are a permanent addition to the fleet.  

I would sadly look for them to sit in 77th/Perry like 5900, 5901 and 5902 are one day. They were Hydrogen-powered test buses and were supposed to be sent back to Canada, but never made it and just became property of the scrapyards, picked clean to no doubt have parts for the 5800's at the time(and perhaps even the 1000's.... body styles are the same, and if parts are in good enough shape, I could see the CTA recycling a bit).

[Busjack]

I would sadly look for them to sit in 77th/Perry like 5900, 5901 and 5902 are one day. They were Hydrogen-powered test buses and were supposed to be sent back to Canada, but never made it and just became property of the scrapyards, picked clean to no doubt have parts for the 5800's at the time(and perhaps even the 1000's.... body styles are the same, and if parts are in good enough shape, I could see the CTA recycling a bit).

There is nothing to pick there. One can even see that the window frames are not the same.

That possibility exists (note the 900s and CMAP staff not passing on the request for 25 electric buses citing the fuel cell buses)but it doesn't look like that this test is that unsuccessful.

[sw4400]

There is nothing to pick there. One can even see that the window frames are not the same.

That possibility exists (note the 900s and CMAP staff not passing on the request for 25 electric buses citing the fuel cell buses)but it doesn't look like that this test is that unsuccessful.

I mean in the past, that's why they look so picked through. Parts taken off for the 5800's and 1000's(for example, the window frames on the 5800's and 1000's are similar to the 5900's, as all they are is a D40LF body modified for Hydrogen propulsion. The D40LF body hasn't changed much since it's introduction in the late '80's except for the later upgrades-D40LFR and now XD40). CTA has recycled parts for other buses.... I remember Frankenbus #6131. It had a yellow bar on a front door from a 6000-Series bus(probably the whole door) and a black bar on the other door from a 5300-Series bus(again, probably the whole door). I wish I took a photo of it.

When FG first got the 6000's, #6032 stood out to me as it had the metal rims that the 5300's used rather than the Alcoas. Another example of recycling no doubt.

 

[Busjack]

... The D40LF body hasn't changed much since it's introduction in the late '80's except for the later upgrades-D40LFR and now XD40). ..

An LFR is an LF with different end caps. An Xcelsior is not. Sort of similar to saying you can strip a Bentley to fix your VW Golf. Same manufacturer, but hopefully not interchangeable parts.

[jajuan]

I would sadly look for them to sit in 77th/Perry like 5900, 5901 and 5902 are one day. They were Hydrogen-powered test buses and were supposed to be sent back to Canada, but never made it and just became property of the scrapyards, picked clean to no doubt have parts for the 5800's at the time(and perhaps even the 1000's.... body styles are the same, and if parts are in good enough shape, I could see the CTA recycling a bit).

I think you're reading too much of what went on with the 5900s into this. The conditions of each case are demonstrably different. For one thing Belcaster was found to have had stock in Ballard at the time the 5900s were getting tested. So the implication there was that Belcaster put CTA into that particular contract to line his pockets with whatever money was thought could be made in promoting the fuel cell buses. The 700s are seeing a heck of lot more coverage of routes than the 5900s did with longer hours as I've never seen 5900s on the road in evening hours or any times after dark. And this time around CTA did say in press releases that these are permanent additions to the fleet and pretty much implied if not directly said that they'll continue to see service after the tests. So unless they're lying to the media and public, it's kind of doubtful that these buses are going to sit rotting in the South Shops boneyard. You made a similar premature leap about the 800s when the 900s dropped out of CTA service, and the 800s are still here months later with only one bus OOS and on long term hold.

Edited August 22, 2015 by jajuan
corrected spelling and word usage error