5000-series - Updates

[briman94]

Jamming on the brakes will do it.

Must have been at, like, every stop...it actually felt like there were multiple flat spots given the way it was riding even at low speeds. 

[Busjack]

Must have been at, like, every stop...it actually felt like there were multiple flat spots given the way it was riding even at low speeds. 

Have to call Kevin O'Connor to do another This Old House at the wheel lathe.

[BusHunter]

Must have been at, like, every stop...it actually felt like there were multiple flat spots given the way it was riding even at low speeds. 

Being on the red line it gets alot of use. These will be the #5000's that wear out first. They'll likely be looking to trade these off in a few years. Poor Blue line.

[chicagopcclcar]

Tuesday's delivery to SKOKIE-SOUTH was #5689, shown passing beneath the Green line Englewood/Ashland branch on S. State St.

 

Tuesday's delivery waits for the main gate to open on E. 63rd St. at CTA lower yard.  Inside the yard is getting a little crowded.

[BusHunter]

I went up to Skokie Shops I believe on Saturday and they still had that #5692 - #5687 set against the Oakton fence, so there was no change since last time I was up there. Should be looking different now. I'm surprised no #3200's have come back to 63rd yet. Maybe they are waiting to do all #5700's first.

[chicagopcclcar]

I went up to Skokie Shops I believe on Saturday and they still had that #5692 - #5687 set against the Oakton fence, so there was no change since last time I was up there. Should be looking different now. I'm surprised no #3200's have come back to 63rd yet. Maybe they are waiting to do all #5700's first.

Saturday report is "old news." #5687 delivered to 63rd Mon. Aug. 10. #5688 delivered to 63rd Tues. Aug. 11. #5689 delivered to 63rd Wed. Aug. 12.

[chicagopcclcar]

Why can't they run under their own power? They have electricity. They were thoroughly tested in ny. Skokie released them, they should be all right.  Does a line manager have to officially sign them into the red line? Cars can be damaged in tow just as fast as in service. You never know CTA might surprise you.

I never noticed this before......the transferred 5000s can not run under their own power.......THEY ARE MARKED WITH STICKERS!!!!  Look closely at the pictures.

And 63rd lower yard is NOT A REVENUE CAR SHOP!

 

[garmon757]

Hey guys, can we keep it down a notch about the 5000s deliveries. Kevin already talked about this recently. I cannot stress this enough. We don't want members and guests to be discouraged (that wouldn't be a good sign). Right now, our primary focus is the rest of them being delivered and assigned not jumping at each other throats about it. Any information and updates with appropriate verification is considered. It's a fair warning to everybody. Please, let's not take matters into our own hands that leads to disaster. Thanks.

[chicagopcclcar]

I reported on the interesting maneuver transporting the "L" cars where the tractor-trailer combo cross the expressway at Pershing and then head south only to exit again and recross the expressway. A third intersection turn now has the combo going in the right direction, northbound as it reenters the expressway. I have learned a similar maneuver happens where the combo reaches  I-94 (Edens Expressway) "cloverleaf" interchange at Touhy Ave. First exiting the expressway going west, the driver gets right back onto I-94, heading south, and immediately exits going east. Three curved exits. Southbound the tractor-trailer combo drives naturally exiting at Pershing and entering at Touhy.

[BusHunter]

Something wrong with the right turn at Cicero/Touhy? They could have just went straight to Oakton, it has a cutout right turn lane. So they go by town center with the cars?

[chicagopcclcar]

We're in the NINETIES!  Thursday, Aug. 13, delivered #5690, the mate for #5689.  This also marks the 16th unit transferred south from Skokie. Twenty-four cars to go if my math is on target, LOL. 

[garmon757]

Something wrong with the right turn at Cicero/Touhy? They could have just went straight to Oakton, it has a cutout right turn lane. So they go by town center with the cars?

Those kind of trucks cannot make those sharp right turns because the trailers are way too long. Hell, my mother's house can possibly fit on one of them! 

[BusHunter]

Those kind of trucks cannot make those sharp right turns because the trailers are way too long. Hell, my mother's house can possibly fit on one of them! 

It's not that sharp of a turn.

[chicagopcclcar]

#5690 strikes a pose in front of the main gate at CTA's E. 63rd St. lower yard.

[garmon757]

#5690 strikes a pose in front of the main gate at CTA's E. 63rd St. lower yard.

Can I get its autograph! 

[andrethebusman]

5252 just went by at Belmont and shook the ground so hard I'm convinced it has square wheels! It's pretty sad how fast some of the 5000s' wheels have gone flat.

Flat wheels are the combination of two things - CTA's preference that operators slam on the brakes at the last moment when coming into a station, and the fact that the newer cars (2000's and up) are capable of braking force that is greater than the wheel to rail adhesion. With a 6000, it was almost impossible to slide them unless you threw them fully into emergency, but with any of the newer cars, a full P4 application under less than ideal rail conditions can result in a slide. Now the cure is very simple. Back off on the brake, Come in on P3 until you are almost stopped, then P4 to make the final stop. But that makes it appear "slow", and instruction dept wants "fast". Not that it really matters with all the slow zones any more, but it is what it is.

[briman94]

Flat wheels are the combination of two things - CTA's preference that operators slam on the brakes at the last moment when coming into a station, and the fact that the newer cars (2000's and up) are capable of braking force that is greater than the wheel to rail adhesion. With a 6000, it was almost impossible to slide them unless you threw them fully into emergency, but with any of the newer cars, a full P4 application under less than ideal rail conditions can result in a slide. Now the cure is very simple. Back off on the brake, Come in on P3 until you are almost stopped, then P4 to make the final stop. But that makes it appear "slow", and instruction dept wants "fast". Not that it really matters with all the slow zones any more, but it is what it is.

I thought the 5000s were supposed to prevent slide automatically with their fancy computers and everything. Not to mention the fact that if the operators knew what they were doing, they could use the fact that the 5000s have infinite degrees of braking to their advantage, but most of them like to go between coast and full brake rapidly instead.

I know that in my simulation of ATO/CBTC on the 5000s in Train Simulator, they end up using 80% brake until the end and there's no noticeable difference in stopping time...I think it's just a matter of drivers being too lazy to focus on efficiency.

[artthouwill]

Right now an 8 car set which includes 5685 and 5686 just pulled into Roosevelt elevated.   5610 was the lead and 5372 was the trailer.   There was an operator in 5372 that immediately took the train back south.  I assume she was taking it to Midway yard.   It happened too fast to get pics.

[BusHunter]

Right now an 8 car set which includes 5685 and 5686 just pulled into Roosevelt elevated.   5610 was the lead and 5372 was the trailer.   There was an operator in 5372 that immediately took the train back south.  I assume she was taking it to Midway yard.   It happened too fast to get pics.

98th yard. Hopefully our roving reporter of the south has some pictures. They could probably do two moves cause they have 8 cars. #5691 should be on the menu today for a trip to the south..

[Busjack]

Right now an 8 car set which includes 5685 and 5686 just pulled into Roosevelt elevated.   5610 was the lead and 5372 was the trailer.   There was an operator in 5372 that immediately took the train back south.  I assume she was taking it to Midway yard.   It happened too fast to get pics.

98th yard. Hopefully our roving reporter of the south has some pictures. They could probably do two moves cause they have 8 cars. #5691 should be on the menu today for a trip to the south..

On reading art's, I figured that one couldn't tell unless they were standing at the jct of the Dan Ryan rapid transit ramp up to 18th Street.

[rl12383]

98th yard. Hopefully our roving reporter of the south has some pictures. They could probably do two moves cause they have 8 cars. #5691 should be on the menu today for a trip to the south..

just saw the set head south towards midway a few minutes ago.... And now it's headed back towards Roosevelt 

[chicagopcclcar]

 

just saw the set head south towards midway a few minutes ago.... And now it's headed back towards Roosevelt 

rl12383....."headed back...."

Roosevelt elevated or Roosevelt subway?  Good find!

artthouwill......"Right now an 8 car set which includes 5685 and 5686 just pulled into Roosevelt elevated.   5610 was the lead and 5372 was the trailer.   There was an operator in 5372 that immediately took the train back south.  I assume she was taking it to Midway yard.   It happened too fast to get pics."

If you could be more exact please.....I'm trying to find what occurred.  I know where the four cars ended up at.

DH

Edited August 16, 2015 by chicagopcclcar

[chicagopcclcar]

 I have learned a similar maneuver happens where the combo reaches  I-94 (Edens Expressway) "cloverleaf" interchange at Touhy Ave. 

Last Thursday I told everyone that I learned that another triple exit/entrance maneuver occurred up north with our "L" car transfers.  Actually, I never went to the I-94 Touhy interchange.  A friend, who is well respected among transit followers, Eric Bronsky,  had sent an e-mail describing what he thought was a most unusual event.  He even made up a name...."The Lost L Car" and I think most here will enjoy his complete story.

The abrupt shutdown of the CTA Yellow Line (Skokie Swift) this past May due to the collapse of the embankment immediately west of McCormick Blvd severed the rail link between the CTA Skokie Shops and the remainder of the system.  This has led to cars routinely being trucked in and out of the Shops via flatbed trailer - old cars for maintenance & repair, and new 5000-series cars for testing. 

 

Well ... early in the morning last Thursday (Aug. 6), I spotted a CTA 3200-series (?) car on a flatbed trailer navigating the I-94 (Edens Expressway) "cloverleaf" interchange at Touhy Ave.  Michele and I were heading west on Touhy, changing lanes to enter southbound I-94, when I spotted this car exiting the expressway (red circle on aerial view below).  But rather than continue west on Touhy, the driver got right back onto I-94, heading south (dotted line):

 

Huh?  I quickly grabbed my camera and managed to take this photo as the car approached the underpass:

 

But then, believe it or not, the driver exited SB I-94 on the Touhy East ramp!  Location of the photo below is the blue circle on the aerial view.

 

In the end, this 'L' car actually circumnavigated 3 of the 4 loops of the Touhy  interchange!  My guess is that the driver, supposedly en route to Skokie Shops, was heading north on I-94 but missed the Touhy East exit.

 

A single 'L' car traversing a cloverleaf expressway interchange in this manner is something you just don't see every day.

 

-- Eric

Of course I knew what has happening.  The e-mailed a response....

 

I have reported the new CTA intermodal transfers between Skokie and "SKOKIE-SOUTH" at 63rd lower yard since July 22.  What you describe is a usual maneuver.  The same driver has been used since the project began so the driver was not "lost" or missed his turn.

 

The maneuver results from the trailer needing room to make turns at intersections.  Out south a similar situation exists.....after going NB on S. State St. in the city, they turn west on Pershing, go across Dan Ryan and turn south, exit the next exit, recross the expressway, now going north re-enter and continue north.

 

David Harrison    

 Hi David,

Thank you!  I didn't see your report, and never having driven a truck or bus, this wouldn't have occurred to me.  The maneuver does appear whimsical if not odd to the casual observer.  But in examining the aerial photo, it's obvious that the turn from the exit ramp to NB Cicero is much sharper.   Merging a long vehicle into heavy traffic, though, remains a challenge.

 

-- Eric

Here are Eric's photos and the map of the interchange.

I know garmon757 has mentioned that the "L" transfers can't use the traditional streets and intersections. The transfers to Skokie and 63rd use prescribed routes.  I've undertaken a project to photograph the serious driving maneuvers that it takes to transfer the "L" cars over our streets and interstates.  Look for it soon. 

[chicagopcclcar]

Wednesday, Aug. 20, the latest delivery is #5696 seen here on E. 63rd St. 

[Pink Jazz]

With the last few 5000-series deliveries likely to be placed on the Red Line, if the Orange Line does get 5000s as CTA has promised, I have a feeling that the Orange Line will probably get about 100 or so of the lower numbered cars from the Red Line.

Now, another question is: if the Orange Line gets 5000s, will they be used on Brownages?  My guess that Brownages will continue to use 3200s, since if a Brownage train needs to be sent to Kimball Yard in an emergency, the yard already has experience with the 3200-series cars and would keep maintenance costs down.