7000-series - Delivery & Updates

[Tcmetro]

IDOT is doing some additional studies on the 290 reconstruction. Mostly because the construction costs were estimated at $3.2 billion for the Mannheim to Cicero segment. 

I could see these additional studies adding a couple years, then engineering, then finally construction. IDOT estimated the construction at 8 years, so this is a project that realistically will be completed in the 2030s. 

Hopefully the new studies better determine the relationship of the expressway project and the Blue Line. That could help make it easier for CTA to pursue improvements before IDOT does their work. 

For what it's worth, the Congress Blue Line is also included in the Fast Tracks program, so perhaps something is in the works already, at least for track improvements.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

IDOT is doing some additional studies on the 290 reconstruction. Mostly because the construction costs were estimated at $3.2 billion for the Mannheim to Cicero segment. 

I could see these additional studies adding a couple years, then engineering, then finally construction. IDOT estimated the construction at 8 years, so this is a project that realistically will be completed in the 2030s. 

Hopefully the new studies better determine the relationship of the expressway project and the Blue Line. That could help make it easier for CTA to pursue improvements before IDOT does their work. 

For what it's worth, the Congress Blue Line is also included in the Fast Tracks program, so perhaps something is in the works already, at least for track improvements.

Do you have any ideas as to what IDOT is planning?  Like I said before,  redoing the Austin and Harlem ramps is probably part of that.  Will it include annexing the adjacent EJE tracks?  Will the overpasses at Austin,  Lombard, Ridgeland  East Ave, Oak Park Ave, Harlem,  and Circle Blvd all have to be rebuilt? Is CTA planning to move the Forest Park Terminal station to where the EJE tracks are (currently north of the current station)?  Is this part of a plan to extend the Blue Line to Manheim?

[Tcmetro]

The IDOT plan is for a total reconstruction from Mannheim to Cicero, which would involve replacing all bridges. The left side exits will move to the right, but the ramps will fly over the expressway for the intersections to still be in the middle. The plan won't take any of the freight ROW, but might involve some takings of CTA ROW. The plan only includes space for a Blue Line extension to Mannheim. The plan doesn't assume any changes for the Blue Line, but I believe that the plans that showed the extension had the Forest Park terminal in the same place. 

 

There's a ton of documents on the Eisenhower reconstruction plan at eisenhowerexpressway.com

[BusHunter]

Hmm.... I heard any rail extension was dead to Mannheim and they wanted to do express buses on a special lane. If they were smart they would make intermodel stations like on the NW tollway express bus corridor. They could act as train stations but be using express bus service. The concept seems smart. Pace is exploring an expressway network right now and it's Pulse service is on the fast track. They are having hearings for the south Halsted corridor. Interesting to see how that will work alongside cta service they have yet to open a Pulse line with this feature although they wouldnt really have many problems if there were a red line extension because most service would go to it and not use halsted which is a big red line south bus corridor now.

[artthouwill]

45 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Hmm.... I heard any rail extension was dead to Mannheim and they wanted to do express buses on a special lane. If they were smart they would make intermodel stations like on the NW tollway express bus corridor. They could act as train stations but be using express bus service. The concept seems smart. Pace is exploring an expressway network right now and it's Pulse service is on the fast track. They are having hearings for the south Halsted corridor. Interesting to see how that will work alongside cta service they have yet to open a Pulse line with this feature although they wouldnt really have many problems if there were a red line extension because most service would go to it and not use halsted which is a big red line south bus corridor now.

Based on the article,  IDOT us leaving enough room for a rail extension to Manheim. but initially that  space would be used as a bus lane.  CTA doesn't seem to think a Manheim extension is a good idea,  but who knows what the future holds?  At least this way, if things change,  it can still be accomplished. 

As for Halsted and the Red Line extension,  you brought up a great point.  There's no need to build Pulse Stations if the service is only going to exist for a few years.  The year 2026 was the target for the opening of the Red Line extension. which means Pulse service would last 5 years (longer if CTA can't get funding),

[Sam92]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Based on the article,  IDOT us leaving enough room for a rail extension to Manheim. but initially that  space would be used as a bus lane.  CTA doesn't seem to think a Manheim extension is a good idea,  but who knows what the future holds?  At least this way, if things change,  it can still be accomplished. 

As for Halsted and the Red Line extension,  you brought up a great point.  There's no need to build Pulse Stations if the service is only going to exist for a few years.  The year 2026 was the target for the opening of the Red Line extension. which means Pulse service would last 5 years (longer if CTA can't get funding),

Idk depending on how big 352 grows it could end up as another 34 which is still expected to continue as a route after the extension

[artthouwill]

12 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Idk depending on how big 352 grows it could end up as another 34 which is still expected to continue as a route after the extension

But the 34 and 119 run on Michigan,  which is a high Corridor.   Once the extension opens,  the 119 would go away north of 115th, though the 34 would continue, it would not be as frequent. 

On Halsted,  the 8A would provide local Halsted service while the 352 would be truncated to 130th.  East-west service to the Red Line would be provided on 119th, 115th, 111th, and 103rd.  The 8A could even be extended to 130th vis 127th, Indiana,  and 130th (as the current Carver High school trippers do now).  If Pace makes 352 a Pulse service,  it won't last but a few years unless the Red Line extension is axed. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

But the 34 and 119 run on Michigan,  which is a high Corridor.   Once the extension opens,  the 119 would go away north of 115th, though the 34 would continue, it would not be as frequent. 

On Halsted,  the 8A would provide local Halsted service while the 352 would be truncated to 130th.  East-west service to the Red Line would be provided on 119th, 115th, 111th, and 103rd.  The 8A could even be extended to 130th vis 127th, Indiana,  and 130th (as the current Carver High school trippers do now).  If Pace makes 352 a Pulse service,  it won't last but a few years unless the Red Line extension is axed. 

352 isn't getting truncated (at least not trips from Harvey, I could see this with trips from Chicago Heights). Too many people ride the 352 over the 8A since the 352 not only gets to the red line first, it goes directly to the station, unlike the 8A. If they truncated the 352 even if the red line got to 130th, a lot of people would be very upset.

[artthouwill]

56 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

352 isn't getting truncated (at least not trips from Harvey, I could see this with trips from Chicago Heights). Too many people ride the 352 over the 8A since the 352 not only gets to the red line first, it goes directly to the station, unlike the 8A. If they truncated the 352 even if the red line got to 130th, a lot of people would be very upset.

We weren't talking about now, but if/when the actual Red Line extension to 130th really happens.  Why would Pace continue to run a bus through the city to 95th when 130th would be much closer?  Those not transferring to the Red Line can transfer at 127th to CTA 8A S. Halsted .  The 108 would be eliminated since, as I noted earlier,  east west routes on 119th, 115th, 111th, and 103rd would serve the Red Line extension stations.   Also,  111th and 103rd stations would only be 1/2 mile east of Halsted.  Remember, Pace is a suburban bus agency.   Is it possible for Pace to add another route to run from Harvey north of 127th on Halsted?  If the demand is there,  possibly, but I doubt it.

To get back on topic,  I believe the Blue Line getting 7000s will be tied to the Forest Park branch getting rehabbed,  just like the Red Line getting the 5000s based on the Dan Ryan branch getting rehabbed.  But I still think the Brown Line gets the 7000s first, with Brown Line 3200s going to Blue.  I could even see Brown swapping more 3209s now for Blue Line 2609s, so when the 7000s come, they can start to retire 2600s from the Brown Line.   Like I also said, I think Orange Line gets the 7000s second to retire more 2600s and maintain compatibility with the Brown Line.  Though I suppose anything is possible,  I don't see 7000s being assigned to any other line and I don't see 5000s going to the Blue Line. 

[BusHunter]

If the 7000s have a different leveling design that can take some bouncing then that solves the forest pk problem and blue will get the 7000s. If it has the same problem then cta has an issue that needs addressing because 240 something 3200s will not equip the blue. The good news is that they can wait until the last minute to fix that issue if the last cars to replace 2600s did go to blue cause blue will probably still have 100 2600s even if it has 240 3200s. I'm surprised they just dont put out a contract to remove the roof boards on the 3440s and 50s. So that issue will come to the forefront in what 4 years. 2026? Or 2025? Depending on the first production 7000s happen which is 2021 at least or 2022. 2020 is the prototype testing year. 

I still say testing in service on the production cars will start on the pink. They are going to want to check the issues that got bombardier into hot water. No one knows what the long term effects of the cars will be. 

[Shannon CVPI]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

If the 7000s have a different leveling design that can take some bouncing then that solves the forest pk problem and blue will get the 7000s. If it has the same problem then cta has an issue that needs addressing because 240 something 3200s will not equip the blue. The good news is that they can wait until the last minute to fix that issue if the last cars to replace 2600s did go to blue cause blue will probably still have 100 2600s even if it has 240 3200s. I'm surprised they just dont put out a contract to remove the roof boards on the 3440s and 50s. So that issue will come to the forefront in what 4 years. 2026? Or 2025? Depending on the first production 7000s happen which is 2021 at least or 2022. 2020 is the prototype testing year. 

I still say testing in service on the production cars will start on the pink. They are going to want to check the issues that got bombardier into hot water. No one knows what the long term effects of the cars will be. 

I agree it's gone be a while before they do come into play but they don't wanna take the roof boards off the 34's because that's spending money you know all of these companies don't wanna spend that cash 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

If the 7000s have a different leveling design that can take some bouncing then that solves the forest pk problem and blue will get the 7000s. If it has the same problem then cta has an issue that needs addressing because 240 something 3200s will not equip the blue. The good news is that they can wait until the last minute to fix that issue if the last cars to replace 2600s did go to blue cause blue will probably still have 100 2600s even if it has 240 3200s. I'm surprised they just dont put out a contract to remove the roof boards on the 3440s and 50s. So that issue will come to the forefront in what 4 years. 2026? Or 2025? Depending on the first production 7000s happen which is 2021 at least or 2022. 2020 is the prototype testing year. 

I still say testing in service on the production cars will start on the pink. They are going to want to check the issues that got bombardier into hot water. No one knows what the long term effects of the cars will be. 

I'm going to say the Red Line gets the testing for the 7000s first, just like the 5000s did.  I would pick the Yellow Line over the Pink Line  because of  Yellow 's (and Red's) proximity to Skokie Shops if any issues do arise.

We know the 5000s aren't suitable for the Blue Line nor the Orange Line.   The seating isn't conducive to passengers traveling with luggage.   The 2600s aren't much better,  but before their rehabs,  some of the higher numbered cars had luggage racks.  The 3200s currently are the most conducive for passengers with luggage. 

[BusHunter]

The red does have alot going on. RPM is about to go into full gear and they have the belmont flyover happening too which is going to bring all new structure from belmont to almost addison. I should say between roscoe and cornelia. But the blue line is getting some rehabbing of it's own. The milwaukee subway stations are all getting a major facelift that they have needed for quite some time and the state of the art belmont bus station is coming to Logan square blue line so finally blue line on the north side is looking better and getting newer. There would be a case for blue getting new 7000s but the nw  side never gets new stuff and if they do they dont keep it. Its cta tradition lol!! I see the forest pk blue line getting fixed and it's a coin toss on the 7000s going there. Let's just say the blue line gets ac cars which ones I dont know. 

On the 3200s roof boards they couldnt cut those off and leave a little nipple on them. Those cars will be useless on any subway lines. Theyll never be a santa express or a work train. It probably will end up 3200s will be the work trains in the ac era. 

[chicagocubs6323]

55 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

 

On the 3200s roof boards they couldnt cut those off and leave a little nipple on them. Those cars will be useless on any subway lines. 

I would assign those roof board 3200s to the Yellow and Purple Lines and just call it a day.  Howard right now is worried about losing 5000 series cars off the Red or Purple Lines because the Yellow Line needs a back up train.  Historically, the Yellow Line has had trains, like the original 5000s, which were built exclusively for that line and nothing else.  

If roof board 3200s are exclusively on the Yellow Line, like their original purpose was, Howard doesn't need to worry about losing Red or Purple Line trains anymore.  Plus, unused 3200s can run out of Howard as an extra Purple Line Express train!  That will help the crowds in the Loop!  I did the math.  This can work because the CTA has 16 roof board 3200s.  Cars 3441-3456.  Divide 16 by two and you have two 8 car trains.  

Now... currently the Yellow Line runs only two trains on the line running every 15 minutes.  Yellow Line will need 4 cars to run service.  16 minus 4 is 12.  The 12 cars left can run during rush hour on the Purple Line Express.  Two 6 car trains.   This will be very useful especially for the people packed like sardines on every Purple Line train leaving people having ti wait for the next one behind during the PM rush.

[chicagocubs6323]

If CTA wants to, 3457-58 can be assigned to Yellow when the line runs 3 trains at a time during the summer and its special events.  This would also be just in case one pair of 3200s break down resulting in losing an extra Purple Line train for both occasions.   The total now would be 18 cars.

Last time I checked, the Blue Line supervisors does not want 3457-58 or mix 2600s and 3200s together in an consist.

[artthouwill]

46 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The red does have alot going on. RPM is about to go into full gear and they have the belmont flyover happening too which is going to bring all new structure from belmont to almost addison. I should say between roscoe and cornelia. But the blue line is getting some rehabbing of it's own. The milwaukee subway stations are all getting a major facelift that they have needed for quite some time and the state of the art belmont bus station is coming to Logan square blue line so finally blue line on the north side is looking better and getting newer. There would be a case for blue getting new 7000s but the nw  side never gets new stuff and if they do they dont keep it. Its cta tradition lol!! I see the forest pk blue line getting fixed and it's a coin toss on the 7000s going there. Let's just say the blue line gets ac cars which ones I dont know. 

On the 3200s roof boards they couldnt cut those off and leave a little nipple on them. Those cars will be useless on any subway lines. Theyll never be a santa express or a work train. It probably will end up 3200s will be the work trains in the ac era. 

I know the roof board 3200s can't run the Blue Line because of the Kimball subway, but my understanding is that they could fit in the downtown subways.  But I don't see them being on the Red Line. 

To me, the only way the 7000s go to the Blue Line first  is that the power upgrades are completed AND the Forest Park branch undergoes some track renewal.   It truly needs to be rebuilt, but maybe a temporary fix will help until a rebuild is possible.   If the 5000s were deemed too heavy for the Forest Park branch,  you know the 7000s don't stand a chance as is right now.

[chicagocubs6323]

2 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

.  But I don't see them being on the Red Line. 

 

 

See my above response (we posted at the same time, wanted to make sure you saw it)

[artthouwill]

Just now, chicagocubs6323 said:

See my above response 

I saw your response.   Until the 5000s, you are correct in that the Yellow Line had its own equipment.   This was primarily due to the overhead pantographs the line required.  This includes the 3209s, thus the roof boards.  CTA converted the Line to third rail to match the rest of the system.   The idea was to operationally use any set of Howard yard cars on any Red, Purple,  or Yellow Line service.   This creates less work for Yard people to store and get special cars in place for one Line.  CTA doesn't want to go back to that.  The most logical place for the footboard cars are the Brown and/or Orange Lines. 

[chicagocubs6323]

16 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

.   The idea was to operationally use any set of Howard yard cars on any Red, Purple,  or Yellow Line service.   This creates less work for Yard people to store and get special cars in place for one Line.  CTA doesn't want to go back to that.  The most logical place for the footboard cars are the Brown and/or Orange Lines. 

I could understand that.  However, this is a suggestion for ONLY the occasion the 7000s are assigned FIRST to the Brown and Orange Lines.  The rest of the 3200s would be assigned to Blue and cars with roof boards and 3457-58 (in total 18 cars) can go to Howard for Yellow and Purple.   2600s on Orange are replaced.

As far as Howard Yard maintaining these cars, Howard still services DC equipment.  They service the work cars and the 2400s from the Heritage Fleet.  This wouldn't be a problem at all with the yards having to worry about servicing only one car class if they already are trained for different types of equipment.  

The idea is to improve service and prevent losing 5000s because the smaller Yellow line needs 2 cars from an 8 car consist off the Red Line.  Red Line loses a whole train.

 

[artthouwill]

2 minutes ago, chicagocubs6323 said:

I could understand that.  However, this is a suggestion for ONLY the occasion the 7000s are assigned FIRST to the Brown and Orange Lines.  The rest of the 3200s would be assigned to Blue and cars with roof boards and 3457-58 (in total 18 cars) can go to Howard for Yellow and Purple.   2600s on Orange are replaced.

As far as Howard Yard maintaining these cars, Howard still services DC equipment.  They service the work cars and the 2400s from the Heritage Fleet.  This wouldn't be a problem at all with the yards having to worry about servicing only one car class if they already are trained for different types of equipment.  

 

I thought Skokie Shops serviced those cars.  Even so, the 2400s don't have to move at all and the work cars occasionally.   It takes maneuvering to get the two trains in place for Skokie Swift service every day.  Now imagine if one or both Yellow Line consists needed to be swapped out midday.  The way it works now is to get the next available set of cars.  If it is a  six or eight car consist, just separate the first two cars.  If roofbiards on the Yellow Line were such a great idea, they would still be there. 

[chicagocubs6323]

Trust me, those 2400 Heritage Cars are constantly being moved between Howard and Skokie Yards.  Obviously those 2400s have some work done at Howard if that's why they're there.  And currently, the same 6 cars of 5000s are used on the Yellow Line.  Those same cars be running back and forth pretty much all day.  The cars are Yellow Line runs 2 or 3 trains but lately just only two at a time.

To be exact, the cars used currently for Yellow Line service are 5519-5520, 5523-24, 5525-5526.

[WCR]

This new photo of the 7000s has surfaced (via Railway Gazette). More details are visible, such as the side panels having 10 ribs (as opposed to 13 thinner ones on 5000s). Run number display box is on the left side like on the 3200s and 5000s. Expect these testing on CTA rails real soon!

[chicagocubs6323]

1 hour ago, WCR said:

This new photo of the 7000s has surfaced (via Railway Gazette). More details are visible, such as the side panels having 10 ribs (as opposed to 13 thinner ones on 5000s). Run number display box is on the left side like on the 3200s and 5000s. Expect these testing on CTA rails real soon!

And this was taken at the CRRC plant in China.  This came out months ago

[Guest]

On 1/4/2020 at 5:46 PM, chicagocubs6323 said:

I could understand that.  However, this is a suggestion for ONLY the occasion the 7000s are assigned FIRST to the Brown and Orange Lines.  The rest of the 3200s would be assigned to Blue and cars with roof boards and 3457-58 (in total 18 cars) can go to Howard for Yellow and Purple.   2600s on Orange are replaced.

As far as Howard Yard maintaining these cars, Howard still services DC equipment.  They service the work cars and the 2400s from the Heritage Fleet.  This wouldn't be a problem at all with the yards having to worry about servicing only one car class if they already are trained for different types of equipment.  

The idea is to improve service and prevent losing 5000s because the smaller Yellow line needs 2 cars from an 8 car consist off the Red Line.  Red Line loses a whole train.

 

The 3200s are great! The open car space, single seating and no seating like the 5000s. With the 7000s coming, I hope most 3200s will eventually go to the Blue. The space in those cars works well especially on packed rush hour trains  A lot more standing room. Great seating layout! Overall I think it was a great move on CTA to bring those cars over. With their recent rehabs, theyre basically the 5000s without the seating arrangement. Since Ive had more opportunities to ride the 5000s recently Ive changed my thinking on them especially with the cloth seats inserts, No Thanks!  They can stay wherever they are. I dont care for them anymore!  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WCR said:

This new photo of the 7000s has surfaced (via Railway Gazette). More details are visible, such as the side panels having 10 ribs (as opposed to 13 thinner ones on 5000s). Run number display box is on the left side like on the 3200s and 5000s. Expect these testing on CTA rails real soon!

Those headlights, they kind of remind me of the 2000 series!