8350-series Nova LFS - Updates

[Mr.NewFlyer1279]

33 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

My point is that the West side garages  are the only garages that fit that description.   K has the 12, 7, 124, and 126.  Maybe the 60 should be included  

C has the 157, 124, 20, 65, 66, and maybe the 70 and 72.  

F has the 56

103rd has the 28 and 7 has the 1, but those are primarily north south routes  that run East West  in downtown.  The south side garages generally run north south downtown, so while that plan works perfectly for the West side garages and the 56 ( F's only downtown route), it doesn't make sense overall.   But there's still another 300 to be delivered and all of them can't go to K and C.  And they all can't go downtown. 

103rd: 6, J14, 26, 28

77th: 1, 2, 3, 4, X4, 8

[Sam92]

16 hours ago, Run312 said:

Cta management wants the new nova’s on east and west routes that run into downtown. The flyers are always relegated to feeder routes or small trips. I’m surprised Chicago isn’t all nova yet 

 

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

My point is that the West side garages  are the only garages that fit that description.   K has the 12, 7, 124, and 126.  Maybe the 60 should be included  

C has the 157, 124, 20, 65, 66, and maybe the 70 and 72.  

F has the 56

103rd has the 28 and 7 has the 1, but those are primarily north south routes  that run East West  in downtown.  The south side garages generally run north south downtown, so while that plan works perfectly for the West side garages and the 56 ( F's only downtown route), it doesn't make sense overall.   But there's still another 300 to be delivered and all of them can't go to K and C.  And they all can't go downtown. 

Maybe CTA would eventually have all garages do the same for the downtown routes so 103rd would run them mainly on 28, 29 (they don't have much downtown 40ft work so maybe 34, 119 and 71), 77th runs them on 1,2, 3,4, 120 and 121, and 74th would cover 62 (they're in the same boat as 103rd and would probably run the rest on 55, 63, 9 and 49)

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

11, rush hour 49,  50, 96, 97, 155 and 201 so we're talking majority trippers and short routes on that note.

155 may be short, but the Oct. 2023 Ridership Report has average weekday ridership of 5200, Sat. of 4100, and Sun of 3200. Comparable to 56 and 78.

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The south side garages generally run north south downtown, so while that plan works perfectly for the West side garages

Apparently not featured in this topic, but 77th got maybe 50 in the 8500s, including on 3 and 4. 3 currently has 8420, 8456, 4 has 8544,  8550, 8558, 8560. And, of course, 29 is out of 103rd, which has some. So, I don't think this theory means much.

 

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Let's not leave out the J14 out of 103rd operating WB on Madison and EB on Washington in the Loop.

I left it out only because the J14 runs primarily artics. 

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

155 may be short, but the Oct. 2023 Ridership Report has average weekday ridership of 5200, Sat. of 4100, and Sun of 3200. Comparable to 56 and 78.

Apparently not featured in this topic, but 77th got maybe 50 in the 8500s, including on 3 and 4. 3 currently has 8420, 8456, 4 has 8544,  8550, 8558, 8560. And, of course, 29 is out of 103rd, which has some. So, I don't think this theory means much.

 

Yeah 155 gets a decent amount of riders from what I've heard but I interpreted small trips as the length. Of course when you're talking Chicago Garage theres not many routes and runs if any that qualify as "feeder or small trips" outside of it's AM share of the metra shuttles or MAYBE 37. Same with 77th which only has 31st, 43rd, and 51st. A few posts up I pretty much presumed that @Run312means that all garages are at some point will use primarily Novas on their routes that go into downtown based of maths22 earlier showing 20 and 66 for Chicago being mainly Novas while say 72, 74 and the others further out getting more flyers. Of course with 103rd's downtown work outside of 28 and 29 being primarily artic and 74th only having one downtown route those 2 garages would maybe focus their Novas on their heavier routes like 34, 119, 71, 55, 63, 49 and 9

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, Sam92 said:

A few posts up I pretty much presumed that @Run312means that all garages are at some point will use primarily Novas on their routes that go into downtown

I only assume that all garages will be primarily Novas period. I don't think CTA thinks in terms of downtown, but what garages can handle what. Some of the BEB plans rely on "equity,"  translated as 66-Chicago and 103rd Garage. But the only explanation I've seen that makes sense is that the drivers need training on the collision avoidance system. NP reportedly is just starting to get it.

Given that C now has buses in the 8100s (about 85) and reportedly about 80 8350s, that's too much. @maths22's indicates that 8185 to 8201 went to 74th and 8202-8211 to FG, so C has already lost some buses. If the deliveries of 8600s continue to C, I predict what happened at FG will eventually happen at C--a mass disgorgement to NP. And if FG can run 8350s on 206, NP can run them on 201.

After all NP got this 8715 [from IRM]:

Edited April 5 by Busjack
fixed a couple of numbers

[Sam92]

2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I only assume that all garages will be primarily Novas period. I don't think CTA thinks in terms of downtown, but what garages can handle what. Some of the BEB plans rely on "equity,"  translated as 66-Chicago and 103rd Garage. But the only explanation I've seen that makes sense is that the drivers need training on the collision avoidance system. NP reportedly is just starting to get it.

Given that C now has buses in the 8100s (about 85) and reportedly about 80 8300s, that's too much. @maths22's indicates that 8185to 8201 went to 74th and 8202-8211 to FG, so C has already lost some buses. If the deliveries of 8600s continue to C, I predict what happened at FG will eventually happen at C--a mass disgorgement to NP. And if FG can run 8150s on 206, NP can run them on 201.

After all NP got this 8715 (from IRM😞

Yeah with only 400 flyers expected to be left then yeah all garages will be primarily Novas like you said barring artics and electric buses. I was going off Run312's claims of management mandating that fg keeps only novas 56 and Chicago prioritizes novas on east west routes into downtown (20, 66 and I'm assuming 157 when the numbers get up there) that CTA may POSSIBLY lean towards that for all garages for whatever reasons when the dust settles. 77th doesn't look to be subjected to such mandates yet as 3 and 4 were half and half but could also change. I didn't really check much of kedzie but also as you mentioned drivers have to be trained on the new systems so that maybe be why other garages having been told to put novas on downtown service. 65 flyers as you're predicting is enough to cover all the shorter/feeder routes which dont require many buses so maybe the idea is to let the flyers rest since all of the downtown routes are pretty heavy and also require deadheading up and down the highways for peak direction trips. 

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, Sam92 said:

65 flyers as you're predicting is enough to cover all the shorter/feeder routes which dont require many buses so maybe the idea is to let the flyers rest since all of the downtown routes are pretty heavy and also require deadheading up and down the highways for peak direction trips. 

@maths22's tracker indicates that's not the case at FG. Looking at the current 1000 series and filtering for Forest Glen indicates that the  1000s are primarily on heavy routes (see Screenshot #1-#3). The feeders are mostly 8200s (see Screenshot #4) . Only thing that supports the theory is that most of the 8350s are on 56, but there are also some on N. Central, NW Hwy and Higgins (see Screenshot #5).

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

@maths22's tracker indicates that's not the case at FG. Looking at the current 1000 series and filtering for Forest Glen indicates that the  1000s are primarily on heavy routes (see Screenshot #1-#3). The feeders are mostly 8200s (see Screenshot #4) . Only thing that supports the theory is that most of the 8350s are on 56, but there are also some on N. Central, NW Hwy and Higgins (see Screenshot #5).

Harlem is strictly novas as of last Tuesday March 26.

Edited April 5 by Erin Mishkin Jr.
“was” to “is”

[artthouwill]

13 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Harlem is strictly novas as of last Tuesday March 26.

But are they ALL 8350s  or a combination of 7900s and 8350s or all 7900s?

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

7 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

But are they ALL 8350s  or a combination of 7900s and 8350s or all 7900s?

Right now it’s all 8350s except 8253. 8362 has been on Harlem quite a lot during the past few days. I believe it’s mostly 8350s with a 8200 or two and some 8325s on some days. 

[Sam92]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

@maths22's tracker indicates that's not the case at FG. Looking at the current 1000 series and filtering for Forest Glen indicates that the  1000s are primarily on heavy routes (see Screenshot #1-#3). The feeders are mostly 8200s (see Screenshot #4) . Only thing that supports the theory is that most of the 8350s are on 56, but there are also some on N. Central, NW Hwy and Higgins (see Screenshot #5).

Good find. So outside of 56 it throws a monkey wrench in the flyers in feeders rule. I'm gonna check maths and see if C is keeping 20 and 66 nova heavy. MAYBE 157

[Busjack]

43 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Harlem is strictly novas as of last Tuesday March 26.

 

28 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

But are they ALL 8350s  or a combination of 7900s and 8350s or all 7900s?

However, the assertion, especially by @artthouwill is that the Novas all go downtown. Unless you are counting downtown Norridge and Oak Park, they don't.

Also, except for the collision avoidance system, CTA maintenance says there is only a 7900 series, so Art's question is somewhat irrelevant to them. The only thing that looks relevant to me is that someone in the Office of Vice President, Bus Operations first put 8350s at FG, then traded some 8200s to K for 1600s,but then sent some 8100s to FG and 74th. Other than that, you can click on my screenshots above, or go to a tracker for now and answer the question yourself.

[andrethebusman]

CTA has for many years only segregated artics on specific routes. Other than that, since the days of the 5307s, anything can be on any route. For instance, the 6400s could be found on any route out of the garages they were at.

This was not always the case. In the 1960s some garages were very picky what went on what route, while others were not. You never saw a bus "out of place" at Lawndale for instance, while 77th was whatever was next on the track goes.

[artthouwill]

K looks like they're using all Novas on the 126 and the 7.  The nonartics on the 12 appears to be all Novas.  I was only able to spot one 60, but it was a New Flyer.   As for the Novas it didn't matter whether they were 7900s or 8350s.  There was a mixture of both.  I have yet to check out the C routes like  20, 65, 66, and 157, though last I remember they were mostly Novas but the very last one I saw was a New Flyer. 

BTW all the Novas that run NB on the 8 still have Waveland as the destination while the New Flyers still sport Broadway as the destination. 

[Busjack]

28 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

BTW all the Novas that run NB on the 8 still have Waveland as the destination while the New Flyers still sport Broadway as the destination.

Since where the buses sit is between the two, unless some aren't pulling in there, it is merely an inconsistency.

[artthouwill]

40 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Since where the buses sit is between the two, unless some aren't pulling in there, it is merely an inconsistency.

I know it's an inconsistency.   It's existence dates back in the 6400s.  It STILL shouldn't be an inconsistency.   I haven't observed the 9 yet, but probably the same issue at Vincennes/103rd vs Beverly/103rd.

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

K looks like they're using all Novas on the 126 and the 7.  The nonartics on the 12 appears to be all Novas.  I was only able to spot one 60, but it was a New Flyer.   As for the Novas it didn't matter whether they were 7900s or 8350s.  There was a mixture of both.  I have yet to check out the C routes like  20, 65, 66, and 157, though last I remember they were mostly Novas but the very last one I saw was a New Flyer. 

BTW all the Novas that run NB on the 8 still have Waveland as the destination while the New Flyers still sport Broadway as the destination. 

It's strange that it's like that between buses. Wouldn't the clevver device technology be the same regardless?

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

It's strange that it's like that between buses. Wouldn't the clevver device technology be the same regardless?

The CD does not control the sign's programming. The issue is that 7900-8324 use Luminator signs and 8325 up use Hanover signs (difference can be seen in the lower case letters), and apparently CTA didn't put the same text into each.

[YoungBusLover]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

K looks like they're using all Novas on the 126 and the 7.  The nonartics on the 12 appears to be all Novas.  I was only able to spot one 60, but it was a New Flyer.   As for the Novas it didn't matter whether they were 7900s or 8350s.  There was a mixture of both.  I have yet to check out the C routes like  20, 65, 66, and 157, though last I remember they were mostly Novas but the very last one I saw was a New Flyer. 

BTW all the Novas that run NB on the 8 still have Waveland as the destination while the New Flyers still sport Broadway as the destination. 

Certain buses regardless of model around the system have yet to receive the recent software update from last year, So every blue moon you'll find a bus with the old signage, which for me is a breath of fresh air. Also #8666 is at SS. While #8648 is ready for pickup from SS.

[YoungBusLover]

#8665 entered service at C yesterday.

[YoungBusLover]

#8648 has entered service out of C today bringing there total up to 90 #8350s so far.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

#8648 has entered service out of C today bringing there total up to 90 #8350s so far.

I rode 8635 on the 126 yesterday.   These assignments are pretty wacky.

[jajuan]

On 4/3/2024 at 11:01 PM, Run312 said:

Cta management wants the new nova’s on east and west routes that run into downtown. The flyers are always relegated to feeder routes or small trips. I’m surprised Chicago isn’t all nova yet 

 

On 4/4/2024 at 9:13 AM, Busjack said:

Since when NP (other than 96 and 201) has mostly feeders or short routes? 151 or 155, and its share of 49 certainly aren't.

66 had artics, and except for a few trippers from K, had them pulled. 66 is supposed to have BEBs and now has 3 out of the 17 buses on 66.

My only conclusion is either CTA can't run its equipment or doesn't know what it wants to run.

Um as @Busjack alluded to in his response using NP as an example, that's not really true when K still runs NF 40 footers on the 7, 60 and 126 regularly enough. Some days there may be less. Other days there may be more. But the number run doesn't hit an insignificant level counted against the total number needed to run the route. In fact, those days there tend to be less typically typically see fairly close to an even split between 1000s, 7900s and 8350s. Main reason I didn't put the 12 is because it runs a significant number of artics these days. C is still running a steady number of them on the 65, 66 (even on days they've had higher numbers of electrics on route) and 157. The 20 had been but in theost recent couple of weeks more runs have been getting filled by 8350s. 

[jajuan]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:21 PM, artthouwill said:

I know it's an inconsistency.   It's existence dates back in the 6400s.  It STILL shouldn't be an inconsistency.   I haven't observed the 9 yet, but probably the same issue at Vincennes/103rd vs Beverly/103rd.

Nah. All SB extended trips on the 9 read Vincennes/104th.