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8350-series Nova LFS - Updates


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1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

They dont seem to like Xcelsiors. Were the 700s that bad??? I like them. If NF still sold the old shoebox model cta would be buying it.

What is wrong with the Xcelsiors?  I love the Pace West ones.  Here's hoping Pace gets more when they get the CNGS for Wheeling garage in 2023.

Perhaps CTA doesn't want a dramatic difference in fleet so complaints about favoring one garage or one part of the city doesn't become an issue.  While the 8350s won't stand out from the other Novas, the Xcelsiors would stand out compared to the rest of the fleet.  The Proterras are going to stand out as it is. 

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17 hours ago, Sam92 said:

No way in hell is 103rd losing Artics or the 6. J14 and 26 can’t move to 77th and 77th demands too many vehicles to hold artics which is why barring COVID they usually ditch them 

Ironically, the 26 would be the best route to move to 77th since it runs mixed fleet, but would be the worst choice operationally with all the deadhead

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Ironically, the 26 would be the best route to move to 77th since it runs mixed fleet, but would be the worst choice operationally with all the deadhead

Especially considering that the 26 route starts at the 103rd garage.  If you wish to move an artic route, it would be the 6.  The deadhead distance between the end or the route and 77th is about the same as from the end of the route is to

103rd.  When the 6 Jackson Park Express came into service it operated from 77th.   

 

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36 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Ironically, the 26 would be the best route to move to 77th since it runs mixed fleet, but would be the worst choice operationally with all the deadhead

No 26 would be best where it’s been. Why would you add 5 miles of deadhead over a mixed fleet when 26 has always on and off been that way. If that’s the case 6 and J14 should’ve moved in 2010 when the were also 50/50 artics half the time 

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7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

What is wrong with the Xcelsiors?  I love the Pace West ones.  Here's hoping Pace gets more when they get the CNGS for Wheeling garage in 2023.

Perhaps CTA doesn't want a dramatic difference in fleet so complaints about favoring one garage or one part of the city doesn't become an issue.  While the 8350s won't stand out from the other Novas, the Xcelsiors would stand out compared to the rest of the fleet.  The Proterras are going to stand out as it is. 

Speaking of which a proterra came out and was sitting in the Madison/Austin terminal around 1pm. Looked like it was attached to a supervisor. Couldnt get the number. 

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18 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Especially considering that the 26 route starts at the 103rd garage.  If you wish to move an artic route, it would be the 6.  The deadhead distance between the end or the route and 77th is about the same as from the end of the route is to

103rd.  When the 6 Jackson Park Express came into service it operated from 77th.   

 

18 hours ago, Sam92 said:

No 26 would be best where it’s been. Why would you add 5 miles of deadhead over a mixed fleet when 26 has always on and off been that way. If that’s the case 6 and J14 should’ve moved in 2010 when the were also 50/50 artics half the time 

Yes, that's why I said "ironically". The 26 was the route that could afford to move, since it ran mixed fleet but would be a much worse choice than the 6, since it started/ended so close to and then at, 103rd/Stony Island

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1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

Yes, that's why I said "ironically". The 26 was the route that could afford to move, since it ran mixed fleet but would be a much worse choice than the 6, since it started/ended so close to and then at, 103rd/Stony Island

Again it’s not about mixing equipment. Is there an increase in demand on 26 that necessitates more buses than 103rd can supply? No there isn’t especially when the terminal is on garage grounds and an increase of frequency on 26 isn’t happening anytime soon unless Jeffery is suddenly overwhelmed. If anything 77th needs to move something out or share if it’s keeping artics since it has so many high frequency trunk routes 

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9 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Again it’s not about mixing equipment. Is there an increase in demand on 26 that necessitates more buses than 103rd can supply? No there isn’t especially when the terminal is on garage grounds and an increase of frequency on 26 isn’t happening anytime soon unless Jeffery is suddenly overwhelmed. If anything 77th needs to move something out or share if it’s keeping artics since it has so many high frequency trunk routes 

77th can switch out the 51 and the 75 with 74th have the 75 run out of 7 since it stops at 79th red line

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7 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Again it’s not about mixing equipment. Is there an increase in demand on 26 that necessitates more buses than 103rd can supply? No there isn’t especially when the terminal is on garage grounds and an increase of frequency on 26 isn’t happening anytime soon unless Jeffery is suddenly overwhelmed. If anything 77th needs to move something out or share if it’s keeping artics since it has so many high frequency trunk routes 

You’re doing a lot over what was a joke. At no point did I seriously advocate for moving the 26 to 77th. I just pointed out something that was funny (someone suggesting the 6 move to 77th instead of the 26) and made a joke accordingly.
 

I’m fully aware the 26 is best at 103rd and if you’d taken the time to read, you’d have seen I acknowledged that by stating that there was no point in moving the route when it begins/ends at the garage, something you redundantly repeated. Calm down.

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3 hours ago, Anthony Devera said:

Does anyone here know how much the Xcelsiors share parts with the LF series Flyers? I believe the Xcelsiors are a completely different model, so one possible reason for CTA to get new Novas is because the new Novas share more parts with the 6400s than Xcelsiors share with the D40LFs, thus lowering maintenance costs.

Not sure if that info is publicly available. I’d hazard a guess at engine, transmission and wheel parts, since those are similar across a lot of buses, and maybe minor things like lights, windows, maybe even doors? But a whole lot could’ve changed. Even the Restyled NF LF didn’t look a lot like the original and those buses are basically related

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8 hours ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

77th can switch out the 51 and the 75 with 74th have the 75 run out of 7 since it stops at 79th red line

Exactly why can’t 77th just run the 75? Besides having 74th run it. Switch the 51 out of 77th and give that route to let 74th operate. anyways back on the 75 one of two routes that runs near 77th Garage with the 29 being the other route. On the other hand the 75 runs a little near 74th Garage even it stops at Damen going westbound. The 29 runs out of 103rd and it also runs near 77th Garage make that a 77th route. I remember back in the day the old Novas ran the 29 out of 77th even tho those were probably loans from 77th.

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1 hour ago, NovaBusFan said:

Exactly why can’t 77th just run the 75? Besides having 74th run it. Switch the 51 out of 77th and give that route to let 74th operate. anyways back on the 75 one of two routes that runs near 77th Garage with the 29 being the other route. On the other hand the 75 runs a little near 74th Garage even it stops at Damen going westbound. The 29 runs out of 103rd and it also runs near 77th Garage make that a 77th route. I remember back in the day the old Novas ran the 29 out of 77th even tho those were probably loans from 77th.

Why would 77th take the 75 when then 75 literally ends at 74th Garage? CTA moved the terminus of the 26 from near to 103rd/Stony Island for ease of operations. Same thing with the 94; the route literally turns around in 74th. The 85 doesn't end at Jeff Pk for this reason as well, it goes to FG. The 111A was also just moved from it's previous terminus to 103rd/Stony Island, for the same reason.

77th has the 51 instead of 74th because of the fact that while Kedzie Orange might be slightly closer to 74th/Damen than 77th is to 47th/Dan Ryan, it will always be quicker on the latter trip than the former, barring extreme traffic. This effectively creates another situation where the bus basically ends at the garage, since any potential deadheads can just run back to 47th in-service and then get on the Dan Ryan and be back at the garage at 6-7 minutes. Same thing with the 75, the last EB bus leaves at 11p and the last WB returns at 12:23a, there's no need to deadhead; the bus can just return in service and pull right into the garage

Same thing with the 29. Sure, 77th is technically closer to the route, but by it being at 103rd, you preserve that last mile connection instead of buses terminating at 79th, make sure there's no buses aren't deadhead back along the route, and when the bus is done at 95th, it can literally hop on Bishop Ford at be at 103rd in under 10 mins. The 29 could also be interlined as well, but that's speculation on my part. During the day, it also could also function as a way to get drivers to/from 103rd to 95th if a bus is going into/out of service, which I suspect is part of the reason the 85 goes to FG.

CTA is usually pretty good with its placement of routes. Even the 54B is fairly accurate (both it's terminals are equidistant from a garage) and that one has been questioned a few times on the forum

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

You’re doing a lot over what was a joke. At no point did I seriously advocate for moving the 26 to 77th. I just pointed out something that was funny (someone suggesting the 6 move to 77th instead of the 26) and made a joke accordingly.
 

I’m fully aware the 26 is best at 103rd and if you’d taken the time to read, you’d have seen I acknowledged that by stating that there was no point in moving the route when it begins/ends at the garage, something you redundantly repeated. Calm down.

Have you seen some of the stuff that’s gotten suggested in the past and were actually serious? Like if you’re joking cool but look back and see weird suggestions like 27 prairie or a 58 ravenswood bus and see why 😂

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2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Why would 77th take the 75 when then 75 literally ends at 74th Garage? CTA moved the terminus of the 26 from near to 103rd/Stony Island for ease of operations. Same thing with the 94; the route literally turns around in 74th. The 85 doesn't end at Jeff Pk for this reason as well, it goes to FG. The 111A was also just moved from it's previous terminus to 103rd/Stony Island, for the same reason.

77th has the 51 instead of 74th because of the fact that while Kedzie Orange might be slightly closer to 74th/Damen than 77th is to 47th/Dan Ryan, it will always be quicker on the latter trip than the former, barring extreme traffic. This effectively creates another situation where the bus basically ends at the garage, since any potential deadheads can just run back to 47th in-service and then get on the Dan Ryan and be back at the garage at 6-7 minutes. Same thing with the 75, the last EB bus leaves at 11p and the last WB returns at 12:23a, there's no need to deadhead; the bus can just return in service and pull right into the garage

Same thing with the 29. Sure, 77th is technically closer to the route, but by it being at 103rd, you preserve that last mile connection instead of buses terminating at 79th, make sure there's no buses aren't deadhead back along the route, and when the bus is done at 95th, it can literally hop on Bishop Ford at be at 103rd in under 10 mins. The 29 could also be interlined as well, but that's speculation on my part. During the day, it also could also function as a way to get drivers to/from 103rd to 95th if a bus is going into/out of service, which I suspect is part of the reason the 85 goes to FG.

CTA is usually pretty good with its placement of routes. Even the 54B is fairly accurate (both it's terminals are equidistant from a garage) and that one has been questioned a few times on the forum

That’s why I said on the other hand it is really near 74th. But I do agree with u tbh

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12 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Why would 77th take the 75 when then 75 literally ends at 74th Garage? CTA moved the terminus of the 26 from near to 103rd/Stony Island for ease of operations. Same thing with the 94; the route literally turns around in 74th. The 85 doesn't end at Jeff Pk for this reason as well, it goes to FG. The 111A was also just moved from it's previous terminus to 103rd/Stony Island, for the same reason.

77th has the 51 instead of 74th because of the fact that while Kedzie Orange might be slightly closer to 74th/Damen than 77th is to 47th/Dan Ryan, it will always be quicker on the latter trip than the former, barring extreme traffic. This effectively creates another situation where the bus basically ends at the garage, since any potential deadheads can just run back to 47th in-service and then get on the Dan Ryan and be back at the garage at 6-7 minutes. Same thing with the 75, the last EB bus leaves at 11p and the last WB returns at 12:23a, there's no need to deadhead; the bus can just return in service and pull right into the garage

Same thing with the 29. Sure, 77th is technically closer to the route, but by it being at 103rd, you preserve that last mile connection instead of buses terminating at 79th, make sure there's no buses aren't deadhead back along the route, and when the bus is done at 95th, it can literally hop on Bishop Ford at be at 103rd in under 10 mins. The 29 could also be interlined as well, but that's speculation on my part. During the day, it also could also function as a way to get drivers to/from 103rd to 95th if a bus is going into/out of service, which I suspect is part of the reason the 85 goes to FG.

CTA is usually pretty good with its placement of routes. Even the 54B is fairly accurate (both it's terminals are equidistant from a garage) and that one has been questioned a few times on the forum

29 actually fits better at 77th. Fun fact, 29 was moved to 103rd to balance out swings and add more all day straight runs (also why 95W moved there from 77th). Also as you noted being able to interline saves payroll as a lot of runs have a 29 trip at some point. 

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On 9/6/2021 at 1:53 PM, jajuan said:

This North sider says absolutely not. Keep it at a mix like it is now. It's already annoying that Dorval Carter went with Nova yet again instead of mixing things up for once and going for Xcelsiors truly being bold and mixing it up with the 40 foot fleet for once. Instead, he's basically trading one huge batch of monotony for another. So while the NF D40's are still here, let's keep the the different sections of the city at a good mix like it is now while it it's still possible and not encourage CTA management's serious lack of imagination when it comes to the bus fleet.

I would definitely love to see Forest Glen & North Park Garages have their fleets entirely Nova.

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  • garmon757 changed the title to 8350-series Nova LFS - Updates
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