X4 Cottage Grove Express

[andrethebusman]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:32 AM, artthouwill said:

The two surprises to me:.

1. Bidirectional peak service 

2. The route doesn't follow King Drive north of 35th, as in previous iterations.  I figured the 1 supplementinf the 4 along Michigan/Indiana was good enough. 

Though this doesn't take effect until August, it's interesting that CTA is making a service expansion during a time of staffing shortages. Neither does the route extend to Michigan/Chicago.   

U didn't expect the X4 to go to 115th, but if there's no reduction in local 4 service,  it might make sense for the X4 to use the Burnside turnaround instead of crowding the Chicago State turnaround.   However it's not clear which one the X4 will actually use.

Map implies Cottage-93-Woodlawn-95-Cottage.

[artthouwill]

17 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Map implies Cottage-93-Woodlawn-95-Cottage.

Where would the X4 layover,  on Woodlawn just north of 95th?  Ir maybe each X4 does only one round trip?

[NewFlyerMCI]

43 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Map implies Cottage-93-Woodlawn-95-Cottage.

 

24 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Where would the X4 layover,  on Woodlawn just north of 95th?  Ir maybe each X4 does only one round trip?

They did that on the map, but I honestly don’t see why they’d do that. Nothing but storage spaces and a few extra houses. X4 could take that alignment and still layover at 94th, but I don’t see why it just wouldn’t go to 94th (or CSU)

[BusHunter]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:32 PM, artthouwill said:

The two surprises to me:.

1. Bidirectional peak service 

2. The route doesn't follow King Drive north of 35th, as in previous iterations.  I figured the 1 supplementinf the 4 along Michigan/Indiana was good enough. 

Though this doesn't take effect until August, it's interesting that CTA is making a service expansion during a time of staffing shortages. Neither does the route extend to Michigan/Chicago.   

U didn't expect the X4 to go to 115th, but if there's no reduction in local 4 service,  it might make sense for the X4 to use the Burnside turnaround instead of crowding the Chicago State turnaround.   However it's not clear which one the X4 will actually use.

You know, call me crazy, but cta has been known to do service expansions when it receives new buses. Has anyone asked where they will get the extra buses? Something is telling me the #8350's may go into service in August, if that when the #X4 starts. Maybe someone needs to suggest an #X63!! Lol!! (For the proterras)

[artthouwill]

41 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

They did that on the map, but I honestly don’t see why they’d do that. Nothing but storage spaces and a few extra houses. X4 could take that alignment and still layover at 94th, but I don’t see why it just wouldn’t go to 94th (or CSU)

Based on them saying that there's no reduction on the 4, I believe 94th is the better option only to keep the CSU turnaround from being overly contested   I concede that may be a moot point  since I believe that no X4 will do more than one round trip.  If the route ends at CSU, the bus can stay on 95th and head to the garage. 

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

You know, call me crazy, but cta has been known to do service expansions when it receives new buses. Has anyone asked where they will get the extra buses? Something is telling me the #8350's may go into service in August, if that when the #X4 starts. Maybe someone needs to suggest an #X63!! Lol!! (For the proterras)

A couple of years ago, @andrethebusman posted a roster that said that CTA had 100 spare artics. Fortunately, they were around for COVID, but my suspicion is that CTA is still 100 buses over its needs, which may explain the large boneyard.

63rd again raises the question of the Midway charger's purpose.

[BusHunter]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

A couple of years ago, @andrethebusman posted a roster that said that CTA had 100 spare artics. Fortunately, they were around for COVID, but my suspicion is that CTA is still 100 buses over its needs, which may explain the large boneyard.

63rd again raises the question of the Midway charger's purpose.

Remember when they got all the 1000s in 2006. The X routes started that year. I just went passed SS its depressing over there. None of the buses have license plates that I can see. This has to be one of the craziest bus deployments I have seen. But really the proterras are worse. They have been dilly dallying since 2018 and all they have in service is 9 buses. I'm really going to be interested in the Pace proterras to see is this a fluke with cta or what. Maybe Gillig will bail Pace out.

[renardo870]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:26 PM, strictures said:

No, I take the Green Line to Clinton & then walk a block to Ogilvie to catch a train.

And yes, I want the new X4 to stop at 58th, where all the people are, instead of 59th, where no one is!  All of the UChicago Medicine clinics & hospitals are at 58th!

Exactly!! The X4 should stop @55th, 57th, 58th, 59th and 61st in the area I call The U of C zone.

[strictures]

1 hour ago, renardo870 said:

Exactly!! The X4 should stop @55th, 57th, 58th, 59th and 61st in the area I call The U of C zone.

There's rarely anyone getting on or off at 59th & 61st, as I often take the 4 from the 63rd Green line terminal at Cottage Grove. 

A few people do use 57th, but it's in a really weird location, far north of 57th for the NB buses, due to the ER entrance for the ambulances.

[Shannoncvpi]

9 minutes ago, strictures said:

There's rarely anyone getting on or off at 59th & 61st, as I often take the 4 from the 63rd Green line terminal at Cottage Grove. 

A few people do use 57th, but it's in a really weird location, far north of 57th for the NB buses, due to the ER entrance for the ambulances.

People do use the 61st street stop alot jewels right ther on 61st & cottage 

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, strictures said:

There's rarely anyone getting on or off at 59th & 61st, as I often take the 4 from the 63rd Green line terminal at Cottage Grove. 

A few people do use 57th, but it's in a really weird location, far north of 57th for the NB buses, due to the ER entrance for the ambulances.

So you're telling me no one gets on or off at 61st? ? Yeah ok...that Daycare center and Jewel-Osco begs to differ on that one. 57th is a wildcard but I sure do pick up my fair share of riders in both directions, especially NB if the 192 isn't running as frequent during the PM rush.

[Shannoncvpi]

10 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

So you're telling me no one gets on or off at 61st? ? Yeah ok...that Daycare center and Jewel-Osco begs to differ on that one. 57th is a wildcard but I sure do pick up my fair share of riders in both directions, especially NB if the 192 isn't running as frequent during the PM rush.

Thats what I'm saying then you be having peoole that go to both of those places plus the biggest the law breaking college police bulding right round the corner & the post office right behind jewels

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Exactly!! The X4 should stop @55th, 57th, 58th, 59th and 61st in the area I call The U of C zone.

It isn't express if it makes all local stops. 61st for the reasons stated and connection to the 59 bus, and I guess 58th to be in the middle of the medical center. Really no point to 57th and 59th.

[artthouwill]

Now that the X4 will be bidirectional,  I'd be willing to trade 59th for 58th. I'd keep 57th for the DuSable Museum.

[NewFlyerMCI]

18 hours ago, strictures said:

There's rarely anyone getting on or off at 59th & 61st, as I often take the 4 from the 63rd Green line terminal at Cottage Grove. 

A few people do use 57th, but it's in a really weird location, far north of 57th for the NB buses, due to the ER entrance for the ambulances.

 

17 hours ago, Shannoncvpi said:

People do use the 61st street stop alot jewels right ther on 61st & cottage 

 

15 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

So you're telling me no one gets on or off at 61st? ? Yeah ok...that Daycare center and Jewel-Osco begs to differ on that one. 57th is a wildcard but I sure do pick up my fair share of riders in both directions, especially NB if the 192 isn't running as frequent during the PM rush.

Imo experience as a rider, 60th is more used than 61st for the Jewels and that’s also where  59 is, so I say 63rd > 60th > 57th > 55th

[YoungBusLover]

3 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

 

 

Imo experience as a rider, 60th is more used than 61st for the Jewels and that’s also where  59 is, so I say 63rd > 60th > 57th > 55th

61st is where everyone gets boards and alights for Jewels, the 59 runs parallel to 61st which is why the X4 should stop there. I've never seen anyone get off at 60th just to walk an entire block up the street through the jewels parking lot just to get an item or two. Everyone gets off at 61st and the front entrance of jewels is on 61st so it makes sense. The only reason I'd see 60th being used is for the PM rush of the #2 outside of that it's not necessary to have the X4 stop there. 58th and 61st makes the most sense but with the locals keeping the same frequency it shouldn't be a problem for riders. It'll take a few weeks to get use to but they'll figure it out. I just hope CTA puts everyone on notice about the X4.

[NewFlyerMCI]

5 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

61st is where everyone gets boards and alights for Jewels, the 59 runs parallel to 61st which is why the X4 should stop there. I've never seen anyone get off at 60th just to walk an entire block up the street through the jewels parking lot just to get an item or two. Everyone gets off at 61st and the front entrance of jewels is on 61st so it makes sense. The only reason I'd see 60th being used is for the PM rush of the #2 outside of that it's not necessary to have the X4 stop there. 58th and 61st makes the most sense but with the locals keeping the same frequency it shouldn't be a problem for riders. It'll take a few weeks to get use to but they'll figure it out. I just hope CTA puts everyone on notice about the X4.

Had to go look at the map again and I got the streets mixed up, I did actually mean 61st lol. It all blends together at a point, but I definitely leave the jewels and walk to the right to get to the SB 4 stop. I agree with everything you said with that in mind.

[renardo870]

2 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

61st is where everyone gets boards and alights for Jewels, the 59 runs parallel to 61st which is why the X4 should stop there. I've never seen anyone get off at 60th just to walk an entire block up the street through the jewels parking lot just to get an item or two. Everyone gets off at 61st and the front entrance of jewels is on 61st so it makes sense. The only reason I'd see 60th being used is for the PM rush of the #2 outside of that it's not necessary to have the X4 stop there. 58th and 61st makes the most sense but with the locals keeping the same frequency it shouldn't be a problem for riders. It'll take a few weeks to get use to but they'll figure it out. I just hope CTA puts everyone on notice about the X4.

Yes, CTA really doesn't market a lot of  its routes like they should. The 128, 130, 146 gets marketed to the Museum Campus/Soldier Field area from Metra Union/OTC The 10 is marketed for Museum/StateSt/Mag Mile area. 19 is marketed for Metra Millennium Park/OTC/Union for United Center events. Even the 2/171//172/192 is marketed for U of C students and workers for Hyde Park, the Loop and Metra Union Station and OTC. The 4/X4 should be marketed as well like the 9/X9 and 49/X49 routes.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, renardo870 said:

The 4/X4 should be marketed as well like the 9/X9 and 49/X49 routes.

There's no need to market a route that is overcrowded. The high passenger load on 4 was the justification for X4.

Many of the routes you cited (such as 128, 10, 19/171/172/192), if marketed at all, are because someone else is paying for them.

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Had to go look at the map again and I got the streets mixed up, I did actually mean 61st lol. It all blends together at a point, but I definitely leave the jewels and walk to the right to get to the SB 4 stop. I agree with everything you said with that in mind.

Oh ok I gotcha. I was like "Huh?" ????

[YoungBusLover]

Just got some updated information on the CSU terminal situation. From the looks of things the #3 will terminate at the 95th Red Line and the #4 and #X4 will continue to terminate at CSU until November from what I'm told by the union. The relief point at 71st and Cottage may also get switched to the 95th Red Line but that is purely speculation at this point. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

Just got some updated information on the CSU terminal situation. From the looks of things the #3 will terminate at the 95th Red Line and the #4 and #X4 will continue to terminate at CSU until November from what I'm told by the union. The relief point at 71st and Cottage may also get switched to the 95th Red Line but that is purely speculation at this point. 

I have maintained that the 3 switching to 95th Red Line would work but not the 4 and X4.  So switching the relief point in the 4 is pointless unless the route also goes to 95th Red Line.   Rhat to me causes the terminal to be overly congested.  Perhaps if they can figure out how to send one route into the north terminal and the 4 to the south terminal ( or vice-versa), possibly moving 381 to 95th Street WB and possibly combining the 108 and 352 into one loading zone, it may be a gi.  But both the 3 and 4 are high frequency routes.   Even if only some 3s go to 95th while most go to 115th, in rush hours the X4 takes the place of those other buses.  

Based on what you are saying,  rge union wants 85th, but CRA wants to figure out how the logistics would work,  if at all 

That said, it might have been a good idea in hindsight to have built at least one island loading zone, maybe in the south terminal on the bridge.  Yes, when the 130th extension opens, there will be extra space,  but space is limited now and will be cramped with the addition of these routes

[YoungBusLover]

7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I have maintained that the 3 switching to 95th Red Line would work but not the 4 and X4.  So switching the relief point in the 4 is pointless unless the route also goes to 95th Red Line.   Rhat to me causes the terminal to be overly congested.  Perhaps if they can figure out how to send one route into the north terminal and the 4 to the south terminal ( or vice-versa), possibly moving 381 to 95th Street WB and possibly combining the 108 and 352 into one loading zone, it may be a gi.  But both the 3 and 4 are high frequency routes.   Even if only some 3s go to 95th while most go to 115th, in rush hours the X4 takes the place of those other buses.  

Based on what you are saying,  rge union wants 85th, but CRA wants to figure out how the logistics would work,  if at all 

That said, it might have been a good idea in hindsight to have built at least one island loading zone, maybe in the south terminal on the bridge.  Yes, when the 130th extension opens, there will be extra space,  but space is limited now and will be cramped with the addition of these routes

They'll probably have the 4 and X4 terminate along 96th and State street adjacent to the station for the relief point but I got another update on that and it appears the 4 and X4 relief point will be at the 95th Red line no later than November so basically the winter pick we should see something revised by then.

[artthouwill]

9 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

They'll probably have the 4 and X4 terminate along 96th and State street adjacent to the station for the relief point but I got another update on that and it appears the 4 and X4 relief point will be at the 95th Red line no later than November so basically the winter pick we should see something revised by then.

As an operator of the 4, where would you prefer the CSU runs terminate?  Also where would you prefer the driver relief point to be?  Would 95th Red Line also become the relief point for the 3 alsi?

[YoungBusLover]

19 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

As an operator of the 4, where would you prefer the CSU runs terminate?  Also where would you prefer the driver relief point to be?  Would 95th Red Line also become the relief point for the 3 alsi?

I've been advocating for the #4 to terminate out of the 95th Red Line for the longest time now because it fixes a lot of safety concerns we've all had over the years about that relief point on 79th along with CSU sort of being in no man's land for safety. 95th makes the most sense because there's shelter from the elements and if push comes to shoves CPD is always at 95th so that's a plus. Rather than having to take the Red Line to 69th to then transfer over to the infrequent #30,#67,# 71 routes just to make the relief on time at 71st and Cottage is nothing more than a headache. With the revised plans pulling out and deadheading to 95th to start a run is better than having to take the Red Line to 69th or even worse having to take 79th Street over to Cottage and then taking the 4 to 71st, now we'll probably still have to to the Red Line to 95th to make a relief at times but it's better than having to go do the current routing we have now. The relief point for the 3 will continue to be at 79th which in all honesty should get moved to 95th but again not to much noise has been made about it like the #4.