BusExpert32 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I must agree that the topic about where new equipment goes is overated now. Just think about service 3 years ago. Now that was worth complaint. With the rest of the NFs and 600s coming in soon, we should just be enjoying the last months of service for the 5300s, 4400s, 5800s, and half of the 6000s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I must agree that the topic about where new equipment goes is overated now. Just think about service 3 years ago. Now that was worth complaint. With the rest of the NFs and 600s coming in soon, we should just be enjoying the last months of service for the 5300s, 4400s, 5800s, and half of the 6000s. If you think that part of the discussion is overrated, that's your right. Though I like the TMCs, I won't be too upset when the last is gone. They are good buses but they are beyond their time of adequate use without the excessive breakdowns and loads of money to keep them operational these final months of service. I don't want memories of them falling apart at the seams because they were kept around too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Everyone needs to relax, were merely stating what our opinions are. No one knows for sure what is going where. We just try to have fun because we enjoy talking about Chicago Transit. Whatever the outcomes are as far as bus assignments, big deal on what goes where, lets just enjoy what is going on right now and what will soon be gone, I love buses CTA, Pace or whatever. I love talking about them, I enjoy sharing my experiences with CTA and Pace buses, sharing my opinions and thoughts. So lets not get upset or offended by what is said here because of what is going where. This is a site for all of us busfans and we should enjoy it. There are worse things happening out there!! Come on everyone, Lets have a truce!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Everyone needs to relax, were merely stating what our opinions are. No one knows for sure what is going where. We just try to have fun because we enjoy talking about Chicago Transit. Whatever the outcomes are as far as bus assignments, big deal on what goes where, lets just enjoy what is going on right now and what will soon be gone, I love buses CTA, Pace or whatever. I love talking about them, I enjoy sharing my experiences with CTA and Pace buses, sharing my opinions and thoughts. So lets not get upset or offended by what is said here because of what is going where. This is a site for all of us busfans and we should enjoy it. There are worse things happening out there!! Come on everyone, Lets have a truce!! I haven't really gotten too upset with most of what's been said, but the point is still well taken. We are stating our opinions, and we should be able to disagree without taking swipes at each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleSeven Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Everyone needs to relax, were merely stating what our opinions are. No one knows for sure what is going where. We just try to have fun because we enjoy talking about Chicago Transit. Whatever the outcomes are as far as bus assignments, big deal on what goes where, lets just enjoy what is going on right now and what will soon be gone, I love buses CTA, Pace or whatever. I love talking about them, I enjoy sharing my experiences with CTA and Pace buses, sharing my opinions and thoughts. So lets not get upset or offended by what is said here because of what is going where. This is a site for all of us busfans and we should enjoy it. There are worse things happening out there!! Come on everyone, Lets have a truce!! I second every word you have stated! Kudos. And since I'm still an avid fan of the Flx-6000s series, I will be deeply saddened when those buses will be gone. Just take it in stride. Those buses were mostly in part of me when they were on Roosevelt and all the routes at the 74th Garage, including Halsted before this past March. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and we don't know what CTA will pull as all of the TMCs, Flx-5300s & the older NFs will be dispursed and including some of the 6000s buses and where the 1000s series & the Nova Buses will go. Hell, we could see the Glen & Archer being an all Nova Country and the rest New Flyers, if all I care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 FG's Novas are 7 years old, a bit pass their operable midlife. Yes they got the Optimas, but being only 30 ft long, they're of little use to those of us who ride the more highly used routes that are assigned to FG. If we just look at FGs Flx-6000s alone, FG will probably need newer equipment sooner than the 2011 or 2012 Keep in mind also that FG lost some of the newest Nova's they had when that strange swap between them and 77th occurred. The FG fleet got a bit older when that one happened. Also realize that CTA doesn't necessary assign new equipment by specific garage, per se, but which section of town benefits the most. Archer has always seemed to have new equipment first going back to the fishbowl days. They got the second batch of Novas and the first of the New Flyers. Other than that, Kedzie went through areas of North, South and West all in one garage...all sections of town pretty much benefited from that. By then going to 77th, you offset the Archer diversity with the south side of town. From then on, its a crap shoot...hopefully replacing the oldest stuff (which we know doesn't really happen). Actually from now on, the easeest way to figure out where new equipment will go (other than waiting for info on the forum), is to just figure out the best way to make the most amount of moves, to keep someone's brother getting overtime to move the stuff from garage to garage. Then when the music stops, that is where the new equipment lands !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I second every word you have stated! Kudos. And since I'm still an avid fan of the Flx-6000s series, I will be deeply saddened when those buses will be gone. Just take it in stride. Those buses were mostly in part of me when they were on Roosevelt and all the routes at the 74th Garage, including Halsted before this past March. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and we don't know what CTA will pull as all of the TMCs, Flx-5300s & the older NFs will be dispursed and including some of the 6000s buses and where the 1000s series & the Nova Buses will go. Hell, we could see the Glen & Archer being an all Nova Country and the rest New Flyers, if all I care. In the seven years I served at CTA, I served proudly. I was fortunate to have worked out of three operating garages, K,NP,FG. I operated various types of buses even my favorites, Flyer D901 #9844 and Flxible/Cummins #5750 as well as the TMC RTSs and Flx 6000s. It was a great job and I did it well, I did it proud!. Even though I am no longer part of CTA now, I am and will always continue to be a fan, I always look forward to new equipment arriving. In 2002 when the Novas came online, I wasnt and still am not a fan of the NovaBus but I still enjoyed when a new Nova would arrive at FG with plastic wrapping still inside, no farebox installed yet and that new car smell. These experiences I enjoy sharing with my fellow busfans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordguy Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Series Consolidation: Penny-wise & Pound-foolish In support of recent posts by Jajuan and Tim, I thought it would be worthwhile to provide a link to a thread I started on June 14th. (Hope it works: I'm still not very computer-savvy). I still believe that there's a very simple, straight-forward, common-sense solution to this equipment-assignment conundrum. However, it runs counter to the CTA's plans for series consolidation. As with any large transit fleet, it just seems logical that use of the oldest equipment would be limited to peak service periods, because they're more expensive to maintain and operate than newer vehicles. Likewise, use of the newest ones would be maximized. (It doesn't require an advanced degree in transportation planning to recognize this logic, just common sense). Ideally, the 150-or-so surviving 6000s should be redistributed among several garages so they won't need to be scheduled for base service. (Slightly off topic: Considering the likely future ridership increase, just wondering if it might be advisable to mothball some of the withdrawn 6000s instead of scrapping them). In a recent post, someone said that the Novas are running well and suggested that the Nova-equipped barns didn't need New Flyers. True, they may still be reliable, but in another few years they'll be elderly and cranky just like today's 6000s. Because the Novas are such a large series, why not redistribute them throughout the system? All eight garages! That way, as they do begin to age, their use can be more limited. In the meantime, there will be 1,050 40-foot New Flyers on the roster once they're all delivered. There's no earthly reason why they shouldn't be allocated so that each garage has an ample supply of them --- including 74th, Archer, and Forest Glen. (Between late '72 and late '74, the CTA received 1,070 air-conditioned GMC Fishbowls. They WERE distributed throughout the system). Actually, series uniformity isn't a bad idea, under the right circumstances. If the CTA places future orders with New Flyer Industries, that could become a reality. (Boring for busfanners, but probably more efficient). But now isn't the time. I firmly believe that if the CTA was to honor the above suggestions, there would be improved quality of service overall, at less cost too. In addition, no communities would be shortchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nflyer22 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I strongly do agree with all of the above that you have said. Though series consolidation does provide some money-saving ideas, I believe spreading the buses evenly (or close enough) to all 8 garages throughout the system is well worth the facts given. It allows for older equipment, as aging goes, to be used less when their lifespan is soon coming to an end; it allows for all the equipment to age much more evenly and retire evenly also (take the Novas at Archer, they all have to be in use everyday, and don't get a break from another fleet to take over for some time, even if it's at such a minimum, though the Optimas are not efficient enough to run on such routes at Archer). And it allows for everyone, including non bus fans, to ride on a somewhat different, if not newer, bus everyday (I think it's a pain to see a Nova everyday on the #62 Archer since the Flyers were gone! ). I mean, if you think about it, even some of us on the south-southwest, including myself, would like to ride on a New Flyer sometime, if not ever from Archer or 74th, and same goes for up north at Forest Glen, but those around 74th are still pretty lucky to have Flyers, having something is way better than none. And one point that has been emphasized the most is that no garage should be left out, and 74th has been a very good example for over 13 years. Even with such a strong argument I'm putting up, I doubt it will make a difference in the transit system we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I certainly agree with you. But I do try to look at things from the other perspective, so this is what I came up with. By having 74th as all 6000s (until now), CTA only needs to send parts for those buses to one place, 74th. With garages with multiple types of buses, they need multiple types of parts which may make cost and distribution costs increase. Not to mention OT for training mechanics on each type of equipment. This probably wouldn't be a bad idea with a much newer fleet, ie. Chicago Avenue with all NFs, Archer with all Novas (but would need to be replaced in 2 - 3 years with all new equipment), but putting all of the oldest buses at one garage is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I certainly agree with you. But I do try to look at things from the other perspective, so this is what I came up with. By having 74th as all 6000s (until now), CTA only needs to send parts for those buses to one place, 74th. With garages with multiple types of buses, they need multiple types of parts which may make cost and distribution costs increase. Not to mention OT for training mechanics on each type of equipment. This probably wouldn't be a bad idea with a much newer fleet, ie. Chicago Avenue with all NFs, Archer with all Novas (but would need to be replaced in 2 - 3 years with all new equipment), but putting all of the oldest buses at one garage is bad. Actually optimum replacement time for the Novas based on average bus lifespans of 12 years would be 3-4 years. They're not quite as old as you're suggesting. The CTA may have a little more time than that. This is one model acquired by them that has held together pretty well without yet having their midlife rehabs going in full force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you wanted to know if FG Nova's are wearing out, the two buses I rode recently were very sluggish. #6801 and #6749, especially #6749. It is so sluggish from a stop they remind me of the #5300's. Could there transmissions be this worn out ? No wonder there has been talks of powertrains lately. Something needs an upgrade. Some of the #6000's actually have better pickup than the Nova's. Where they seem weak is unoperable AC. 74th has alot of hot buses that are #6000's. It makes for a long work day. With all this bus purchasing going on I wonder if the novas will be here after 12 years on the road. CTA has lacked in that area and has a chance in the next 5 years to replace what federal guidelines says should be replaced. On another front, I noticed something recently about #1731. You know those LED lights in the interior that cast a blue or purplish glow. This bus has LED lights that are casting a white glow not a blue one. Although there are two blue ones still in the front on both sides the whole mid section and rear has this white glow now. CTA officials must not have liked the blue glow. In other news #1327 and #1726 were both on the #11 yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you wanted to know if FG Nova's are wearing out, the two buses I rode recently were very sluggish. #6801 and #6749, especially #6749. It is so sluggish from a stop they remind me of the #5300's. Could there transmissions be this worn out ? No wonder there has been talks of powertrains lately. Something needs an upgrade. Some of the #6000's actually have better pickup than the Nova's. Where they seem weak is unoperable AC. 74th has alot of hot buses that are #6000's. It makes for a long work day. With all this bus purchasing going on I wonder if the novas will be here after 12 years on the road. CTA has lacked in that area and has a chance in the next 5 years to replace what federal guidelines says should be replaced. On another front, I noticed something recently about #1731. You know those LED lights in the interior that cast a blue or purplish glow. This bus has LED lights that are casting a white glow not a blue one. Although there are two blue ones still in the front on both sides the whole mid section and rear has this white glow now. CTA officials must not have liked the blue glow. In other news #1327 and #1726 were both on the #11 yesterday. 7-8 years before hearing too much about transmission problems is a decent record. Yeah I think 1327 and 1726 are part of those temporary loans to the northside to keep enough buses in service while that Blue Shuttle bus service between Rosemont and O'Hare is in operation over the next three weeks. From a previous post submitted by wordguy, NFs from 77th, Chicago and Kedzie were loaned to NP. See post 811 in this thread. They actually were sent up there last week likely to help out with the Taste. The decision was probably made to keep them up there with possibly a few others so there'd be enough for the Shuttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 OT here: Spotted #1323 yesterday afternoon working #11 Lincoln NB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Everyone needs to relax, were merely stating what our opinions are. No one knows for sure what is going where. We just try to have fun because we enjoy talking about Chicago Transit. Whatever the outcomes are as far as bus assignments, big deal on what goes where, lets just enjoy what is going on right now and what will soon be gone, I love buses CTA, Pace or whatever. I love talking about them, I enjoy sharing my experiences with CTA and Pace buses, sharing my opinions and thoughts. So lets not get upset or offended by what is said here because of what is going where. This is a site for all of us busfans and we should enjoy it. There are worse things happening out there!! Come on everyone, Lets have a truce!! I haven't really gotten too upset with most of what's been said, but the point is still well taken. We are stating our opinions, and we should be able to disagree without taking swipes at each other. Like I said before, I apologize to everyone here for getting mad, but I don't need no rants here. I'm out of this topic. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 Like I said before, I apologize to everyone here for getting mad, but I don't need no rants here. I'm out of this topic. That's all. The comments were meant for all of us in general Tim. They weren't aimed at you in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordguy Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I certainly agree with you. But I do try to look at things from the other perspective, so this is what I came up with. By having 74th as all 6000s (until now), CTA only needs to send parts for those buses to one place, 74th. With garages with multiple types of buses, they need multiple types of parts which may make cost and distribution costs increase. Not to mention OT for training mechanics on each type of equipment. This probably wouldn't be a bad idea with a much newer fleet, ie. Chicago Avenue with all NFs, Archer with all Novas (but would need to be replaced in 2 - 3 years with all new equipment), but putting all of the oldest buses at one garage is bad. ===I agree with your analysis. As long as the buses involved are still reliable, series consolidation probably would save some money, but only in the short term. As a series begins to age and become less dependable, it'd become more expensive to maintain, especially if the buses continue to be used for base service. So I can't help wondering whether short-term benefits would really outweigh long-term costs. In the long run, fleet standardization is probably a good idea. By 2017 or so, I could envision the CTA with a mostly New Flyer fleet, assuming they're not underbid by Orion or NABI for future orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renardo870 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Any word where the new NF Artics will be assigned starting next month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleSeven Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Any word where the new NF Artics will be assigned starting next month? Since the new BRT will be assigned as a trial-basis for the streets of Jeffery, 79th, Chicago Avenue and Halsted, more in likely, Kedzie, Chicago, 77th & 103rd could be getting the buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Since the new BRT will be assigned as a trial-basis for the streets of Jeffery, 79th, Chicago Avenue and Halsted, more in likely, Kedzie, Chicago, 77th & 103rd could be getting the buses. Agreed. However, because the BRT trial runs won't start until next year, it will interesting to see which routes they will be used on initially. Come to think of it, it will be interesting to see what their route assignments will be once the BRT trials begin. With a possible 163 buses to be delivered, we know all of them won't be on BRT service. Intial statements before the BRT announcements suggested that they wouldn't be used for Lake Shore Drive routes, but #14 being included in the initial trials throws that out the window. Perhaps the work on the NABIs will start this year so that it can be completed by the time the BRT service is set to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cta5658 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 does anyone know if there's been any new deliveries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 does anyone know if there's been any new deliveries Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 does anyone know if there's been any new deliveries cta5750 said last weekend #1756 was being delivered. #1755 is the highest bus in service. It was on the #9 Ashland yesterday. It had the byk rac advertizing. If I were to assume what came with #1756 I would say into the mid #1760's. They should be in service anytime from today to early next week. I'll let you know when I see one. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geneking7320 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 :o Agreed. However, because the BRT trial runs won't start until next year, it will interesting to see which routes they will be used on initially. Come to think of it, it will be interesting to see what their route assignments will be once the BRT trials begin. With a possible 163 buses to be delivered, we know all of them won't be on BRT service. Intial statements before the BRT announcements suggested that they wouldn't be used for Lake Shore Drive routes, but #14 being included in the initial trials throws that out the window. Perhaps the work on the NABIs will start this year so that it can be completed by the time the BRT service is set to begin. I didn't hear about work on the NABIs (riding the #147 I know they need it). Someone clue me in please. Gene King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I didn't hear about work on the NABIs (riding the #147 I know they need it). Someone clue me in please. Gene King That goes back about 2 or 3 years, when CTA said there was problems with the rear doors, frame at the articulation, etc. rmadison suggested that as the DE60LFs are received, they were not to replace the NABIs, but would allow for them to get work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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