More Bus Moves

[garmon757]

I see they're back to acting as if south side doesn't have crowded routes. The artic count at 103rd and 77th garages are so low at this point they can only cover one or 2 routes with them seeing as the routes that use them use a hefty amount forcing them to neglect the other routes that need them.

Well, using them for the Red Line construction is one of the main factors in why the decline of them especially at 77th. If they didn't move some of them to Kedzie and Chicago Garages, the how were they going to manage with them? Before the changes, #4300-32 were specifically for #6, #14, and sometimes #26 while at the time Chicago was the only big garage was lacking artics. Now, I'm not sure if spacing at 77th and 103rd is considered a factor of the decline of them but I will say that having them in multiple garages was the right move. This only "powerhouse" routes at 77th to me are #3, #4, #8, and #79.

[jajuan]

I see they're back to acting as if south side doesn't have crowded routes. The artic count at 103rd and 77th garages are so low at this point they can only cover one or 2 routes with them seeing as the routes that use them use a hefty amount forcing them to neglect the other routes that need them.

Only two artics got reported reassigned this weekend but to some degree I agree with you from the standpoint that more specifically it seems like they've gone back to acting like NP is the only garage with busy routes given that about 7 or 8 artics got sent there from Kedzie not too long ago, two weekends ago to be exact. Before that move NP was still at 100 plus artics and therefore in my opinion needed no more especially given that they've made weekend calls that weekend service can do without artics or very little at most during downturns of this crazy winter weather. I had commented shortly after that that if Kedzie had to lose artics the more logical choice should have been 77th or 103rd. My thinking was and still is leaning more toward 77th since 77th gave up 23 artics to Chicago to add along with 18 total that came from both NP and 103rd to make the 66 an all artic route or pretty close to it.

[Sam92]

Well, using them for the Red Line construction is one of the main factors in why the decline of them especially at 77th. If they didn't move some of them to Kedzie and Chicago Garages, the how were they going to manage with them? Before the changes, #4300-32 were specifically for #6, #14, and sometimes #26 while at the time Chicago was the only big garage was lacking artics. Now, I'm not sure if spacing at 77th and 103rd is considered a factor of the decline of them but I will say that having them in multiple garages was the right move. This only "powerhouse" routes at 77th to me are #3, #4, #8, and #79.

I don't have a problem with Chicago having artics to cover their heavy routes. But K and NP should have been the main ones sending artics to Chicago. The 46 artics at 103rd are enough to just barely cover the 6 and J14 but none to run a few on 26, 28 and the various runs on the Dan Ryan that were being filled when 103rd had 60. And with 79th becoming exclusively artic, 60 artics STILL barely covered the crowds since the 4 routes you mentioned use as many as 30 buses in the peak. So figuring 30 artics are currently used alone on 79th and 3, 4, 8, 87 would need to run around 10-15 a piece to really keep crowds down, 77th about 20 more than they had from the October 20th pick. This pick leaves nearly no artics to run on anything outside of 79th leaving routes 2, 3, 4, 87 to rely on only 40ft buses again.

[wordguy]

1246-1247, 1258-1265 (10) FG to 77th, 6819-6828 (10) 77th to FG

That really seems strange. Why would FG, already the most New-Flyer-poor garage in the system, continue to lose more? And, as RJL6000 observed, all of FG's NFs were held in today. If additional NFs beyond the ten that were moved this weekend are also being traded for old Novas, that would leave FG with an entire fleet of buses beyond their FTA-mandated 12-year minimum service life.

Even if FG is slated to receive the first allotment of Nova Smart buses, it doesn't seem like a very smart move. But maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I guess we'll know more Monday, and maybe in the next few weeks.

[Busjack]

That really seems strange. Why would FG, already the most New-Flyer-poor garage in the system, continue to lose more? And, as RJL6000 observed, all of FG's NFs were held in today. If additional NFs beyond the ten that were moved this weekend are also being traded for old Novas, that would leave FG with an entire fleet of buses beyond their FTA-mandated 12-year minimum service life.

Even if FG is slated to receive the first allotment of Nova Smart buses, it doesn't seem like a very smart move. But maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I guess we'll know more Monday, and maybe in the next few weeks.

The difference seems to be that since FG originally had approx. 6758-6883, then let go some of the higher ones, then got them back, it seems to be at square one.

In any event, the ones with the orange LED signs (6709-6883, minus wrecks) would be the last replaced, as they are at least a year younger than the original block (numbered under that); the first of the 6709s were received in March 2002, after a hiatus.*

________

*The theory then was to receive 150 buses a year, but the base order apparently was delayed, so Option 1 essentially was delivered as part of the base order.

[wordguy]

The difference seems to be that since FG originally had approx. 6758-6883, then let go some of the higher ones, then got them back, it seems to be at square one.

In any event, the ones with the orange LED signs (6709-6883, minus wrecks) would be the last replaced, as they are at least a year younger than the original block (numbered under that); the first of the 6709s were received in March 2002, after a hiatus.*

________

*The theory then was to receive 150 buses a year, but the base order apparently was delayed, so Option 1 essentially was delivered as part of the base order.

I stand corrected, Busjack. So most of the 6709s are actually 11+ years old; that's still pushing it! Even if FG was to get 6709-6883 back (182 units deducting the three wrecks), its entire fleet of 240+ vehicles would still be of an age where they'd normally be relegated to more limited service, as opposed to being available 24-7.

Considering the severity of this winter and the fact that those buses are stored outside, it doesn't seem like smart planning --- even if FG does receive, say, 10 Nova Smart buses a week for maybe 12 weeks beginning later this month.

Also, if FG was to get the first allotment of new Novas, the most decrepit of the 6400s (which seem to be at 77th) wouldn't be the earliest units retired --- unless FG sends some 6800s back to 77th again, as the new equipment arrives at FG. Whatever the scenario, I can't make sense of it --- unless FG's remaining NFs are back on the street there tomorrow.

But, as I stated earlier, let's see what happens in the near future. Maybe I'll have to eat crow.

UPDATE: Just out of curiosity, I scanned #77 and #81. The owl runs are being filled with the remaining New Flyers. It just occurred to me: Maybe the FG operations managers decided to hold them in because of the Super Bowl. Pass the mustard!

[garmon757]

The difference seems to be that since FG originally had approx. 6758-6883, then let go some of the higher ones, then got them back, it seems to be at square one.

In any event, the ones with the orange LED signs (6709-6883, minus wrecks) would be the last replaced, as they are at least a year younger than the original block (numbered under that); the first of the 6709s were received in March 2002, after a hiatus.*

________

*The theory then was to receive 150 buses a year, but the base order apparently was delayed, so Option 1 essentially was delivered as part of the base order.

Wait, hold on a sec. I thought FG started it's Novas at 6756-6883 back in 2002 after Chicago had them starting from 6630-6755.

[Busjack]

Wait, hold on a sec. I thought FG started it's Novas at 6756-6883 back in 2002 after Chicago had them starting from 6630-6755.

That could be, and probably was.

...

Also, if FG was to get the first allotment of new Novas, the most decrepit of the 6400s (which seem to be at 77th) wouldn't be the earliest units retired --- unless FG sends some 6800s back to 77th again, as the new equipment arrives at FG. Whatever the scenario, I can't make sense of it --- unless FG's remaining NFs are back on the street there tomorrow.

....

If history is any guide, 77th will get the first buses, because either Archer or 77th* always gets the first buses, and Archer is gone. 77th has the oldest.

There may be a question about how many theoretically are already replaced by 4300s.

On the outdoor storage front, CTA knew that when it received those buses.** Also, except those that were transferred to 77th, the buses that get the lightest duty are at FG. It was surmised that the previous transfer was to even out the mileage.

_______________

*When the 6400s came, the newspaper reports were that "Route 3 King Dr. is getting them, because of the old equipment," even though 77th also had the first 6000s, which then were dispersed elsewhere.

**Before that, FG got K's 6000s and K got the 5500s because the 5500s didn't have preheaters, leaving, after the Novas arrived, K with the worst average age, since the plan apparently was that garages had 5300s and 6400s, but because of the swap, FG had 6000s and 6400s.

[jajuan]

Apparently FG still has many of the 59 NFs that should still be there after sending 1258-1260 and 1262-1265 to 77th. What routes that are using NFs today for now only have one to two in operation among the Novas that are on the routes. It should be noted though that there are no FG Optimas in service right now, not even on the 205 or 206.

[garmon757]

Here are the busses that are temporary out of service at 77th Garage as of 02/04/14 (busses may vary depending on whether or not some are in line of a major rehab, retirement, and/or would be released back to their respective garages):

1959* 1931* 1259*/** 1104 6599* 6635* 4082 4138 4032 4066 529 4078 4070? 4107 4191 6759 521 538 4346 4344 6504 501 542 531 512 6631 530 1454 535 1143 Flxible WB-2 1817 1619 903 518 541 502 1208 513 1221 508 510 1087 500 4064 908 525 1492 902 1655 Nova WB-1 (x-6402) 1468 1275 901 904 1902

3 non-numbered New Flyers inside the shop for rehab.

There is a Flxible 5300s Work Bus in the back.

New Flyer 5900s are parked the same position.

There is an old lime-green and white colored GMC New Look bus in the back.

* Training busses

** Rehabbed

[BusHunter]

Here are the busses that are temporary out of service at 77th Garage as of 02/04/14 (busses may vary depending on whether or not some are in line of a major rehab, retirement, and/or would be released back to their respective garages):

1959* 1931* 1259*/** 1104 6599* 6635* 4082 4138 4032 4066 529 4078 4070? 4107 4191 6759 521 538 4346 4344 6504 501 542 531 512 6631 530 1454 535 1143 Flxible WB-2 1817 1619 903 518 541 502 1208 513 1221 508 510 1087 500 4064 908 525 1492 902 1655 Nova WB-1 (x-6402) 1468 1275 901 904 1902

3 non-numbered New Flyers inside the shop for rehab.

There is a Flxible 5300s Work Bus in the back.

New Flyer 5900s are parked the same position.

There is an old lime-green and white colored GMC New Look bus in the back.

* Training busses

** Rehabbed

I wonder what ever happened to the NF 40 foot bus that was cut in two parts? Wasn't that #1482? Another bus to look for at South Shops is #4071, it's been off the roster I believe working on it's 2nd year.. Also is there any visible damage to #1468?

Looking at the Optimas, with the arrival of the #7900's, most likely all those buses numbered above are toast. We'll be lucky if we ever see an Optima in service again at 77th, unless it comes from the in service pool of buses that's left.

So #1259 is rehabbed?

[dann]

I wonder what ever happened to the NF 40 foot bus that was cut in two parts? Wasn't that #1482? Another bus to look for at South Shops is #4071, it's been off the roster I believe working on it's 2nd year.. Also is there any visible damage to #1468?

So #1259 is rehabbed?

1259 is rehabbed, I rode it on #56 a couple weeks ago.

[dann]

And 1482 I think was the bus that was stolen and then wrecked back in 2010 or 2011.

[ChicagoNova]

I'm just curious. Is Kedzie still sending artics to #62, or has that stopped?

[Sam92]

I'm just curious. Is Kedzie still sending artics to #62, or has that stopped?

yes they are for school trips

[garmon757]

I wonder what ever happened to the NF 40 foot bus that was cut in two parts? Wasn't that #1482? Another bus to look for at South Shops is #4071, it's been off the roster I believe working on it's 2nd year.. Also is there any visible damage to #1468?

Looking at the Optimas, with the arrival of the #7900's, most likely all those buses numbered above are toast. We'll be lucky if we ever see an Optima in service again at 77th, unless it comes from the in service pool of buses that's left.

So #1259 is rehabbed?

I haven't seen #4071 in 3 years but I don't know why it's still not in service. #1468 is missing a bike rack but it doesn't seem like there's any other physical damage. I believe dann is right about #1482 being stolen and totaled by some idiot. I think the Optimas have some life left and should be an alternative for transit purposes.

[andrethebusman]

Wasn't 1468 the one that was wrecked at Kedzie/Diversey when driver had some kind of seizure? 1482 has been out a long time, hit building I think on Chicago Ave. 4071 was at 103rd, sent to North Park, retired a month or less later.

Speaking of strange things - anybody know anything about the NFIL body shell sitting along the fence behind the shopping center along with the Nova's, etc? Just a shell - absolutely no interior, suspension, anything. No numbers, no identification of any kind. Show relatively minor front end wreck damage. Rumor had it that this was a bus that was wrecked at South Beloit Toll Plaza on I-90 during delivery and was replaced. If so, what is the replaced one?

[andrethebusman]

The question is what is the Nova bus WB-1's original bus number? Unless that's #6450 or #6402 or #6404, the rest are wrecked or in service. #6402 and #6400 were supposed to go to Olive-Harvey College, but I notice #6400 is still in service. It was on I believe the #3 or #4 today. The destination sign looks to be different than a regular #6400 sign. Maybe it's something taped to the inside of the destination sign cover. I guess there will be many more Nova work buses coming soon, when they get this smart bus order.

So have Nova WB1 and WB2 been positively ID'd??

[andrethebusman]

The proposal was to haul them off and junk them. If CTA said they were unrepairable because (1) they were garbage, and (2) they had been sitting in the yard since 2010 (now 4 years), CTA would have to be insane to try to cannibalize them.

Besides that, NABI, now New Flyer, agreed to pay with new parts from their part operation.

The real question is that CTA never posted who had the scrap contract, and what time the bidder had to haul the carcasses out of the yards.

And since you want to go in this direction, is Jewel selling surplus Safeway Kitchens food? I'm not being facetious, as I know another store that did (also Wegman's) and called out the owner on it.

In the meantime, the question was directed to Garmon.

The 7500's have been going to the Sims Metals yard at Blue Island and Wolcott. Wes's Towing has been hauling them. CTA official roster now shows only 53 stored at SS. A month ago still had 173. Not sure if this change means they have actually been junked or simply authorized for retirement pending removal. The other 43 were in fact junked last fall, including the 24 or so that had been stored at 103rd.

[BusHunter]

Wasn't 1468 the one that was wrecked at Kedzie/Diversey when driver had some kind of seizure? 1482 has been out a long time, hit building I think on Chicago Ave. 4071 was at 103rd, sent to North Park, retired a month or less later.

Speaking of strange things - anybody know anything about the NFIL body shell sitting along the fence behind the shopping center along with the Nova's, etc? Just a shell - absolutely no interior, suspension, anything. No numbers, no identification of any kind. Show relatively minor front end wreck damage. Rumor had it that this was a bus that was wrecked at South Beloit Toll Plaza on I-90 during delivery and was replaced. If so, what is the replaced one?

I was told it was #1466 that wrecked at Diversey/Kedzie.

I was trying to figure out this accident at Armitage and the Milwaukee road underpass. Looks like #10?9

Now that's some good trivia. I didn't know a NF was wrecked during delivery. I thought that only happened to Pace. So was it a 40 or 60 footer?

[dann]

Wasn't 1468 the one that was wrecked at Kedzie/Diversey when driver had some kind of seizure? 1482 has been out a long time, hit building I think on Chicago Ave. 4071 was at 103rd, sent to North Park, retired a month or less later.

1482 was a bus that was stolen from 103rd St Garage by someone who pretended to be a CTA driver and he actually picked up a few passengers (on Jeffery Blvd I believe) before losing control of the bus and wrecking it. I didn't realize it was damaged to the point where it had to be retired.

[ChicagoNova]

I was told it was #1466 that wrecked at Diversey/Kedzie.

I was trying to figure out this accident at Armitage and the Milwaukee road underpass. Looks like #10?9

cta-bus-ax-1.jpg

Now that's some good trivia. I didn't know a NF was wrecked during delivery. I thought that only happened to Pace. So was it a 40 or 60 footer?

It's a 40 footer.

[garmon757]

I was told it was #1466 that wrecked at Diversey/Kedzie.

I was trying to figure out this accident at Armitage and the Milwaukee road underpass. Looks like #10?9

cta-bus-ax-1.jpg

Now that's some good trivia. I didn't know a NF was wrecked during delivery. I thought that only happened to Pace. So was it a 40 or 60 footer?

I believe that was #1069 and you're right about #1466's accident on Diversey.

[Busjack]

The 7500's have been going to the Sims Metals yard at Blue Island and Wolcott. Wes's Towing has been hauling them. CTA official roster now shows only 53 stored at SS. A month ago still had 173. Not sure if this change means they have actually been junked or simply authorized for retirement pending removal. The other 43 were in fact junked last fall, including the 24 or so that had been stored at 103rd.

Grarmon, from outside the 77th yard, said that there were only about 50 left. Since 103rd's were stored behind 103, it appears that CTA didn't update the storage roster at any time until now.

[garmon757]

I don't know what kind of seats are these (#6673).