More Bus Moves

[Sam92]

Ex

9 hours ago, jajuan said:

The artic levels on 6, J14, and 26 are back up to about what they were previously before the shortage, so the maintenance issue in fact does appear to have been corrected. What city have you been living in if you think 1000s never run on the 6 or 26? North Park has the highest artic count at just under 130, and even its artics routes are never all artic at all times of operation. So that last statement you made also happens to be false. The 6 and 26 may have been overwhelmingly artic covered at key points, but they were never really all artic all day. There have always been at least one or two 1000s on the 6 at some point especially during the evening when ridership across the system starts to drop off as any given night progresses. Also the 26 has always had some 1000s in the lighter part of the rush. Plus now that it does have some form of midday service and evening hours beyond the PM rush, it has always been the case that there are 1000s on the route during those off peak times. Before the artic count at 103rd hit about the 70 mark, the 26 was in fact all 1000s. The only artic route at 103rd that's always all artic is the 192. So I think it's high time at this point, that you come out of this fantasy land and stop exaggerating things as being so much worse now down at 103rd than what the evidence presented by other members and myself show the reality to be. So bringing this discussion back on topic, if circumstantial evidence found by Busjack pans out in the direction it appears to lean from examining future winter schedules, it appears a strong possibility that 77th may be forced to take the bite and take on artics once again if Chicago isn't keeping them. 

One thing that's got me thinking but I'm guessing that's something Andre may have to answer.....  Would the impacts on scheduling be less severe if it was a mix of artics and 40ft buses as opposed to all artics as was done on 3,4 and 8 during the times those routes used them.  I mean They can't prematurely retire them just cause they aren't working out as thought or else there's gonna be federal penalties. And another thing considering all these rail projects that are at some point gonna happen such as blue line west (which might involve a similar shutdown as red line south)  and RPM those extra 100 artics still might be of use until those projects are out the way. This is definitely an interesting situation.... 

[Master58]

8 hours ago, jajuan said:

The artic levels on 6, J14, and 26 are back up to about what they were previously before the shortage, so the maintenance issue in fact does appear to have been corrected. What city have you been living in if you think 1000s never run on the 6 or 26? North Park has the highest artic count at just under 130, and even its artics routes are never all artic at all times of operation. So that last statement you made also happens to be false. The 6 and 26 may have been overwhelmingly artic covered at key points, but they were never really all artic all day. There have always been at least one or two 1000s on the 6 at some point especially during the evening when ridership across the system starts to drop off as any given night progresses. Also the 26 has always had some 1000s in the lighter part of the rush. Plus now that it does have some form of midday service and evening hours beyond the PM rush, it has always been the case that there are 1000s on the route during those off peak times. Before the artic count at 103rd hit about the 70 mark, the 26 was in fact all 1000s. The only artic route at 103rd that's always all artic is the 192. So I think it's high time at this point, that you come out of this fantasy land and stop exaggerating things as being so much worse now down at 103rd than what the evidence presented by other members and myself show the reality to be. So bringing this discussion back on topic, if circumstantial evidence found by Busjack pans out in the direction it appears to lean from examining future winter schedules, it appears a strong possibility that 77th may be forced to take the bite and take on artics once again if Chicago isn't keeping them. 

 

As of now, the J14 is back on full Artic Coverage, the 6 is seeing about two 1000s so it's almost there which still leaves the 26 still seeing more 1000's. Now before 2015 yes 26 was fully 1000's until September 2015 when 103rd acquired the 15 stimulus Artics from 77th then 26 became fully Artics. then in Late Jan 2016 when 103rd lost 4177-4181 to Chicago you started to see the 1000s return to the 26. Then when the extension happened on the 26 then about late October to November the 26 became fully 40 fts. However you would never see a 40ft on 6 or even the J14 the only time it would happen is either serve weather like a Snowstorms, Maintenance or a shortage. We have different points views and I respect that. Here's my last final point(AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION) if Chicago is giving up their Artics and if they want them on the south side they are better suited going to 103rd because of the 26 can become fully Artics at all times of the day plus you have the rehabs coming up. As for 77th if they do get them they only be used on the 3 or 4 maybe 87 but 77th doesn't have but one express route which is 2 they would only have them temporary before purging them off again as time has shown us. Artics are made to be on express route primary they rarely work on local routes as evidence is showing with 79 and now 66 going back to 40fts because of loading times which causes delays. Now people are going argue well 151 and 22 use artics and that's true and seems north park has figured it out. @jajuan Neither one of us is getting anywhere so for the sake of time lets end it at that.  

[Sam92]

12 minutes ago, Master58 said:

As of now, the J14 is back on full Artic Coverage, the 6 is seeing about two 1000s so it's almost there which still leaves the 26 still seeing more 1000's. Now before 2015 yes 26 was fully 1000's until September 2015 when 103rd acquired the 15 stimulus Artics from 77th then 26 became fully Artics. then in Late Jan 2016 when 103rd lost 4177-4181 to Chicago you started to see the 1000s return to the 26. Then when the extension happened on the 26 then about late October to November the 26 became fully 40 fts. However you would never see a 40ft on 6 or even the J14 the only time it would happen is either serve weather like a Snowstorms, Maintenance or a shortage. We have different points views and I respect that. Here's my last final point(AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION) if Chicago is giving up their Artics and if they want them on the south side they are better suited going to 103rd because of the 26 can become fully Artics at all times of the day plus you have the rehabs coming up. As for 77th if they do get them they only be used on the 3 or 4 maybe 87 but 77th doesn't have but one express route which is 2 they would only have them temporary before purging them off again as time has shown us. Artics are made to be on express route primary they rarely work on local routes as evidence is showing with 79 and now 66 going back to 40fts because of loading times which causes delays. Now people are going argue well 151 and 22 use artics and that's true and seems north park has figured it out. @jajuan Neither one of us is getting anywhere so for the sake of time lets end it at that.  

I live near the 26 and it definitely never went back to all 1000's in the rush at no point after 103rd grabbed what 77th gave up.  Only times 26 is all 1000s is the midday and after 7 and even then after the extension to stony an artic has stayed out a bit later....  So as someone who lives down here imma leave it at that.  

[Master58]

3 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I live near the 26 and it definitely never went back to all 1000's in the rush at no point after 103rd grabbed what 77th gave up.  Only times 26 is all 1000s is the midday and after 7 and even then after the extension to stony an artic has stayed out a bit later....  So as someone who lives down here imma leave it at that.  

 

You obviously didn't read my post I said after 103rd gave up the 5 artics to Chicago the 26 became mostly 1000s  I take the 26 and the last few buses are 1000's, not artics. 

[jajuan]

7 minutes ago, Master58 said:

As of now, the J14 is back on full Artic Coverage, the 6 is seeing about two 1000s so it's almost there which still leaves the 26 still seeing more 1000's. Now before 2015 yes 26 was fully 1000's until September 2015 when 103rd acquired the 15 stimulus Artics from 77th then 26 became fully Artics. then in Late Jan 2016 when 103rd lost 4177-4181 to Chicago you started to see the 1000s return to the 26. Then when the extension happened on the 26 then about late October to November the 26 became fully 40 fts. However you would never see a 40ft on 6 or even the J14 the only time it would happen is either serve weather like a Snowstorms, Maintenance or a shortage. We have different points views and I respect that. Here's my last final point(AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION) if Chicago is giving up their Artics and if they want them on the south side they are better suited going to 103rd because of the 26 can become fully Artics at all times of the day plus you have the rehabs coming up. As for 77th if they do get them they only be used on the 3 or 4 maybe 87 but 77th doesn't have but one express route which is 2 they would only have them temporary before purging them off again as time has shown us. Artics are made to be on express route primary they rarely work on local routes as evidence is showing with 79 and now 66 going back to 40fts because of loading times which causes delays. Now people are going argue well 151 and 22 use artics and that's true and seems north park has figured it out. @jajuan Neither one of us is getting anywhere so for the sake of time lets end it at that.  

103rd does not need more artics. End of story. 6 and 26 never run all artic all day, so I'll say again that statement is false. 6 and 26 are both where they normally are on artic coverage. The maintenance issue now is virtually kaput. And artics are not made primarily just for express routes. They're made for any high capacity route that a TA deems fit, either express or local. If they were only meant for express routes, then 77th never would have had them for the 79 and some extent the 3 and 4 in the first place , neither would Chicago for the 66. This arc of the discussion could have ended days ago and was pretty much done for everyone else when practically everyone showed you several times over that your perception of what the 103rd artic situation was exaggerated or otherwise incorrect. You kept coming back digging your heels in on that same incorrect observation to the point of using a number of my points word for word as evidence of that flawed point when they actually counter it. @Sam92 is probably the biggest artic fan around, and even he agreed you were exaggerating things. So I'll agree with you that this discussion is long past being due to end. I quite frankly don't get what the point was in you even wanting to keep it up this long.

 

8 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

I live near the 26 and it definitely never went back to all 1000's in the rush at no point after 103rd grabbed what 77th gave up.  Only times 26 is all 1000s is the midday and after 7 and even then after the extension to stony an artic has stayed out a bit later....  So as someone who lives down here imma leave it at that.  

Exactly one of my points, Sam.

4 minutes ago, Master58 said:

You obviously didn't read my post I said after 103rd gave up the 5 artics to Chicago the 26 became mostly 1000s  I take the 26 and the last few buses are 1000's, not artics. 

And you obviously didn't read what he said either apparently. He clearly said that route is mostly or all 1000s in the midday or in the later part of the evening. And the last few #26 buses are on the street when? In the later part of the evening. So of course you're going to more likely be riding a 1000. So the point of taking that shot at him was what exactly?

[Master58]

21 minutes ago, jajuan said:

103rd does not need more artics. End of story. 6 and 26 never run all artic all day, so I'll say again that statement is false. 6 and 26 are both where they normally are on artic coverage. The maintenance issue now is virtually kaput. And artics are not made primarily just for express routes. They're made for any high capacity route that a TA deems fit, either express or local. If they were only meant for express routes, then 77th never would have had them for the 79 and some extent the 3 and 4 in the first place , neither would Chicago for the 66. This arc of the discussion could have ended days ago and was pretty much done for everyone else when practically everyone showed you several times over that your perception of what the 103rd artic situation was exaggerated or otherwise incorrect. You kept coming back digging your heels in on that same incorrect observation to the point of using a number of my points word for word as evidence of that flawed point when they actually counter it. @Sam92 is probably the biggest artic fan around, and even he agreed you were exaggerating things. So I'll agree with you that this discussion is long past being due to end. I quite frankly don't get what the point was in you even wanting to keep it up this long.

 

Exactly one of my points, Sam.

And you obviously didn't read what he said either apparently. He clearly said that route is mostly or all 1000s in the midday or in the later part of the evening. And the last few #26 buses are on the street when? In the later part of the evening. So of course you're going to more likely be riding a 1000. So the point of taking that shot at him was what exactly?

 

@Jajaun Once again you and I have different points I've already made my stance I don't understand why you feel the need to try to convince me otherwise just give it up. I'm sorry but 77th doesn't need Artics period. 

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

@Jajaun Once again you and I have different points I've already made my stance I don't understand why you feel the need to try to convince me otherwise just give it up. I'm sorry but 77th doesn't need Artics period. 

1. Positions are positions and verifiable facts are facts.

2, From the posted advance schedules, it looks like you might be wrong on Monday. We'll have to see what's on 79.

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, Master58 said:

@Jajaun Once again you and I have different points I've already made my stance I don't understand why you feel the need to try to convince me otherwise just give it up. I'm sorry but 77th doesn't need Artics period. 

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, first of all. And just like you have an opinion, I have my own. So do dispense with trying to tell me not to voice it. And I say 103rd needs artics far less than 77th. Thinking 103rd needs 100-plus artics is the height of fantasy, and CTA isn't quick that crazy even if its management does makes silly decisions at times. The issue isn't you having an opinion. You're trying to have your own facts. And it just does not work that way.

[jajuan]

30 minutes ago, Busjack said:

1. Positions are positions and verifiable facts are facts.

2, From the posted advance schedules, it looks like you might be wrong on Monday. We'll have to see what's on 79.

Or we may find out for sure what happens with 79 on Sunday since its new schedule is effective on that date. Speaking of advanced schedules, it's odd that the 66 has a Chicago/Grand/Sacramento timepoint when Grand crosses Chicago Avenue to the east of Sacramento and Sacramento to the north of Chicago. All three don't intersect at the same point.

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, jajuan said:

it's odd that the 66 has a Chicago/Grand/Sacramento timepoint when Grand crosses Chicago Avenue to the east of Sacramento and Sacramento to the north of Chicago. All three don't intersect at the same point.

The Bus Tracker map shows Sacremento as stop 540 and Grand as stop 543. So, technically they aren't the same stop, but maybe they think the difference is de minimis.

[Master58]

23 minutes ago, jajuan said:

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, first of all. And just like you have an opinion, I have my own. So do dispense with trying to tell me not to voice it. And I say 103rd needs artics far less than 77th. Thinking 103rd needs 100-plus artics is the height of fantasy, and CTA isn't quick that crazy even if its management does makes silly decisions at times. The issue isn't you having an opinion. You're trying to have your own facts. And it just does not work that way.

 

 

Actually, you are, trying to convince me that 77th needs artics.  I've already told you for the 3rd time where I stand and I have proven my point, does 103rd need 100 artics? NO, but neither does 77th. I say split the Artics up among the other garages that have Artics. I've been done with argument between you and I.  

[Master58]

48 minutes ago, Busjack said:

1. Positions are positions and verifiable facts are facts.

2, From the posted advance schedules, it looks like you might be wrong on Monday. We'll have to see what's on 79.

 

I agree 

[Sam92]

13 minutes ago, Master58 said:

Actually, you are, trying to convince me that 77th needs artics.  I've already told you for the 3rd time where I stand and I have proven my point, does 103rd need 100 artics? NO, but neither does 77th. I say split the Artics up among the other garages that have Artics. I've been done with argument between you and I.  

If we split them between garages with artics then that mean 103rd would still get some by that logic.  And only 10-15 more puts them back at Red Line shuttle allocations

[ajm522]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

1. Positions are positions and verifiable facts are facts.

2, From the posted advance schedules, it looks like you might be wrong on Monday. We'll have to see what's on 79.

 

1 hour ago, Master58 said:

I agree 

Do you think that they might move some vehicles off of other routes to put on 79th and then possibly use artics on other routes where needed?

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Master58 said:

Actually, you are, trying to convince me that 77th needs artics.  I've already told you for the 3rd time where I stand and I have proven my point, does 103rd need 100 artics? NO, but neither does 77th. I say split the Artics up among the other garages that have Artics. I've been done with argument between you and I.  

Actually I'm quite done with this discussion with you. It's a public forum with multiple people that I'm sharing an opinion with. Last I checked the forum was named chitransit.org and not Master58. Getting quite a tad self absorbed aren't you? And who in the heck said 77th needed 100 artics? Chicago only has 40 that it's giving up to wherever. which we will find out this weekend if its a split which is reasonable, a full move to 77th, also reasonable, or all 103rd, fantasyland.  

[jajuan]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

If we split them between garages with artics then that mean 103rd would still get some by that logic.  And only 10-15 more puts them back at Red Line shuttle allocations

You're a bit off there Sam. 103rd is currently sitting at about 70. Their Red Line shuttle allocation was about 91 or so if I remember correctly. So they'd be actually need to about 20 to be at the Red Line levels. If they go past 75, they'd be going beyond spare ratio territory. It's not really much beyond 6, J14, and 26 artics can be assigned without running half empty much of the assigned route. What extra they already have that don't get used in a typical weekday rush period could easily do what school day pick ups on the Dan Ryan routes as needed, which I remember is one purpose you mentioned. while still leaving what 4 or 5 needed to do the 169's odd schedule for Hodgkins UPS shift service.

[garmon757]

@Master58 Please maintain your composure inside the forum. It's ok to dispute CTA operations by the choice of your words but anything extra isn't necessary. Try not to stress about it. @jajuan like my mom always say, "keep a cool head would ya".

[jajuan]

17 hours ago, garmon757 said:

@Master58 Please maintain your composure inside the forum. It's ok to dispute CTA operations by the choice of your words but anything extra isn't necessary. Try not to stress about it. @jajuan like my mom always say, "keep a cool head would ya".

Aye aye captain. But don't worry that particular discussion is already over for me. 

[Mr.cta85]

Get ready for bus swaps this weekend guys. Does anybody have an idea which number of buses are going where? I know buses 1470 and up used to go to my beloved 103rd garage for the winter pick but i dont know what buses will go where this time lol.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, Mr.cta85 said:

Get ready for bus swaps this weekend guys. Does anybody have an idea which number of buses are going where? I know buses 1470 and up used to go to my beloved 103rd garage for the winter pick but i dont know what buses will go where this time lol.

If we accept what has been posted above, a certain number of artics leave C and undoubtedly a certain number of 40 footers go there.

[artthouwill]

I wonder about training and retraining on equipment.   It's been a year since 77th last had artics.  Would their operators need to be retrained before operating the artics? 

There is a slim possibility of Kedzie receiving artics for use on Roosevelt.  After all,  whatever garage (s) get the Chicago artics must give up 40' buses.   Obviously 77th has the most room for them, but as we saw with the 50 00 rail cars, that could mean nothing.   Certainly the Orange Line could run 5000s, but that would mean training and retraining Brown Line operators since sometimes those lines are thru routed together. 

I guess we'll see what happens on Sunday or Monday. 

[artthouwill]

77th garage first received artics when 52nd/Cottage Grove garage closed and the 6, 14, we're transferred to 77th.   77th kept them until 1988 when 103rd garage replaced Beverly garage.   When 103rd opened,  the 6 and 14 went to 103rd with the artics.   Even though 77th covered some rush trips on both routes,  they did so with standard buses.  

77th didn't get artics again until 2003 when the LSD routes were restructured.   The new 6 went to 77th along with some artics.  Eventually,  77th wound up with 40 NABI artics.  Before the NABIS bit the dust,  77th lost 10 of them; 5 went to NP and 5 went to 103rd. 

Later in time,  77th lost the 6 and the artics to 103rd. 

When the Red line was shut down for reconstruction,  77th received a bunch of new artics for the the R routes.   Once the Red line reopened,  77th kept them for a short period.   Then they swapped with NP before eventually losing them last year. 

[ArcherRider]

4178 went to 103rd because I saw on #6 this afternoon.

[Sam92]

4106 is on the 26 and 4107 is on the 6

[cta5658]

And #4114 is on the #26