More Bus Moves

[sw4400]

Have you drove a 60ft bus sir? The 60 ft buses are easy to turn and turn like a 35 ft bus!

I wish I could say I can agree, but I can't... there was a video on YouTube of a NABI 60-LFW blocking a major street trying to make a narrow turn(one which a 40' bus could've done). Operator was unable to go forward due to parked cars or backwards due to cars as well. I'm sure some forum members remember this video and I really wish I could post it for you to see, but I think the owner or YouTube must've removed it as search results came up empty.

I can share a personal story if you're familiar with the Irving Park bus route, however... I picked the #80 headed east to Lake Shore from the HIP(it was a NOVA). When the driver turned from Forest Preserve Drive back onto Irving Park, she misjudged the turn somehow(don't know how, that's a big turning area) and hit the right mirror smack into the pole. She had to back the bus up a foot or two and complete the turn, then fix and adjust the mirror again when she got to Irving Park and Harlem.

A 35' bus is much easier to turn however than a 60' bus. You have to pull out more than a 35' or 40' bus would into the other lane of the street(possibly into the oncoming lane, depending on street layout) just to make a right turn. If you don't, and there are parked cars on that corner, be prepared to stop your bus and call control and CPD, you're going to have a lot of angry car owners.

[Busjack]

Have you drove a 60ft bus sir? ...

I wish I could say I can agree, but I can't...

Unless there is something you didn't disclose, I thought the answer was no.

Of course, I thought that pace2322 was working at Pace, but apparently that changed. :lol:

[pace2322]

That doesn't sound too good. You didn't say if you were referring to the 4000s or 4300s, but, either way, a dead 1-1/2 year old or new bus sounds like something is wrong.

About 7 to 9 4000s all of them with the jump add

[sw4400]

Come look in the dead bays and see all the jumps buses with dead motors. Ie we need more 60 ft buses if you want more on the 26!

Ok, the buses might be out of service temporarily for repairs(the 4000-Series buses are 4-5 years old with probably 250,000-300,000 miles now, so down time to repair components is possible now). You're making it sound like they're out of service indefinately awaiting scrapping or something. Some of those buses could be an easy fix... a few hours for repair and they're back on the road again.

[sw4400]

About 7 to 9 4000s all of them with the jump add

That's just coincidence, pace2322. Jump ad or not, they do break down from time to time. I remember waiting for a Lincoln bus once when it existed and got #14xx(a 2007 model, I believe), which was the bus that was supposed to follow the bus I was supposed to get(#1974-a 2008/09 model) was marked as delayed and ultimately disappeared from the tracker. The operator of the bus that I got told me that it broke down.

[BusHunter]

I wish I could say I can agree, but I can't... there was a video on YouTube of a NABI 60-LFW blocking a major street trying to make a narrow turn(one which a 40' bus could've done). Operator was unable to go forward due to parked cars or backwards due to cars as well. I'm sure some forum members remember this video and I really wish I could post it for you to see, but I think the owner or YouTube must've removed it as search results came up empty.

I can share a personal story if you're familiar with the Irving Park bus route, however... I picked the #80 headed east to Lake Shore from the HIP(it was a NOVA). When the driver turned from Forest Preserve Drive back onto Irving Park, she misjudged the turn somehow(don't know how, that's a big turning area) and hit the right mirror smack into the pole. She had to back the bus up a foot or two and complete the turn, then fix and adjust the mirror again when she got to Irving Park and Harlem.

A 35' bus is much easier to turn however than a 60' bus. You have to pull out more than a 35' or 40' bus would into the other lane of the street(possibly into the oncoming lane, depending on street layout) just to make a right turn. If you don't, and there are parked cars on that corner, be prepared to stop your bus and call control and CPD, you're going to have a lot of angry car owners.

You should see the turn at Addison/Neva. They just had an accident over there a couple weeks ago. A #4000 sideswiped a parked car. They have at least 2 accidents a year there. Some operators will even drive their buses to Cumberland to avoid that turn. With the turning radius being wider on the #4300's that may be a very difficult turn now.

Some of the #26 turns are tight, if you don't believe me just check google maps. 83rd is a narrow street and South Shore is narrow, so is it going to be easy to turn a #4300 there? The main area the operator I talked with was around 83rd/Exchange. There's a 135 degree turn there. 83rd is narrow, which would mean with a #4300 you would most likely have to go in opposing traffic to make that turn. I think these buses are going to be for the #X14 and #6 exclusively. Then they may move on. BTW, has anyone seen a #4300 on the #26 yet?

[Busjack]

That's just coincidence, pace2322. ...

I sort of doubt that. CTA keeps metrics on Average Daily Percent of Bus Fleet Unavailable for Service and Miles Between Reported Bus Service Disruptions Due to Equipment. If normal course is that comparatively new buses* break down all the time, those numbers would be atrocious.

_________

*The Buses page says that deliveries started in Oct. 2008, so these (not being the first batch, which went to Kedzie) would be at most 4 years old.

[artthouwill]

Here's an interesting video... passenger appearantly had someone else's CTA transit I.D and wouldn't leave the bus without getting it back and refused to let the Bus Operator continue with it. So operator physically forces him away from the bus, and the rest I'll let you see here

It would appear that this bus driver could be charged with assault IF he initiated physical contact first. If passenger refused to get off bus, a call to the police should've sufficed. The driver did have a right to confiscate someone else's transit card (my guess it was a senior's free or reduced RTA card). This sort of thing (not the assault) happens all the time on CTA and Pace. I recently witnessed a young lady get a card she was trying to use (that wasn't hers) confiscated. She was able to ride after she reluctantly paid a fare, though she vehemently argued that she bought her card recently. This happened on a Pace bus. IMO, at least this driver didn't give the passenger an uppercut. Or maybe the driver was trying to avoid getting slapped in the face like this one did:

[ChicagoNova]

Spotted 4063 on 147 today.

[pace2322]

I sort of doubt that. CTA keeps metrics on Average Daily Percent of Bus Fleet Unavailable for Service and Miles Between Reported Bus Service Disruptions Due to Equipment. If normal course is that comparatively new buses* break down all the time, those numbers would be atrocious.

_________

*The Buses page says that deliveries started in Oct. 2008, so these (not being the first batch, which went to Kedzie) would be at most 4 years old.

Hey what do i know beside i see them when i work, Also three of then are more just a little fix 4097 been out of service for three weeks now and still is half apart.

[Sam92]

Hey what do i know beside i see them when i work, Also three of then are more just a little fix 4097 been out of service for three weeks now and still is half apart.

Don't tell me we have another NABI fiasco on our hands with the 4000's.

[sw4400]

Don't tell me we have another NABI fiasco on our hands with the 4000's.

I wouldn't put too much stock in what was mentioned. The bus mentioned(#4097) could be apart for another reason... maybe just getting a new hubner joint or some other articulated component. That is presuming pace2322 is referring to the actual bus being split in half. "Half apart" could mean maybe the engine is removed for a reason. His quote earier in this thread...

Come look in the dead bays and see all the jumps buses with dead motors...

Nothing mentioned here about any bus split in half, just buses with "disabled" motors. I think photographic evidence of #4097 in two would be required here.

[jajuan]

I'm not sure anyone noticed, but this guy kept sticking his arm in between the bus doors as the driver was closing the doors and trying to leave the stop. In that regard, this guy was risking harm not only to himself but to those on board the bus. So it brings into question, how courteous is an operator expected to remain when you have a moron constantly sticking his arm in between the doors as the doors close, and you're trying to get your bus on its way? Maybe the operator shouldn't have gotten physical. That part can be granted, but in the context of having someone continually sticking their arm between the front doors as you're closing them and trying to pull the bus away that hardly justifies classifying the operator as a thug. It seems we're again a bit too free with throwing that word around without examining the full context of a situation.

[jajuan]

Who says NP and Kedzie won't get any #4300's? Now if the #6 went back to 77th, I'd say they may get #4300's. I personally think their getting #4000's. 103rd may be getting #4300's now, but they don't need more than what the #J14 and #6 can handle. I'm told they don't like using artics on the #26 because of some of the turns on the south side. So that puts no more than 50 something for 103rd and that's if they plan on removing wraps they just put on. The only argument that is valid for putting #4300's at 77th is for the Dan Ryan closure. It all depends how badly they feel they need them for that.

I guess you didn't take note of my saying IF there were enough now. But before I see ANY 4300s at either Kedzie or NP, they'd better be making plans to shift some 4000s at both out much like they're doing with 103rd as neither of those two needs any further artics. And even if 77th didn't have the 6, it could probably make good use of artics on the 3,4 and the 79 along with maybe the 2 or 87. I'd be perfectly fine with seeing what's left of the 4300s go there with none for NP or Kedzie as long as whoever is in charge of assigning buses to the garages got serious with realizing Kedzie and NP (NP especially) don't need more artics. From what I've been able to see with the routes that use artics between those two, the crowd reduction plan does seem to have worked to some degree. With this past week being the true test of this plan as most people should have been back from holiday vacations now, I've noticed that the 147 for instance function on one of its heavier segments with artics operating with maybe all seats filled but a lot fewer standees. That would probably explain the route operating at least one or two 40 foot bus runs all day every weekday since the week of December 16th. Same for the 146 with that route using about four 40 footers (a lot of the time on the short run trips) in addition to artics each weekday. Both of those routes usually restricted to rare rush hour instances and later in the evening. I've actually been seeing 136 run with a few close to empty artics at what should be busy points, so it makes me wonder if a few more trips should be done with 40 footers. Of course, it's a tricky thing considering those same trips that had empty artics might run full the very next day. And on the 22 point that Busjack raised, that route still so far follows running mostly or all artic during late evening and overnight hours, weekday morning rush and weekends. In fact the 40 footers have begun taking over coverage earlier in the morning than they previously had been on weekdays. Also Bushunter I don't know if the explanation given to you about artic usage on the 26 makes much sense given the 6 has about the same number of turns as 26, maybe one or two more, and it's been an artic heavy route after its Jackson Park conversion since shortly before 103rd took back coverage from 77th. And if its a matter of sharpness of turns, it still doesn't hold up much since the only really sharp turn on 26 is that at 83rd and Exchange. The rest are the same tightness or smoother than on the 6.

[Busjack]

Hey what do i know beside i see them when i work, Also three of then are more just a little fix 4097 been out of service for three weeks now and still is half apart.

I think you missed to whom I was replying, which wasn't you.

The only thing I can say is that while you have always been critical of bus maintenance, at least you are in the garage and I am not.

[Busjack]

It would appear that this bus driver could be charged with assault IF he initiated physical contact first

And if the person is reading here, bring a civil action against the CTA for assault.

...That part can be granted, but in the context of having someone continually sticking their arm between the front doors as you're closing them and trying to pull the bus away that hardly justifies classifying the operator as a thug. It seems we're again a bit too free with throwing that word around without examining the full context of a situation.

I noted that the clip was lacking context.

However, as art implies, times change, and the only reason that would justify the driver assaulting the passenger (and one becomes a passenger when reaching the bus stop--not delayed until the driver accepts your fare) is if the passenger assaulted him first, not even if the passenger stuck his arm in the door. Proper protocol is to call either the police or a supervisor. The last I heard, CTA buses still had Orbital emergency communications systems in them.

And, again, you have two dummies who should have realized that they were being recorded by the holder of the cell phone, and undoubtedly the bus security camera.

So, at least I will stand on that it was not professional and courteous.

[jajuan]

And if the person is reading here, bring a civil action against the CTA for assault.

I noted that the clip was lacking context.

However, as art implies, times change, and the only reason that would justify the driver assaulting the passenger (and one becomes a passenger when reaching the bus stop--not delayed until the driver accepts your fare) is if the passenger assaulted him first, not even if the passenger stuck his arm in the door. Proper protocol is to call either the police or a supervisor. The last I heard, CTA buses still had Orbital emergency communications systems in them.

And, again, you have two dummies who should have realized that they were being recorded by the holder of the cell phone, and undoubtedly the bus security camera.

So, at least I will stand on that it was not professional and courteous.

As I said, the point can be granted that the operator shouldn't have gotten physical and some form of discipline from management might be warranted for going against the protocol. But I still question how professional and courteous an operator is expected to remain from a human nature standpoint when you got an idiot sticking his arm between the doors as the doors close and the bus starts to move and regardless of someone taking time to use his cellphone to record stupidity in action over instead using the phone to summon police in lieu of the operator not doing so.

[mkohut]

Since there not camera shy.They shouldn't have a problem being on camera in Cook County Court.

[ChicagoNova]

Spotted 4061 on 147.

[cta5658]

I guess you didn't take note of my saying IF there were enough now. But before I see ANY 4300s at either Kedzie or NP, they'd better be making plans to shift some 4000s at both out much like they're doing with 103rd as neither of those two needs any further artics. And even if 77th didn't have the 6, it could probably make good use of artics on the 3,4 and the 79 along with maybe the 2 or 87. I'd be perfectly fine with seeing what's left of the 4300s go there with none for NP or Kedzie as long as whoever is in charge of assigning buses to the garages got serious with realizing Kedzie and NP (NP especially) don't need more artics. From what I've been able to see with the routes that use artics between those two, the crowd reduction plan does seem to have worked to some degree. With this past week being the true test of this plan as most people should have been back from holiday vacations now, I've noticed that the 147 for instance function on one of its heavier segments with artics operating with maybe all seats filled but a lot fewer standees. That would probably explain the route operating at least one or two 40 foot bus runs all day every weekday since the week of December 16th. Same for the 146 with that route using about four 40 footers (a lot of the time on the short run trips) in addition to artics each weekday. Both of those routes usually restricted to rare rush hour instances and later in the evening. I've actually been seeing 136 run with a few close to empty artics at what should be busy points, so it makes me wonder if a few more trips should be done with 40 footers. Of course, it's a tricky thing considering those same trips that had empty artics might run full the very next day. And on the 22 point that Busjack raised, that route still so far follows running mostly or all artic during late evening and overnight hours, weekday morning rush and weekends. In fact the 40 footers have begun taking over coverage earlier in the morning than they previously had been on weekdays. Also Bushunter I don't know if the explanation given to you about artic usage on the 26 makes much sense given the 6 has about the same number of turns as 26, maybe one or two more, and it's been an artic heavy route after its Jackson Park conversion since shortly before 103rd took back coverage from 77th. And if its a matter of sharpness of turns, it still doesn't hold up much since the only really sharp turn on 26 is that at 83rd and Exchange. The rest are the same tightness or smoother than on the 6.

Here's my suggestion on how 103rd can put Artics on the #26, reroute the route by turning on 79th from south shore, left turn on exchange and continue down the normal route

[jajuan]

Spotted 4061 on 147.

As mentioned by others earlier today. It's stint at Kedzie was definitely short as it was just last week others mentioned that it was transferred there from 103rd.

[jajuan]

Here's my suggestion on how 103rd can put Artics on the #26, reroute the route by turning on 79th from south shore, left turn on exchange and continue down the normal route

Question is does the ridership warrant it? It seems it was discovered the route works fine with only a few buses being artics with the rest of the trips being done by 1000s.

[cta5658]

Question is does the ridership warrant it? It seems it was discovered the route works fine with only a few buses being artics with the rest of the trips being done by 1000s.

that's what i meant, only if ridership warrants it.

[jajuan]

Since there not camera shy.They shouldn't have a problem being on camera in Cook County Court.

Given that this was from a cell phone camera, I doubt either of them thought about or even knew that they were on camera. (Not one from a phone anyway)

[BusHunter]

I guess you didn't take note of my saying IF there were enough now. But before I see ANY 4300s at either Kedzie or NP, they'd better be making plans to shift some 4000s at both out much like they're doing with 103rd as neither of those two needs any further artics.

Of course, I agree it makes no sense to add more artics there, but someone is going to have to add artics, unless you plan on sending 80 artics to 77th. That's the pickle there in not having the other garages artic capable. In time when that happens probably some of the surplus will leave those garages.