More New Flyers

[sw4400]

I don't recall anything about a third door, except maybe the CTA was mulling the idea on the TBD order of buses(mixed 40' and 60' models) when a manufacturer is announced, though I put my money on New Flyer or NOVA Bus for this order... who else could do this otherwise?

On another note, start watching for the two New Flyer Xcelsior models that should be arriving sometime in early 2013 for testing. These are the two all-electric buses the CTA ordered for a trial period of I would speculate no more than two years, if that. Then they'll either be returned to New Flyer or meet the same fate as the 5900's back in 1999-2000.

[ChicagoNova]

It was only an option in the request for proposals for the next 50-150 articulated buses, as part of the 450-600 bus requisition.

It seems fairly clear that, for the most part, CTA was getting what Seattle had, with respect to this order based on assigned Seattle options.

So with this going on, I guess I'd have no other option but to wait hand & foot to know what the other 50-150 artics are going to look like or what bus manufacturer is going to deliver them as well as the 40 footers.

[sw4400]

That's weird that they'd have 16 and not put them in service or even send them to the assigning garage yet. I wonder if there's a problem with the buses. I know those buses are loaded with technology, there supposed to have New Flyer Connect, which allows New Flyer a connection to the bus. I still don't know if they have onboard bustracker signs. I've seen buses that have this mounted from the ceiling, slightly smaller than CTA newest train tracker signs. (there was a picture on wikipedia) I don't know if they can be seen from the outside of the bus.

I think they're waiting on the D60LFR's to start being delivered.

[cta5658]

I think they're waiting on the D60LFR's to start being delivered.

When do you think the first D60LFR's will arrive?

[Busjack]

That's weird that they'd have 16 and not put them in service or even send them to the assigning garage yet....

Maybe people are getting a bit antsy. Going back the sighting of some on the expressway, apparently being delivered, was Nov. 27. That's less than a week ago.

[sw4400]

When do you think the first D60LFR's will arrive?

Well we have 16 of 33 DE60LFR's currently, according to your post here. I figure New Flyer will send the last 17 over the next four to six weeks, completing the DE60LFR portion of the order. The bigger portion of the order, the 67 D60LFR's will start to come in sometime in January or February. Once we get a few of the D60LFR's, the CTA will most likely do their press conference introducing the buses to the public and starting them in revenue service.

[rl12383]

As an Aside to this discussion. I just saw (noon 12/4) a nova articulate bus headed west on Madison right by Western. It did not seem to have the CTA paint scheme. Maybe headed to Chicago for a demostration???? not sure.

[BusHunter]

Maybe people are getting a bit antsy. Going back the sighting of some on the expressway, apparently being delivered, was Nov. 27. That's less than a week ago.

First official sighting was on Nov 8th, almost a month ago. These buses remind me of the #5000's, CTA gets them and then they sit until they decide to use them. Maybe this is the new way of doing business.

[New Flyer]

only 5 of the 4300's are left on the front fence at 77th

[BusHunter]

only 5 of the 4300's are left on the front fence at 77th

Good maybe we'll finally see them in service soon. (maybe Dec 16th)

[sw4400]

only 5 of the 4300's are left on the front fence at 77th

Well presuming 16 are here as indicated earlier in this post, 11 of the 4300's are either in an indoor facility, at another garage or garages, or off CTA property for equipment installation(e.g Bus & Truck, etc...)

[geneking7320]

Sunday I spoke with a friend who drives out of 77th/Garage.

He said they're expecting new buses in January. In the context of this thread maybe that means they will be in service next month. He didn't say the expected count of 40footers vs 60footers.

Gene King

[See Tea Eh]

Drivers would be the last to know about any planned fleet developments.

[BusHunter]

Sunday I spoke with a friend who drives out of 77th/Garage.

He said they're expecting new buses in January. In the context of this thread maybe that means they will be in service next month. He didn't say the expected count of 40footers vs 60footers.

Gene King

Either that or the delivery shifts to there by then. 103rd is supposed to be getting the first round (sounds like 25 buses if they going to 4 garages, maybe enough to go with what is wrapped for J14) Maybe 77th is getting the second round.

[sw4400]

Sunday I spoke with a friend who drives out of 77th/Garage.

He said they're expecting new buses in January. In the context of this thread maybe that means they will be in service next month...

That is presuming there is a next month... 12/21/12 is the supposed end of the world.

[cta5658]

That is presuming there is a next month... 12/21/12 is the supposed end of the world.

not to be off topic, but the mayans never predicted the end

[sw4400]

Either that or the delivery shifts to there by then. 103rd is supposed to be getting the first round (sounds like 25 buses if they going to 4 garages, maybe enough to go with what is wrapped for J14) Maybe 77th is getting the second round.

These 100 DE60LFR's will probably be split somehow between North Park, Kedzie, 77th and 103rd. How remains to be seen... evenly with 25/garage or some uneven split.

[sw4400]

I wonder if the first D60LFR's will come in shortly after January 1st, and when will the two XE40's will come in for testing, what garage they'll be tested out of and what route(s) they'll be put on.

[jajuan]

not to be off topic, but the mayans never predicted the end

And to back up your point is this even the place to go into odd end of the world conspiracies?

[jajuan]

These 100 DE60LFR's will probably be split somehow between North Park, Kedzie, 77th and 103rd. How remains to be seen... evenly with 25/garage or some uneven split.

I'll just make the point I made before in that does North Park and Kedzie even need more artics when North Park already has 100 assigned along with the loss of 145 from both this weekend and the reworking of 148 in a way that doesn't guarantee Kedzie keeps any runs or that it'll keep very many artics? And I keep making that point with 148 because outside of operating on Clarendon instead of Marine Drive between Lawrence and Irving Park and not operating to the Berwyn Red Line, this route will essentially be what 144 is currently. Anyone really think that routing will create more riders to the degree of needing artics when Marine has high rises as opposed to smaller residential apartment buildings on Clarendon? 135 at least has the extra one mile stretch of Inner Drive high rises to pass before hitting the Outer Drive at Belmont to get the loads that more artics are a better option than a standard 40 footer.

[redline92]

These 100 DE60LFR's will probably be split somehow between North Park, Kedzie, 77th and 103rd. How remains to be seen... evenly with 25/garage or some uneven split.

Do you have any pictures of DE60LFR from 77th Garage?

[sw4400]

I'll just make the point I made before in that does North Park and Kedzie even need more artics when North Park already has 100 assigned along with the loss of 145 from both this weekend and the reworking of 148 in a way that doesn't guarantee Kedzie keeps any runs or that it'll keep very many artics? And I keep making that point with 148 because outside of operating on Clarendon instead of Marine Drive between Lawrence and Irving Park and not operating to the Berwyn Red Line, this route will essentially be what 144 is currently. Anyone really think that routing will create more riders to the degree of needing artics when Marine has high rises as opposed to smaller residential apartment buildings on Clarendon? 135 at least has the extra one mile stretch of Inner Drive high rises to pass before hitting the Outer Drive at Belmont to get the loads that more artics are a better option than a standard 40 footer.

152 comes to a mind as a reason for more artics. Lane Tech, Cubs games, etc... are one reason. We don't know who's getting Belmont, but this route needs artics, not additional 40' buses that'll be overcrowded when they hit the Kimball Blue Line Subway.

[BusHunter]

I'll just make the point I made before in that does North Park and Kedzie even need more artics when North Park already has 100 assigned along with the loss of 145 from both this weekend and the reworking of 148 in a way that doesn't guarantee Kedzie keeps any runs or that it'll keep very many artics? And I keep making that point with 148 because outside of operating on Clarendon instead of Marine Drive between Lawrence and Irving Park and not operating to the Berwyn Red Line, this route will essentially be what 144 is currently. Anyone really think that routing will create more riders to the degree of needing artics when Marine has high rises as opposed to smaller residential apartment buildings on Clarendon? 135 at least has the extra one mile stretch of Inner Drive high rises to pass before hitting the Outer Drive at Belmont to get the loads that more artics are a better option than a standard 40 footer.

Well Kedzie had 30 artics back in the #7300's era just to run the #156 service. Now they run #148's and the soon to be axed #145 and they have plenty of routes that could use artics like the #12. If they don't have LSD routes to run artics on, they'll just run them on the local service. (but they may be sharing #146's, #148's with North Park now because those routes will be in high demand post 12/16) Looks to me like the game plan as far as deliveries may be to deliver new buses to the four garages previously mentioned and transfer what they have to places like 74th and chicago. It would make sense to get those garages a starter set of a low amount of artics (25 or below) to see how they handle them. Then they can expand on this idea with the next order. 77th will just gain buses as well as one of the other four (maybe North Park or 103rd if there worried about the Ryan shutdown) With all the frequency cutting and route cutting alot of routes need bigger buses. The way things are going CTA is going to need more and more of these buses. These will help out alot more than any decrowding plan! :o

[jajuan]

Well Kedzie had 30 artics back in the #7300's era just to run the #156 service. Now they run #148's and the soon to be axed #145 and they have plenty of routes that could use artics like the #12. If they don't have LSD routes to run artics on, they'll just run them on the local service. (but they may be sharing #146's, #148's with North Park now because those routes will be in high demand post 12/16) Looks to me like the game plan as far as deliveries may be to deliver new buses to the four garages previously mentioned and transfer what they have to places like 74th and chicago. It would make sense to get those garages a starter set of a low amount of artics (25 or below) to see how they handle them. Then they can expand on this idea with the next order. 77th will just gain buses as well as one of the other four (maybe North Park or 103rd if there worried about the Ryan shutdown) With all the frequency cutting and route cutting alot of routes need bigger buses. The way things are going CTA is going to need more and more of these buses. These will help out alot more than any decrowding plan!

While you got route cutting and frequency reductions in one area, you got additions to both elsewhere so theoretically that side of things changes nothing. As for the 12 since that's your example, a lot of the weekday ridership is heavier mostly east of Kedzie because of UIC and from the advanced schedule that seems to be where they're beefing up the service (5 min intervals east of Kedzie in the morning rush for example). Artics come into play primarily on the weekends with this route because Kedzie's other current routes are in operation only on the weekdays in addition to weekend headways are longer on the weekends. With respect to 146 and 148, there is no guarantee Kedzie picks up any on 146 or keep any on 148. Based on Busjack's mention of 146 taking on the Grace short turns now part of 145's schedule along with doing short runs that start or end at State/Roosevelt and some starting at Randolph, with 145 gone that is possibly already covered by freed up artics. As for sw's mention of the 152 especially in regard to Lane Tech, North Park is already doing that with current artics on hand so that doesn't explain a need to increase past the current number that they have. So far these are all pulling at strings to hold on artics already on those two's rosters rather than justifications for INCREASING the numbers which is the question I posed. Why would either need MORE? As you get other garages artic capable why try to keep artics concentrated and crammed at North Park, Kedzie and to some degree 103rd? with up to 400 plus artics set to be on hand when all is said and done you can't do it. That's especially when you consider the point Busjack and some others had been making that 77th in particular has a 400 plus bus capacity.

[MetroShadow]

Think about whichever route or routes that are interlined out of NP, those will be the cases to watch (I.e. 148's in the morning will likely be 22's later; 134's to 125's and so on...). Those increased service routes (even with artics) will be thrown into blocks anyway.

It would make sense where some of these routes will be blocked without interlining, or you'll see some funky ones where artics might be in play (some 66 short turns at Kedzie/Troy may be K runs).

And 77 is still completely out of FG, so any shot of artics might be less than 10%?