5000-series - Updates

[busfan2847]

What cars did they use on the IRM special yesterday?

2270+2269+2285+2286+2219+2220 seen rounding the curve at Sheridan with a "Wilson Last Stop" headboard.

[Mr.cta85]

Hey has anybody seen the 5000 series lately?? I thought they were suppose to be revenue testing the trains in April starting on the red line... I figured somebody would have seen them by now. I ride the Dan Ryan express way everyday and I look out for them but still haven't seen them yet.

[BusHunter]

Hey has anybody seen the 5000 series lately?? I thought they were suppose to be revenue testing the trains in April starting on the red line... I figured somebody would have seen them by now. I ride the Dan Ryan express way everyday and I look out for them but still haven't seen them yet.

They were on the first and second tracks outside Skokie Shops yesterday coupled in two four car sets one on the first track one on the second with the CTA logo car #5009 on the second track in front of one four car set standing alone as a two car set. I just noticed myself both ends of that car has the logo. I wonder why they did that? They could've put one on another end and had both ends of the train with this when it ran in service. Almost like the Maxwell House wrap they had years ago on the blue line with the ends wrapped. On Subchat there was chatter about them having problems with the leveler and few other mechanical issues. They wanted to put those out since January 22nd in revenue service and have been canceling due to these issues and that the cars were supposed to debut the first week of April this time and run 24/7 on the Red. We're now in the second week of April. I'll see if I can give you guys a link to the story.

[Busjack]

An inference from a post in the CTA Green section is that the production 5000s aren't entering service until 2011.

[Mr.cta85]

2011?? Wow cta has been trying to get new cars since technically 2002 and it's 8yrs later will they ever be put in service?? Hopefully they are at least in the delivering process of the 5000 series.

[Busjack]

Hopefully they are at least in the delivering process of the 5000 series.

Well, the first 10 were delivered. The question is whether they have to go through the full year of testing before the go ahead is given to start the other 396. If so, 2011 would make sense.

As usual, though, I am not going to psychoanalyze Rodriguez.

[busfan2847]

Well, the first 10 were delivered. The question is whether they have to go through the full year of testing before the go ahead is given to start the other 396. If so, 2011 would make sense.

As usual, though, I am not going to psychoanalyze Rodriguez.

The pre-production 10 cars will enter service next week according to the Tribune.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/04/smoother-more-crowded-rides-cta-to-put-new-rail-cars-into-service.html

[Busjack]

The pre-production 10 cars will enter service next week according to the Tribune.

http://www.chicagobr...to-service.html

Thanks. As usual, Hilkevitch does his fine job of paraphrasing the CTA Press Release.

I knew he was getting a bit over his skis when he had the comment that these were capable of doing 70 mph but would be limited to 55. That is the same thing that was said about the 2200s, which these cars are replacing, and hence not news.

The two parts of the Press Release that are of significance to prior posters here are:

The 5000-series prototypes – which have been undergoing testing by CTA engineers and representatives from the manufacturer for the last several months – will begin service on the Red Line and then will be tested on all eight rail lines through at least the end of the year. This in-service testing is the next step in the agency's evaluation of the 10 rail car prototypes to determine how they perform when operating in the conditions that CTA's rail fleet is subject to throughout the year. The cars must successfully complete testing before the CTA will finalize the order of the remaining 396 rail cars. (emphasis added)

It sort of sounds like nothing happens on the other 396 until the end of the year, which would seem to make the production models go into service in late 2011.

[chitowndude84]

NBC5 just ran a story on the 5000's (Cars 5009/5010 were shown) and a interior shot featured the dreaded isle facing interior THIS IS NOT NY CITY !!! And they were not like the ones on the NF 4150+ buses.Inside the operator cab was some type of touch screen control panel.And the topper was the sign was programed for 95TH,So it's the Red line as the first test line ??

[Busjack]

So it's the Red line as the first test line ??

Read a couple of posts above.

[geneking7320]

NBC5 just ran a story on the 5000's (Cars 5009/5010 were shown) and a interior shot featured the dreaded isle facing interior THIS IS NOT NY CITY !!! And they were not like the ones on the NF 4150+ buses.Inside the operator cab was some type of touch screen control panel.And the topper was the sign was programed for 95TH,So it's the Red line as the first test line ??

In today's Tribune article Paul Fish (CTA VP budget and capital finance) told the CTA board "If we don't like it, we can do a change order".

My question is: if the public protests enough will the CTA indeed change the specs to get rid of the "bowling alley" seats?

[BusHunter]

Thanks. As usual, Hilkevitch does his fine job of paraphrasing the CTA Press Release.

I knew he was getting a bit over his skis when he had the comment that these were capable of doing 70 mph but would be limited to 55. That is the same thing that was said about the 2200s, which these cars are replacing, and hence not news.

The two parts of the Press Release that are of significance to prior posters here are:

It sort of sounds like nothing happens on the other 396 until the end of the year, which would seem to make the production models go into service in late 2011.

It's my understanding when permission is granted to proceed on the 396 at the end of 2010, work will ramp up to productions of about a dozen cars a month. This should be starting early 2011. All 396 should be received by the end of 2013. If you do the math involved it should take around 35 months to deliver the order. Roughly throughout the years of 2011- 2013 we should be seeing these 12 cars a month showing up. Btw, there are some great pictures of the #5000's today on the meet the #5000's page of CTA's website. They show some pictures of the new interior rail lines signs ( the lights really do look like a washing machine) as well as a few other interior looks we haven't seen so far. With the test cars starting on the red it would appear historically that that's where they want the cars to go first. I was thinking yesterday if they fill the entire 706 order, that would virtually replace every car on the red and blue lines. If you kept all #3200's in place, it would leave you with a pretty modern system, with most of the major lines covered by not so ancient equipment. With the rail extensions coming on line by 2016, i'm not so sure initially the cars would be needed for that service. It all depends if that suddenly hits the fast track. (An improving economy would really help that out)

[Busjack]

In today's Tribune article Paul Fish (CTA VP budget and capital finance) told the CTA board "If we don't like it, we can do a change order".

My question is: if the public protests enough will the CTA indeed change the specs to get rid of the "bowling alley" seats?

The operative word in the quote is "we," not the public.*

In that Huberman's proposed design changes were shot down, even though despite what Hilkevitch once said, they are not going to be the cause of the production order being delayed, I really doubt that the CTA is going to listen to the public on something like this. I'm sure their response will be to the effect of "be glad we aren't instituting the max standee car throughout the system."

For that matter, CTA still hasn't indicated that it would use multicolor LED signs, even though everyone seems to have pointed out that not doing so makes no sense.

Nothing yet seems to indicate that CTA will do meaningful customers research or surveys.

CTA can prove me wrong, but I'm not betting on it.

____________

Update: The full paragraph was:

"We will gauge customer reaction" to the change, Paul Fish, the CTA's vice president of budget and capital finance, told the transit agency's board on Wednesday. "If we don't like it, we can do a change order."

I don't construe "we" to mean "If customer reaction is adverse," especially in light of Rodriguez's comment about the passengers are accustomed to a lot.

[BusHunter]

In today's Tribune article Paul Fish (CTA VP budget and capital finance) told the CTA board "If we don't like it, we can do a change order".

My question is: if the public protests enough will the CTA indeed change the specs to get rid of the "bowling alley" seats?

Probably not, even if they did they would have to change it by production time (end of 2010) and the ten prototypes would probably stay as is. Once anything is built it's pretty final. Unfortunatly I think were going to seeing all longitudinal seating on CTA trains and buses from now on. It seems to be the new way of life. With the CTA cuts from Feb, I hate to admit it but they look like they could use those kinds of buses more often if they had more. Customers having trouble getting on and off the bus do slow it down in heavy areas of the route. One thing we don't need now with reduced intervals is bus bunching.

[dauber]

It would seem to me that merely complaining isn't going to do anything. If people truly want CTA to do away with anything, the best way would be to ACT and demonstrate something being a bad idea. Afraid of longitudinal seating attracting sleeping panhandlers? Well, do it yourself -- especially if there's CTA personnel onboard! If everybody does stuff like this, maybe...just maybe...it'll send the message.

[Guest]

I took a look at the photo gallery of the 5000s, I really like the cars. I think these are the best looking subway cars since the 6000s. I know the "bowling alley" type seating might upset a few people. I actually like it, being a NYC Subway fan. The cars kind of remind of the R32 subway cars in NYC with the bowling alley seating, fluted sides, they look really cool! Im looking forward to getting my first ride on them when they operate on the Blue Line. Although I do like it, I hope CTA dosent plan on placing those large CTA graphics on all the cars. But Im excited about them. Cant wait to ride!

[Busjack]

Don't know which gallery you meant,* but the one embedded in the CTA Tattler looks pretty comprehensive.

*Update: I reread BusHunter's message and saw the reference to the CTA homepage. I like the one the Tattler got better, though.

[sw4400]

Wait until these test cars come to the Brown and Purple Lines... confusion city!!!

1-2 weeks on Brown heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

1-2 weeks on Purple heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

It's for this reason, more than any other, that the LED displays should either be colored according to the rail line, or have a colored LED background.

[chgofan78]

Wait until these test cars come to the Brown and Purple Lines... confusion city!!!

1-2 weeks on Brown heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

1-2 weeks on Purple heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

It's for this reason, more than any other, that the LED displays should either be colored according to the rail line, or have a colored LED background.

Knowing CTA they will probably hang a colored board on the front of the train so people will know which route the train belongs to similar to the way the front door is painted green on 2499-2500 on the Green Line. The only problem is what happens if you miss seeing the front of the train or the announcements are not working or activated?

[chitowndude84]

Wait until these test cars come to the Brown and Purple Lines... confusion city!!!

1-2 weeks on Brown heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

1-2 weeks on Purple heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

It's for this reason, more than any other, that the LED displays should either be colored according to the rail line, or have a colored LED background.

umm......Since it's a LED dest sign like the buses,Would it not "Alternate flash" "Loop" -flash-"brown" then possibly flash-"line" ?????

[chitowndude84]

Read a couple of posts above.

Oh D'OH

[MVTArider]

Don't know which gallery you meant,* but the one embedded in the CTA Tattler looks pretty comprehensive.

Pretty nice looking. I like the forward/backward seating setup better but this setup isn't bad. At least they aren't those horrible Aries 4MA seats like our LRT cars have, so painful to sit in... The aisle facing seat setup is also a lot nicer than the current craze of sets of seats facing each other.

[artthouwill]

Wait until these test cars come to the Brown and Purple Lines... confusion city!!!

1-2 weeks on Brown heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

1-2 weeks on Purple heading south on local tracks marked "Loop"

It's for this reason, more than any other, that the LED displays should either be colored according to the rail line, or have a colored LED background.

Totally agree. However, there are also electronic signs inside the train that will help, they are above the door at the end of the car that is closest to its married partner car. Also the rail maps over the service doors are supposed to be electric and show where the train is on a given route. So if you get on a 5000 series headed downtown at Wellington, you should be able to look at the map and tell which line you are on by Diversey. If the light at the Diversey station is on the Brown Line line, then you are on a Brown Line train or if it is on a Purple Line line n the map, then it is a Purple Line train.

[Busjack]

Totally agree. However, there are also electronic signs inside the train that will help, they are above the door at the end of the car that is closest to its married partner car. Also the rail maps over the service doors are supposed to be electric and show where the train is on a given route. ...

However, the point is that when you are on the platform looking down the tracks at the approaching train, the first thing you see is the color of the sign over the front door. Even if you are not looking down the tracks, the side of the train is probably passing you. Presumably one would have to pack into a crowded train to look over the door to see the electronic map.

So long as the early indications were that the production models would go on the Blue or some say Red Line, it wouldn't make any difference, as in the conceivable future, each line (O'Hare-Dearborn-Congress, or Dan-Ryan-State-Howard) would have one color. However, since CTA says that the passenger testing is going to be on all lines this year, sw's point is valid, to the extent it makes a difference to someone boarding between Belmont and Mdse Mart inclusive which direction the train goes around the loop.

There was the point made by others that if you are Korean, you at least know that the sign is cafe color, as the signs in Spanish say.

Of course, you have to wonder that, if CTA brass hasn't figured that out yet, whether they will get the message here.

[Scionic]

They've been pressed into service as of this morning. Hopefully the CTA will hear how people feel about longitudinal seating. It doesn't really look like anyone in the picture in this photo is really happy about it.

Chicago Breaking News - 5000s Arrive