5000-series - Updates

[jajuan]

Well looking at it from an engineer's point of view, any reputable engineer will tell you that any new machine or machine part doesn't get certified by them unless it's taken through simulations and tests under every feasible condition and environment that the customer of that machine, in this case CTA, will likely use it and shown it can operate properly and SAFELY in those conditions. So this is not just some mere public relations ploy on the CTA's part even if it does potentially work in their favor from a public standpoint. This is the engineers of both CTA and Bombardier doing their jobs and following standard engineering rule of thumb especially if any of them is licensed or looking to be licensed.

[Mr.cta85]

So I just got off from riding the 5000's on the Green Line. I took the train to Harlem so I could catch the 9:10 am departure, thanks a lot Bus Hunter by the way the time you said was right on it. To begin with I waited about a good 20mins at Harlem for them to arrive which wasn't bad when they pulled in the station I believe car # 5007 and 5008 was leading with 5005, 5004 in the middle and of course 5010 and 5009 were the last 2. It was about 8:55 am when they arrived (on a side note) their LED signs were on and everything) shortly after that they were pulled in the back I guess to inspect the trains. Then around 9:05 they pulled back in the station with 5009 leading this time so I got on that car of course. A few things I noticed this time was when they pulled out heading to Ashland/63rd (just like you said Bus Hunter) the LED signs weren't on and the operator had to call the stops and let people know the doors were opened. On a good note the breaking was much smoother no vibrating at all. And also I forget who it was that was talkin about the train operator not liking the 5000's but I think I seen who you were talkin about lol she favors the older cars way more than the new ones. And another rail operator nicknamed the 5000's "precious" her and another operator. Over all the ride was really smooth I just hope they make 5009 and 5010 like the rest of the fleet I know its for promotional purposes but I think the riders get that they're new cars lol. Last but not least as I stated awhile back they should keep the seating like the older fleet. I know cta is trying to keep us updated like New York, Boston and etc but that's what seperate us from them and plus we chicagoians are used to the old seatings and we've adjusted to boarding trains during rush hour with luggage, back pack and etc so just keep that the same. And a random note....I can't wait for the 2600's to be put back on the Green Line lol you just know its going to happen sooner or later am I right??

[BusHunter]

Enjoy them on the Green line while you still can. According to what Greenstreet mentioned (#5000's will run for three more weeks on Green line starting 7/12) the #5000's should be heading to the Blue line Aug 2nd.

[sw4400]

Enjoy them on the Green line while you still can. According to what Greenstreet mentioned (#5000's will run for three more weeks on Green line starting 7/12) the #5000's should be heading to the Blue line Aug 2nd.

Confirmed, BusHunter...

BTW: I'm not usually right, but I am on the beginning of this test period. If my adjusted table is correct from this Monday on, the next line test should take place on Monday August 23rd, but only time will tell...

[greenstreet]

Confirmed, BusHunter...

BTW: I'm not usually right, but I am on the beginning of this test period. If my adjusted table is correct from this Monday on, the next line test should take place on Monday August 23rd, but only time will tell...

As BusHunter and SW have indicated, the CTA announced (press release) that testing will begin on the Blue Line on Monday, August 2.

What's interesting about this phase of the testing is that (according to CTA rail staff) this phase of the testing is scheduled to last from Monday, August 2 through Saturday, September 4. That's 5 weeks of Blue Line testing, not 4, as has been the case with the Red and Green Lines.

Scheduled Weekday Departure Time From O’Hare

0600

0907

1310

1630

2012

Scheduled Weekday Departure Time from Forest Park

0735

1050

1452

1812

2149

Scheduled Saturday Departure Time From O’Hare

0600

0915

1300

1615

2001

Scheduled Saturday Departure Time from Forest Park

0737

1052

1437

1752

2137

Scheduled Sunday Departure Time From O’Hare

0600

0910

1300

1620

2010

Scheduled Sunday Departure Time from Forest Park

0736

1035

1445

1755

2149

[Busjack]

That's 5 weeks of Blue Line testing, not 4, as has been the case with the Red and Green Lines.

In that the Blue Line is longer than the Green, and undoubtedly where they will end up (because Kruesi said, and that's where the 2200s are) it makes sense that they should get the longest shakeout there. Odds are, they don't hit the Green Line for revenue service until the next order, if then (depending, on say, if the Red Line expansion goes through and 78 more cars are needed there), considering, between the Blue and Red Lines, about 700 cars are needed. I don't think they'll need the last 84 or so of the 706 cars for the Airport Express, as previously disclosed.

[sw4400]

In that the Blue Line is longer than the Green, and undoubtedly where they will end up (because Kruesi said, and that's where the 2200s are) it makes sense that they should get the longest shakeout there. Odds are, they don't hit the Green Line for revenue service until the next order, if then (depending, on say, if the Red Line expansion goes through and 78 more cars are needed there), considering, between the Blue and Red Lines, about 700 cars are needed. I don't think they'll need the last 84 or so of the 706 cars for the Airport Express, as previously disclosed.

There still is the Brown Line expansion in need of permanent additions(e.g no more "Ravenston or "Ravensway", or whatever you call the Brown/Orange combo). As far as additionals for the Red Line, there are 186 2600-Series cars on the Blue Line, some of which can be sent to the Red for expansion purposes, making the Red Line 100% trainable with each other. But this entire order of 5000-Series cars(presuming all are ordered) will be sent to the following four lines(these are alphabetized, as I have no way of knowing which gets what first, aside from the Blue Line)

Blue, Brown, Green, Purple

[Busjack]

There still is the Brown Line expansion in need of permanent additions(e.g no more "Ravenston or "Ravensway", or whatever you call the Brown/Orange combo). As far as additionals for the Red Line, there are 186 2600-Series cars on the Blue Line, some of which can be sent to the Red for expansion purposes, making the Red Line 100% trainable with each other. But this entire order of 5000-Series cars(presuming all are ordered) will be sent to the following four lines(these are alphabetized, as I have no way of knowing which gets what first, aside from the Blue Line)

Blue, Brown, Green, Purple

I reduce my estimate of what would be needed on the current Blue and Red to 650.

However, since you don't work for CTA, you have no idea where any would go.

With regard to Brown, I thought that the last 60 or so of the 406 would go there because of the expansion, but that expansion sure now appears to be what one critic said it was--to get 8 car trains on lesser frequency--especially after the Feb. 2010 cutbacks.

I'm sure you are throwing out Green and Purple for the same reason you stated the order of bus replacement, in that they have 2400s to be replaced. However, let me assure you that Purple (or Evanston) has always had the oldest cars, and aside from when it was a trolley operation until 1974, there is a very good reason--because 80% of the cars there run rush hour only.

The reason that the Green is mostly 2400s is probably similar--it has light ridership.

Unless whoever Rodriguez's successor in about 2014 is totally mad (and that is possible), CTA is not going to be running old cars on the Red Line while 90 of the 110 or so new cars assigned to the Purple are sitting in the Howard and Linden Yards 18 hours a day; 24 hours a day on weekends.

I'll take from you a bet that the 3000s on the Blue Line go to the Green and Purple.

[artthouwill]

I know it is still a bit away, but I still think that at some point, these cars can be tested on dual lines at the same time. For instance, a four car Pink Line consist (with two spare in case something goes wrong), with the Yellow line running a two car consist (with 2 spare in case something goes wrong). Besides, if they are supposedly testing under every possible operating condition, then operating them in four and two car consists only makes sense. CTA would still have spares to train with the test cars in this scenario. Depending on the schedule, then CTA could give the cars one final spin as the Holiday Train which will visit every line.

[sw4400]

Depending on the schedule, then CTA could give the cars one final spin as the Holiday Train which will visit every line.

Not likely. The last line test will begin sometime around, if not November 15th. This will allow 2893-2898 to be moved from the Yellow Line to Skokie Shops to get transformed into the Holiday Train, along with 2891-2892 from the Red Line. The 5000's will probably be assigned to the Yellow Line then. They will not be tested as the Holiday Train, as the flatcar is D/C powered, and the 5000's are A/C.

[BusHunter]

It should be interesting to see how quiet and smooth the cars should run on the relatively new roadbed that was placed on the Kennedy section. On the flipside, we'll get to see how good the sound proofing is on the train when it travels through the Milwaukee segment of the Dearborn subway. That has to be some of the loudest stretch of track on the system. I remember when riding the #6000's through there your ears would ring from the loud sounds. (especially if the windows were raised) As far as where the cars will go after 2010 I still say the Blue and Red with the #2600's going to Purple and Green. As far as dual line testing they may have to test the last two lines together (There's 5 lines left in Sept. with 4 months to test) or cut the last 4 lines test to 3 weeks each, or they will be testing in 2011. CTA has stated however no cars will be ordered until the testing is complete. So maybe they will be pushed a month late so they may give the OK to Bombardier in Feb 2011.

[Guest]

While working the #606 today I spotted cars #5011-5012 sitting at Rosemont yard.

[Mr.cta85]

Hey I have a question anybody feel free to answer cause you all seem to know a lot about this but what I wanted to know was once the 5000's start coming in I know the 2600's will be moved around to other lines like the Green and Purple but what are the chances of the 3200's moving to another line??. I remember someone stating that 60 or so of the 5000's series was going to the Brown Line so does that mean some 3200's might go somewhere else??

[rmadisonwi]

There still is the Brown Line expansion in need of permanent additions(e.g no more "Ravenston or "Ravensway", or whatever you call the Brown/Orange combo).

The limiting condition here is the capacity of Kimball yard. Otherwise, CTA could just transfer some cars from Midway (or Howard) to Kimball and be done with it.

[sw4400]

but what are the chances of the 3200's moving to another line??. I remember someone stating that 60 or so of the 5000's series was going to the Brown Line so does that mean some 3200's might go somewhere else??

That might've been Busjack(he mentioned something about 60 cars to the Brown Line). As far as some 5000's going to the Brown Line, I'd say yes because they are still due "X" amount for expansion since becoming an 8-car capable line. My original theory was that the 5000's move to Brown and Orange, and the 3200's move to Blue, Green and Purple to replace the 2200's and 2400's. But that theory is not appearing likely now, since the 5000's are slated to replace the 2200's on the Blue Line and the 2400's on the Green and Purple. The first 150-200 of the 2600's are getting close to 30 yrs old, so their retirement should* start in the next few years. If the CTA is committed to fleet management now, and not 'a band-aid here, a band-aid there', then the 2600's total retirement should be by 2017*(last group turns 30) and the 3200's total retirement should be 2024*(last group turns 30).

*= If the CTA has the capital funding to order more railcars

[artthouwill]

I think we all agree that the first 318 of the 406 cars will go to the Blue Line. I guess what happens next depends on whether/when the CTA exercises the option of 294 to bring the total to 700 cars. If that does take place, then the logical scenario would be to make the Red Line the next line to receive all 5000s, which leaves roughly 64 5000s to go elsewhere. However, if the Red Line gets extended to 130th, that probably would take care of that problem. That leaves the 2200s, 2400s, and 2601 thru about 2799 retired.

Highly unlikely, but possible, that the CTA only orders the original 406 only, then its possible the remaining 88 cars not assigned to the Blue Line still go to the Red, but another possibility would be that they go to the Orange Line, sending some 3200s to the Brown Line. In any scenario, the Green, Pink, and Purple Lines will not see the 5000s in their regular fleet.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Does the CTA have any brochures or timetables on the 5000 series

[BusExpert32]

Does the CTA have any brochures or timetables on the 5000 series

greenstreet posted the blue line schedule for the 5000s in the first post of this page.

[greenstreet]

A number of posts have made references to testing of the 5000-series cars being complete by the end of this year.

Why do some members of this board think that? I've re-read through many of the posts on this topic and through all the CTA's online source material. I don't see any official or established inside source (such as Rmadison) stating that testing is planned or scheduled to be complete this year. What am I missing?

This piqued my interest because quite a few suppositions about timing and delivery of new cars seem to be based on the theory that testing will be complete and the actual order for delivery placed this year.

[sw4400]

A number of posts have made references to testing of the 5000-series cars being complete by the end of this year.

Why do some members of this board think that? I've re-read through many of the posts on this topic and through all the CTA's online source material. I don't see any official or established inside source (such as Rmadison) stating that testing is planned or scheduled to be complete this year. What am I missing?

This piqued my interest because quite a few suppositions about timing and delivery of new cars seem to be based on the theory that testing will be complete and the actual order for delivery placed this year.

The CTA has said that they want to place the order in 2011, which would mean they want to complete testing by Dec. 2010 so they can gather the data on what they and the passengers like/dislike with the 5000's and what additions(if any) they would like to see with the rest of the order(e.g blue LED's like the later NF's have, colored LED for the destination signs)

[Busjack]

The CTA has said that they want to place the order in 2011, which would mean they want to complete testing by Dec. 2010 so they can gather the data on what they and the passengers like/dislike with the 5000's and what additions(if any) they would like to see with the rest of the order(e.g blue LED's like the later NF's have, colored LED for the destination signs)

The CTA officially said:

The cars must successfully complete testing before the CTA will finalize the order of the remaining 396 rail cars.

Now, while I must admit that various entities (including CTA and New Flyer) have put misleading stuff on the Internet, it seems pretty clear from the above what its intent is.

Anyway, if they want to place the order in 2011, conceivably they have until Dec. 31, 2011 to do so.

In any event, it seems to be only one poster who persists with an arbitrary deadline and arbitrary allocation of the cars.

[Guest]

About eight cars of 5000s are sitting at the Rosemont yard right now, in a good photo spot too! As you pass the yard along 190, the cars are on the tracks closest to the main on the inbound to OHare.

[Mr.cta85]

Just a random though about the 5000's series. But If you really look really close and pay attention to them don't they look like the great 6000 series? and although they look similar to the 3200's they ALSO look just the 2600 series wouldn't you all agree?

[Guest]

Just a random though about the 5000's series. But If you really look really close and pay attention to them don't they look like the great 6000 series? and although they look similar to the 3200's they ALSO look just the 2600 series wouldn't you all agree?

I think you'd better explain yourself! I agree the similarities to the 2600/3200 series but in what way do they look like the 6000s?

[Mr.cta85]

I think you'd better explain yourself! I agree the similarities to the 2600/3200 series but in what way do they look like the 6000s?

I say they look like the 6000 series because if you look at their end caps and the end caps on the 5000's you'll notice the similarities in their design not talking about the headlights I'm talking about mainly the windows lol for example. If you notice the 26 and 3200 windows have like a out line on their windows while the 6000 and 5000's don't. To me the 5000's are like updated version of the 6000's. Also I wanted to say something else not relating to my previous statement I think the next order of trains should be dedicated to the older cars as far as their exterior design is concerned for example the nexts cars should resemble the 2000's (besides the blinker doors of course). Cta has a history of re numbering new buses and trains so why don't they design newer train cars in memory of classic trains such as the 6000's and 2000's.