5000-series - Updates

[MetroShadow]

I get a hint of something MORE seriously wrong with these Bombardier railcars with this Montreal Gazette Article....

I believe it is a matter of semantics, above all else. If you have a 50XX car being seen along parts of the system, then those are not retired by any means.

/unless the Canadian Dictionary defines 'retired' as a Brett Favre type retirement.

[BusHunter]

Spotted a #5000 yesterday coming in on the truck at Skokie. I couldn't see the number, but it was unweathered and appeared new. I wonder if deliveries are starting up again or is this a railcar with a newer truck. (that they may want to examine before giving an Ok to more cars) We may be seeing cars in service soon, but they won't be the cars with the defective truck assemblies.

[aherstein]

Any word on the colored LED destination signs?

[Sam92]

Any word on the colored LED destination signs?

From now on, al of the cars will come in with colored signs

[sw4400]

From now on, al of the cars will come in with colored signs

I'll believe that when my colorblind eyes see it(color is visible to me, but distinguishing some hues are very difficult)

[ChicagoNova]

Today at 12:23pm, I spotted #5041 leading a 5000 Series 4-car consist traveling south on Wabash. It was not in service.

[sw4400]

Looks like Bombardier is getting business from the BART. They were... *surprise surprise* the LOWEST BIDDER!!! They beat out Alstom, a well known French firm that rebuilt the 2600's for their mid-life overhauls and Hyundai-Rotem, a South Korean Manufacturer. I hope they don't have any problems with their orders if BART accepts the bid and starts production on new railcars for them.

Story

[sw4400]

Today at 12:23pm, I spotted #5041 leading a 5000 Series 4-car consist traveling south on Wabash. It was not in service.

Honestly, Bombardier is getting to be a joke!!! This is the second shutdown of service for issues. First was the failing brakes, now bad wheels due to an inferior company contracted to make the trucks for the railcars. We've had issues with the Budd 2200's in 1969-1970 with the third rail shoe causing fires that had to be corrected, but that was it. The Boeing-Vertol 2400's delivered in 1976-1978 had no problems that I remember except the CTA wanted them retrofitted with cab controls I believe. The Budd/Transit America 2600's delivered in 1981-1987 had no problems to speak of until 1999 when the Blizzard rendered them useless. The Morrison-Knudsen 3200's delivered in 1991-1994 have yet to have a major malfunction. The CTA has had good quality equipment for 40 years, then Bombardier comes along and we have yet to see these railcars have uninterrupted revenue service for a year. They've been in non-revenue service for I bet close to two years now(accumulated by actual testing and the two service shutdowns)!!! I think the next big problem with this series is going to have something to do with the leveler/kneeler they are equipped with. I doubt very highly that this is the last of the problems with this company going down the same road as NABI with the 60-LFW. Equipment that appears in the beginning as good, but quickly unravels as the days/months & years go by.

[See Tea Eh]

Honestly, Bombardier is getting to be a joke!!! This is the second shutdown of service for issues.

We're really way into the "beating a dead horse" aspect of this thread.

We get it. The 5000s have been out of service for three months. Ten days ago we got some more detailed information as to the nature of the problem.

How many "Bombardier sucks" and "this is just like NABI" posts do we need?

[Railwaymodeler]

We're really way into the "beating a dead horse" aspect of this thread.

We get it. The 5000s have been out of service for three months. Ten days ago we got some more detailed information as to the nature of the problem.

How many "Bombardier sucks" and "this is just like NABI" posts do we need?

I was starting to think this too. All in all, we're all here in various capacities, but transit fans is pretty much the commonality.

It's rather foamer-ish to deride a defective piece of equipment, and I am often guilty of it. Much as kids can debate Ford-Chevy, I tend to argue that EMD products trump GE anyday, and have lots of fun heckling Metra crews when I'm on a train pulled by an MP36 and it's even five seconds late. Pity the crew of the time I was on a train powered by an MP36 and it broke down!

The outcome of the 5000 series cars' testing and work, has yet to be seen, really. I am starting to think this will play out different from the NABI fiasco. At least the CTA and Bombardier have been better about the whole incident than NABI was. Given that Pace's 2400 series buses (built by NABI also), had issues with the transmission and a few other minor problems, and Pace ended up fixing them in-house, so far it seems that Bombardier, though still lagging in service over the wheel problems, is still at least a step up from NABI.

[sw4400]

I'm more than willing to give the 5000's a chance....

But they gotta be in revenue service uninterrupted for 1 year!!! Thus far, they haven't been in uninterrupted revenue service for even 6 months!!! The older equipment fared better during their introductions with limited time out of service for changes in some equipment(2200's) or retrofitting(2400's). And these are the very railcars these 5000's are supposed to be replacing. How much longer can the 2200's keep going? Some are already retired because they've had it... they can't just do it anymore and needed to be removed from service. The 2400's might have some more life in them because they're just over the 30-year mark, but the 2200's are all over 40 years old!!! This was probably the final year for them, but because of ongoing issues with the 5000's, the CTA is forced to attempt to keep them chugging along, but they are slowly disappearing on their own...

2291-2292 are authorized for retirement

2325-2326 are authorized for retirement

2329-2330 are authorized for retirement

2283-2284 are long-term holds

2345-2346 are long-term holds

2299-2300 are possibly retired

Info above credited to BusHunter

2269-2270 are retired

Info above credited to artthouwill

[CURRENTZ_09]

SO, when are the 2200-series officially being retired out of service and when will the CTA put the "official" 2200-series retire brochures out?

[Mr.cta85]

SO, when are the 2200-series officially being retired out of service and when will the CTA put the "official" 2200-series retire brochures out?

That will probably happen once the 5000 situation is officially fixed and only God knows when that will be so until then the 22 and 2400's will be around just a bit more than planned.

[trainman8119]

I tend to argue that EMD products trump GE anyday, and have lots of fun heckling Metra crews when I'm on a train pulled by an MP36 and it's even five seconds late. Pity the crew of the time I was on a train powered by an MP36 and it broke down!

I don't think you'll find too many Metra crews who like the MP36's. Even though engineers had the opportunity to help design them (at least on the inside) Metra decided to ignore their comments about actually buying the crap. The computers continue to restrict the ability to operate these things efficiently. And many stated that they would only be good for about 10 years and fall apart. Most engineers would have liked GM units similar to what Amtrak has.

IMO, the longer the 5000s are out the better. The seating is a joke and they really don't ride all that smooth at all. Probably the best cars to ride in the system right now are the 3200s.

[Amtrak41]

Given the 5K fiasco, a missed opportunity was purchasing retired PATH Kawasaki PA4 cars of 1986 (about half of the 95 were retired, the rest work service), train some crews and maintenance people on air brakes, and run them on the Pink and Yellow Lines. The cars dimensionally are 3 feet longer with the same truck base as CTA so any clearance problems would have been minimal.

[Busjack]

Given the 5K fiasco, a missed opportunity was purchasing retired PATH Kawasaki PA4 cars of 1986 (about half of the 95 were retired, the rest work service), train some crews and maintenance people on air brakes, and run them on the Pink and Yellow Lines. The cars dimensionally are 3 feet longer with the same truck base as CTA so any clearance problems would have been minimal.

So, you are suggesting buying approximately 26 year old retired cars? Also, since CTA car dimensions have not changed since 1950, supposedly because of the clearances,* what makes you think that 3 feet longer is going to fit here? Also, if they are air brake, they couldn't train with anything currently on the CTA, which, again, has purchased all electric equipment since 1948.

__________

*The first question is whether they would clear the high girder added at Lake & Wabash as a result of the 1977 crash there with the L cars falling into the street.

[See Tea Eh]

I highly doubt CTA will issue any brochures on the 2200 series retirements.

Maybe a little photo-shoot press conference with a few folks who otherwise wouldn't be seen near transit equipment (such as the CTA board).

[RJL6000]

Given the 5K fiasco, a missed opportunity was purchasing retired PATH Kawasaki PA4 cars of 1986 (about half of the 95 were retired, the rest work service), train some crews and maintenance people on air brakes, and run them on the Pink and Yellow Lines. The cars dimensionally are 3 feet longer with the same truck base as CTA so any clearance problems would have been minimal.

That will not solve the problem at all on the Pink Line. In fact, the entire Loop 'L' structure restricts the length of compatible cars to only 48 feet long. The longer cars will only derail repeatedly (or have cars repeatedly uncoupled from one another) on those super-tight curves on the Loop 'L'. And those cars cannot be trained together at all with any of the CTA's current (or future) equipment due not only to their braking systems, but are (I believe) AC-traction-motored. And even if the Pink Line itself could handle 51-foot cars, the operation of those cars would have been restricted to between 54th/Cermak and Clark/Lake only (those cars could not be operated at all on the rest of the Loop elevated structure). And that would have been unfeasible because the switching just west of Clark/Lake would have bottlenecked traffic badly at Tower 18 and its associated junction at Wells/Lake.

The CTA's rolling stock has always been 48 feet long per car (with the exception of the four 1947-built 5000-series articulated cars, which were about 70 feet long but were divided into three sections and had four sets of truck assemblies instead of just two).

[Busjack]

I highly doubt CTA will issue any brochures on the 2200 series retirements.

Maybe a little photo-shoot press conference with a few folks who otherwise wouldn't be seen near transit equipment (such as the CTA board).

Not even that.

The only real sign will be when CTA posts an Invitation to Bid to purchase so many rail cars, price: weight per pound at the scrap yard.

The only reason that the retirement of the 6000 Flxibles was announced was that it was in connection with reducing bus service 20%.

In effect, IRM has had its last rides. Maybe Graham Garfield will, too, but there will not be an official commemoration.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Not even that.

The only real sign will be when CTA posts an Invitation to Bid to purchase so many rail cars, price: weight per pound at the scrap yard.

The only reason that the retirement of the 6000 Flxibles was announced was that it was in connection with reducing bus service 20%.

In effect, IRM has had its last rides. Maybe Graham Garfield will, too, but there will not be an official commemoration.

This, will be tragic, because these cars have served the system for over 40 years and i know the riders may not miss them, but they were an important part of their commutee through chicago. I would be a shame for the CTA to just let little know people that don't even ride the CTA bid them farewell in a PRIVATE Ceromony.

[Busjack]

This, will be tragic, because these cars have served the system for over 40 years and i know the riders may not miss them, but they were an important part of their commutee through chicago. I would be a shame for the CTA to just let little know people that don't even ride the CTA bid them farewell in a PRIVATE Ceromony.

Chicago isn't that much into sentimentality. As far as I know, the last type of transit equipment that got a decorated sendoff was the Wentworth PCC streetcar in 1958 (recorded in Lind's book). CTA saved a few pieces of its commemorative equipment (refurbished 4200 brown and orange cars, 2000 series cars repainted in the 1898 style as a "sculpture" at Skokie Shops, and a few buses), but basically, by unloading its historic streetcar fleet to IRM, and giving the restored 6101-6102 cars to the Fox River Trolley Museum, admitted that it doesn't have the space to store them. (The old Wrightwood barn was used to store the CTA historic collection, but was demolished and I believe is now a dog park.)

Anyway, Mayor Emanuel is too busy with press opportunities on something that is supposed to happen, as opposed to something that is on the way out.

Finally, while the 2200s were a clear break with the past when received in 1969, they pretty much became "just another car" by now; especially when the leather seats were taken out and replaced with the plastic shells.

[BusHunter]

Not even that.

The only real sign will be when CTA posts an Invitation to Bid to purchase so many rail cars, price: weight per pound at the scrap yard.

The only reason that the retirement of the 6000 Flxibles was announced was that it was in connection with reducing bus service 20%.

In effect, IRM has had its last rides. Maybe Graham Garfield will, too, but there will not be an official commemoration.

There actually were signs posted at Merchandise Mart/Brown line when the #5-50's were being retired. It gave times of the last trip, which was on the blue line and stated something to the effect of join them on there last trip. But it was the only location that had the signs that I could find. As far as I know there was nothing for the #2000's. If the #2200's stick around for another year, (unless they want to roll the dice on unproven equipment) that may be enough time for another fantrip.

[chitowndude84]

I love the 2000's aswell due to them being the last OLD SCHOOL 60's/blinker door subway car in service,hate to see them go .And it did get kinda weird once when me and my mom where visiting family in Chicago and she laughed and told me she rode these trains(2000's) when she was a kid in Chicago

[Amtrak41]

How long were the North Shore Line cars that ran on the Loop until 1963 ?

[Busjack]

How long were the North Shore Line cars that ran on the Loop until 1963 ?

The later ones were bowed and articulated, similar to the CTA 5000 series of the late 1940s (later 51-54). A reference is here.

But that's probably not relevant to what would be interoperable today. For instance, the girder to which I previously referred wasn't there.