CTA Bus New "Stop" Rear Displays

[jajuan]

Hey guys. While out this morning running errands, I noticed with a couple of New Novas operating on the #84 Peterson that when each bus stopped at bus stops, the rear route number displays flashed "84" and then "STOP". Does anyone know if this is a new feature added to buses during this new fall pick, or is it a recent tweak that happened earlier but I'm just noticing today? I pose the question that way because other destination display tweaks don't always happen right at a system pick change. Some examples of tweaks in the middle of a pick are northbound 22's and 147's current flip displaying "TO HOWARD L STN" behind the route number happening some weeks into the winter pick, SB 147 buses displaying "147 to IDA B WELLS DR/MICHIGAN" (in slimmer font) some time during July and most recently SB 146 signs flipping from route name to "146 TO MUSEUM CAMP SHEDD/FLD/ADLER" (on two lines and in slim font) to "146 VIA SOLDIER FIELD" during around late July/early Aug.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

11 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Hey guys. While out this morning running errands, I noticed with a couple of New Novas operating on the #84 Peterson that when each bus stopped at bus stops, the rear route number displays flashed "84" and then "STOP". Does anyone know if this is a new feature added to buses during this new fall pick, or is it a recent tweak that happened earlier but I'm just noticing today? I pose the question that way because other destination display tweaks don't always happen right at a system pick change. Some examples of tweaks in the middle of a pick are northbound 22's and 147's current flip displaying "TO HOWARD L STN" behind the route number happening some weeks into the winter pick, SB 147 buses displaying "147 to IDA B WELLS DR/MICHIGAN" (in slimmer font) some time during July and most recently SB 146 signs flipping from route name to "146 TO MUSEUM CAMP SHEDD/FLD/ADLER" (on two lines and in slim font) to "146 VIA SOLDIER FIELD" during around late July/early Aug.

I believe this is a new feature, I have no idea when it started. I believe all the Novas are going to get them. This topic was also on another CTA thread too.

[jajuan]

16 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

I believe this is a new feature, I have no idea when it started. I believe all the Novas are going to get them. This topic was also on another CTA thread too.

Thanks. And I've been extremely busy over the summer. So I haven't caught up yet on all the things I missed in those topics I haven't had as much time to follow. ?

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Just now, jajuan said:

Thanks. And I've been extremely busy over the summer. So I haven't caught up yet on all the things I missed in those topics I haven't had as much time to follow. ?

Oh, and you're welcome!

[Pace831]

Does the “STOP” display function the same as the brake lights, or does it only work when the flashers are on to signify stopping at a bus stop?

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

9 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Does the “STOP” display function the same as the brake lights, or does it only work when the flashers are on to signify stopping at a bus stop?

When the bus brakes

[Shannon CVPI]

8122 at C & 8296 at F got the stop display was flying pass it when saw it 

[strictures]

Have you seen the new display for the drivers on the New Flyers?  They tell the driver how many feet to the stops. 

What I don't like is the change from where it showed "Schld Late" or early with a number of minutes after it.  The new display of + or - plus minutes is harder for passengers to read.   I'll bet that was the reason for that change.

[Sam92]

6 minutes ago, strictures said:

Have you seen the new display for the drivers on the New Flyers?  They tell the driver how many feet to the stops. 

What I don't like is the change from where it showed "Schld Late" or early with a number of minutes after it.  The new display of + or - plus minutes is harder for passengers to read.   I'll bet that was the reason for that change.

Welp that screen was never meant to be read by someone that wasn't a driver anyway so... ?

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Welp that screen was never meant to be read by someone that wasn't a driver anyway so... ?

Even tho I always read the screen because every driver out of FG knows me ?

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

1 hour ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

Even tho I always read the screen because every driver out of FG knows me ?

Are you sure every single Forest Glen driver knows you??

[strictures]

3 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Welp that screen was never meant to be read by someone that wasn't a driver anyway so... ?

I would like the red LED display at the front to give the run number more often & also show how many minutes late the bus is.   I think if that was done, the CTA might finally figure out there are problems that they refuse to fix.   In the last few weeks, almost every 22 Clark has been running in pairs northbound, even when they don't have Cubs games or bridge openings.

[artthouwill]

1 minute ago, strictures said:

I would like the red LED display at the front to give the run number more often & also show how many minutes late the bus is.   I think if that was done, the CTA might finally figure out there are problems that they refuse to fix.   In the last few weeks, almost every 22 Clark has been running in pairs northbound, even when they don't have Cubs games or bridge openings.

First, as has been stated by @Sam92, that display is meant for the DRIVERS; not the passenger.   Second,  if the driver has that information. then it is also accessible to CTA Control.  However CTA can't control everything on the street.   Little things from waiting for a passenger coming from another bus, elderly passengers,  baby strollers, delivery trucks, emergency vehicles, other CTA vehicles can cause delays.  If Bus A gets delayed, it will snowball if it's late enough.  It may cause Bus A to start picking up passengers that under normal circumstances would be waiting for Bus B.  With less passengers than normal and less stops, Bus B can more easily keep its schedule thereby catching the late Bus A.  This happens regularly on the Elevated Loop Lines.  If a Green Line train gets behind schedule outside of downto,  it may become further delayed if it has to wait for Brown, Pink, Purple, and Orange Line trains to cross.  That could allow the following Green Line train to catch up, especially if the second train isn't impeded by any other train traffic.

With a route that has heavy vehicular traffic on the entire route like the 22 Clark, bus bunching is inevitable.  I once waited 30 minutes for a SB bus going downtown at Clark and Fullerton.   Keep in mind that there are TWO routes serving this stretch of Clark, the 22 AND the 36.  Finally about 3 or 4 buses appeared.  The first was a 22 and the 2nd was a 36.  The other 2 were too far back to tell.  The traffic on Clark was so bad there was no way any bus was going to pass another.  I said to myself from now on the L would be the best choice coming from the North Side.

Passengers can always use the Bustracker online or text for bus arrival info.

[Sam92]

1 hour ago, strictures said:

I would like the red LED display at the front to give the run number more often & also show how many minutes late the bus is.   I think if that was done, the CTA might finally figure out there are problems that they refuse to fix.   In the last few weeks, almost every 22 Clark has been running in pairs northbound, even when they don't have Cubs games or bridge openings.

Showing this info to the passengers does nothing for what you're asking for. Literally everything you're asking to show on the announcement display is already shown to the driver which is relayed and reported to scheduling and control. What could displaying what is essentially schedule adherence and driver trip info do on the public display if it isn't helping who it was meant to help. The real answer is to take the info your asking for to the scheduling department along with better policies such as running a bus express, telling operators to stop waiting for runners (they can catch the next bus), avoiding sending too many buses through a source of consistent delays (short turning or route splitting)

[strictures]

Oh, good grief!

The scheduling department, like most of the CTA is incompetent.  I ride buses every day & from what I see, many drivers are responsible for the delays. 

Sure there are plenty of other reasons, but drivers who won't pass another bus, screw it up.  Drivers who won't lower the bus all the time also make it lose time.  There are at least half the drivers out of North Park, that simply won't lower the bus, even in the middle of the street, unless asked.   Even then, they just barely lower it.  They need to connect the kneeling mechanism to the door opener control so the bus always lowers, unless there's a reason not to, such as on the Loop Link platforms. 

I've also ridden a number of Pace buses lately & it's amazing, not one of them starts up with that hard jerk that almost every CTA driver manages to do.  I was once knocked to the floor, even though I was holding on to a stanchion, that's how hard this driver started up from a standing start.  He never even asked if I was OK!

As for the L, there are two kinds of motormen, ones who open the doors as soon as they hit their stop mark & those who insist on opening the window & looking out & then opening the doors.  Since all Red Line trains from morning through night are 8 cars, if they hit the 8 mark, they know all cars are on the platform.  By waiting for the window to open & look out, adds at least 5 seconds per stop & that means a couple minutes behind schedule at midpoint in the run.  That means extra people on the platform to load & that causes additional delays, which cascade down the system!

[YoungBusLover]

15 hours ago, strictures said:

Oh, good grief!

The scheduling department, like most of the CTA is incompetent.  I ride buses every day & from what I see, many drivers are responsible for the delays. 

Sure there are plenty of other reasons, but drivers who won't pass another bus, screw it up.  Drivers who won't lower the bus all the time also make it lose time.  There are at least half the drivers out of North Park, that simply won't lower the bus, even in the middle of the street, unless asked.   Even then, they just barely lower it.  They need to connect the kneeling mechanism to the door opener control so the bus always lowers, unless there's a reason not to, such as on the Loop Link platforms. 

I've also ridden a number of Pace buses lately & it's amazing, not one of them starts up with that hard jerk that almost every CTA driver manages to do.  I was once knocked to the floor, even though I was holding on to a stanchion, that's how hard this driver started up from a standing start.  He never even asked if I was OK!

As for the L, there are two kinds of motormen, ones who open the doors as soon as they hit their stop mark & those who insist on opening the window & looking out & then opening the doors.  Since all Red Line trains from morning through night are 8 cars, if they hit the 8 mark, they know all cars are on the platform.  By waiting for the window to open & look out, adds at least 5 seconds per stop & that means a couple minutes behind schedule at midpoint in the run.  That means extra people on the platform to load & that causes additional delays, which cascade down the system!

I hear your frustrations and maybe these are just an issues at North Park your experiencing. However i've traveled the entire city whether it is by train or bus and have been in every territory for all CTA bus garages and what I can tell you from my experience is that a majority of drivers do kneel the bus when picking up passengers when the situation presents itself. The hard jerk your referring to is the acceleration transition right? I've never experienced that before. As for the cat and mouse games drivers play on the road when some drivers are down by nearly 20+ minutes in some spots that is a major issue that I wish CTA would look into. Having said all of that i've traveled on Ashland  for most of my life and I've seen drivers with semi empty buses tailgate behind a  a driver that is nearly at max capacity for nearly half the route and it bugs me especially during peak hours. Some drivers will purposely sit a block behind and wait for an already full bus to pick up more passengers then speed on by once they have done so. I've seen so many drivers in the past get so upset about there fellow co-workers doing that because it makes them look like there the issue as to why they're behind schedule even more by such a large margin. Scheduling is hard to manage on major streets where the density of traffic changes every hour on the hour. 

[artthouwill]

41 minutes ago, strictures said:

Oh, good grief!

The scheduling department, like most of the CTA is incompetent.  I ride buses every day & from what I see, many drivers are responsible for the delays. 

Sure there are plenty of other reasons, but drivers who won't pass another bus, screw it up.  Drivers who won't lower the bus all the time also make it lose time.  There are at least half the drivers out of North Park, that simply won't lower the bus, even in the middle of the street, unless asked.   Even then, they just barely lower it.  They need to connect the kneeling mechanism to the door opener control so the bus always lowers, unless there's a reason not to, such as on the Loop Link platforms. 

I've also ridden a number of Pace buses lately & it's amazing, not one of them starts up with that hard jerk that almost every CTA driver manages to do.  I was once knocked to the floor, even though I was holding on to a stanchion, that's how hard this driver started up from a standing start.  He never even asked if I was OK!

As for the L, there are two kinds of motormen, ones who open the doors as soon as they hit their stop mark & those who insist on opening the window & looking out & then opening the doors.  Since all Red Line trains from morning through night are 8 cars, if they hit the 8 mark, they know all cars are on the platform.  By waiting for the window to open & look out, adds at least 5 seconds per stop & that means a couple minutes behind schedule at midpoint in the run.  That means extra people on the platform to load & that causes additional delays, which cascade down the system!

There's a good reason why some buses won't pass others.  If the trailer is exactly on time, he certainly won't risk being written up for running hot.  CTA tries to keep things running consistently, if not smoothly.  Depending on routes, schedules,  and time of day, rearranging buses affects overtime, equipment availability and possibly fuel (shortage) issues.  You complain about drivers not keeping up with their schedules,  then you complain about how fast they take off from a stop.

As for your L complaint, the vast majority of Red Line stations are Island platforms, meaning doors will open on the left.  But CTA is a right hand operation, so opening doors immediately upon stopping is easy when you are at a side platform where doors open on the right.  However with the Island platforms, the operator has to walk to the left side and he should open his window and look before opening the doors for safety reasons.  If there is an incident or obstruction on the platform, it may be wise to not open the doors for the safety of those still on the train.  The only obstruction to Red Line trains are NB at Clark Junction and Howard.  SB trains have NB Brown Line trains crossing  over at Clark Junction. Outside of that,  unless there's track work, Red Line trains don't share tracks with other Lines.   So 5 extra seconds only add up to 1 1/2 minute along the entire line.  Delays can be more attributed to Red Line trains waiting for Purple and Brown Lune trains for transfer passengers at Wilson, Belmont,  and Fullerton. 

Back to your door situation.   Unlike the 2600 series cars that will come to an automatic stop, the 5000 series cars don't.   A 2600 series operator can head to the opposite door with train rolling at 1 or 2 mph knowing it will stop automatically and he can save your 5 seconds.  I've seen operators try this with the 5000s but the trains don't stop.  The operator has to keep his hand on the lever until the train stops completely.   Since the Red Line is made up of all 5000s, there will be that 5 second delay.  It's not the operator 's chouce.

There will always be bunching.  It's not a perfect world.

[NewFlyerMCI]

28 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I hear your frustrations and maybe these are just an issues at North Park your experiencing. However i've traveled the entire city whether it is by train or bus and have been in every territory for all CTA bus garages and what I can tell you from my experience is that a majority of drivers do kneel the bus when picking up passengers when the situation prevents itself. The hard jerk your referring to is the acceleration transition right? I've never experienced that before. As for the cat and mouse games drivers play on the road when some drivers are down by nearly 20+ minutes in some spots that is a major issue that I wish CTA would look into. Having said all of that i've traveled on Ashland  for most of my life and I've seen drivers with semi empty buses tailgate behind a  a driver that is nearly at max capacity for nearly half the route and it bugs me especially during peak hours. Some drivers will purposely sit a block behind and wait for an already full bus to pick up more passengers then speed on by once they have done so. I've seen so many drivers in the past get so upset about there fellow co-workers doing that because it makes them look like there the issue as to why they're behind schedule even more by such a large margin. Scheduling is hard to manage on major streets where the density of traffic changes every hour on the hour. 

CTA drivers and skipping passengers, name a more iconic duo. Can't remember the amount of times I've been skipped on the 3 & 4 by both the max capacity bus and the following bus with little to no passengers ?

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

8 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Are you sure every single Forest Glen driver knows you??

Yes?

[YoungBusLover]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

There's a good reason why some buses won't pass others.  If the trailer is exactly on time, he certainly won't risk being written up for running hot.  CTA tries to keep things running consistently, if not smoothly.  Depending on routes, schedules,  and time of day, rearranging buses affects overtime, equipment availability and possibly fuel (shortage) issues.  You complain about drivers not keeping up with their schedules,  then you complain about how fast they take off from a stop.

As for your L complaint, the vast majority of Red Line stations are Island platforms, meaning doors will open on the left.  But CTA is a right hand operation, so opening doors immediately upon stopping is easy when you are at a side platform where doors open on the right.  However with the Island platforms, the operator has to walk to the left side and he should open his window and look before opening the doors for safety reasons.  If there is an incident or obstruction on the platform, it may be wise to not open the doors for the safety of those still on the train.  The only obstruction to Red Line trains are NB at Clark Junction and Howard.  SB trains have NB Brown Line trains crossing  over at Clark Junction. Outside of that,  unless there's track work, Red Line trains don't share tracks with other Lines.   So 5 extra seconds only add up to 1 1/2 minute along the entire line.  Delays can be more attributed to Red Line trains waiting for Purple and Brown Lune trains for transfer passengers at Wilson, Belmont,  and Fullerton. 

Back to your door situation.   Unlike the 2600 series cars that will come to an automatic stop, the 5000 series cars don't.   A 2600 series operator can head to the opposite door with train rolling at 1 or 2 mph knowing it will stop automatically and he can save your 5 seconds.  I've seen operators try this with the 5000s but the trains don't stop.  The operator has to keep his hand on the lever until the train stops completely.   Since the Red Line is made up of all 5000s, there will be that 5 second delay.  It's not the operator 's chouce.

There will always be bunching.  It's not a perfect world.

I'm referring to when all drivers are delayed by a semi big interval and they play these cat and mouse games which then affects everyone on-board and customers further down the route some drivers who are on time I get it from that stand point but even at times if you're on time and you catch your leader from lets say a mile or two out and you see that they're at capacity why not help them out rather than sitting behind knowing passengers want to get on your bus and you don't allow them to by having half of your bus sitting in middle of the street out of view from passengers attempting to get on. 

[YoungBusLover]

24 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

Yes?

I highly doubt that. Its fine that you may know a few drivers but claiming you know everyone there is a bit much of a reach.

[artthouwill]

34 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

I'm referring to when all drivers are delayed by a semi big interval and they play these cat and mouse games which then affects everyone on-board and customers further down the route some drivers who are on time I get it from that stand point but even at times if you're on time and you catch your leader from lets say a mile or two out and you see that they're at capacity why not help them out rather than sitting behind knowing passengers want to get on your bus and you don't allow them to by having half of your bus sitting in middle of the street out of view from passengers attempting to get on. 

I have certainly seen drivers help each other out and I have seen the hang backs.  Most hangbacks are schedule related although there's also the "rookie" treatment where the leader is a newer driver and the trailer is a vet.

Back to the topic, I haven't noticed the STOP display on 77th or 74th's Novas.

[YoungBusLover]

15 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I have certainly seen drivers help each other out and I have seen the hang backs.  Most hangbacks are schedule related although there's also the "rookie" treatment where the leader is a newer driver and the trailer is a vet.

Back to the topic, I haven't noticed the STOP display on 77th or 74th's Novas.

The STOP display is working for a few but not all that i've seen so far from 74th and 77th.

[fg.mark]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I have certainly seen drivers help each other out and I have seen the hang backs.  Most hangbacks are schedule related although there's also the "rookie" treatment where the leader is a newer driver and the trailer is a vet.

Back to the topic, I haven't noticed the STOP display on 77th or 74th's Novas.

Supervisors are also to blame.  Even with pre-paid boarding, a supervisor is almost always present at the Blue Line at Kimball during the evening rush period.  He likes to keep the second bus at the terminal for a few minutes even if both buses are behind schedule if he notices a gap in service, even if that gap is only ten minutes.  It is pointless for the follower to pass the leader if he will still be held back at Kimball by the supervisor.

[geneking7320]

7 hours ago, strictures said:

  Drivers who won't lower the bus all the time also make it lose time. 

I think CTA drivers lower the bus too often. If the bus is curbed and the boarding passenger is able bodied (and without carts, etc) time can be saved.

Many times when I'm the only person boarding I am at the card reader before the bus is fully lowered.