CTA New Bus Order 2020

[artthouwill]

1 minute ago, 4CottageGrove95th said:

Not living in Chicago any longer, I have only had a few opportunities to ride the Novas (6400s or 7900s) or the newest PACE Eldorados.  As for the Proterras, they are all electric, aren't they?  And if my memory is correct, didn't CTA use a demonstrator Proterra on a few selected routes a couple of years ago??

The Proterras are electric.  There was one on display at CTA Headquarters.  But the only revenue service electric buses I've seen are New Flyer electrics 700 and 701.  The only Proterras I've ever seen in service in Chicago are the Prudential and Aon Center buses, which those companies, or rather their building property management, operates.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

The Proterras are electric.  There was one on display at CTA Headquarters.  But the only revenue service electric buses I've seen are New Flyer electrics 700 and 701.  The only Proterras I've ever seen in service in Chicago are the Prudential and Aon Center buses, which those companies, or rather their building property management, operates.

You might be thinking about the design line ecosaver. I got a news video clip on my youtube of that bus. 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

You might be thinking about the design line ecosaver. I got a news video clip on my youtube of that bus. 

I never saw them in service.  Apparently,  CTA wasn't a fan of Design Line.

[geneking7320]

On 11/13/2020 at 7:08 PM, 4CottageGrove95th said:

You're right about the destination signs on the New Flyer Xcelsiors in Phoenix. I seen the newest additions to Phoenix Metro routes (40 ft. Xcelsiors) like 41 Indian School, 17 McDowell Road and a few on 44 44th Street/Tatum Rd. Yes, you can most definitely see those  "LED White" signs clearly even in bright sunlight.  But what ever CTA decides on respecting its purchase of new buses, I truly hope they DO NOT go with Gillig. For some reason, to me Gilligs just don't fit the "big-city image" of the likes of New York City or Chicago. I can't picture seeing a Gillig on the 151 Sheridan Road route or on 62 Archer or on, say 3 King Drive or 4 Cottage Grove, even in CTA livery!  And while I'm sure I'm being a bit prejudice here, I don't think they would provide the durability needed for Chicago use, especially given the city's rough winters.  

I have only ridden Gilligs (flat and BRT fronts) in Minneapolis when I visited in 2009. I thought they were comfortable. Personally I would trade all the Novas for Gilligs with BRT fronts.

BTW, up here in Rogers Park I've seen Gilligs working the INTERCAMPUS shuttle (NU maybe?) on Clark, Morse and Sheridan I think. Maybe they do fit the 'big-city image' after all.

[BusHunter]

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I never saw them in service.  Apparently,  CTA wasn't a fan of Design Line.

I rode one on the #49, but they were just demonstrators nothing fancy. They were hybrid electric. It was at 74th, that was the only place it ran. They would have been ok for a small town service or something here that would use a 30 foot bus. Maybe if you wanted to save money from buying something full size they would be of use. I believe the story was they were being used in the Carolinas as a airport shuttle. They supposedly went out of business in 2013. A company called EPV bought them out. 

[rvwnsd]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:26 PM, artthouwill said:

It's generally good to small to medium sized markets.   The Twin Cities are a haven for Gilligs and have been for decades.  They hold up well in their brutal winters and the extreme desert summer heat in Phoenix.  The low floors are boxy looking, but are solid.  I hated the Phantoms,  but they were almost exclusive in the Twin Cities when I was there, save for New Flyer artics.

I think the Xcelsiors are the odds on favorite to be the next CTA order. .

When I first moved to San Diego it seemed like every time I took the bus it was a Phantom. Absolutely hated those things.

Time will tell how the Gillig low-floors do in Phoenix. They run on some very long routes with bad traffic such as the  7 - Seventh Street, 17 - McDowell, 29 -Thomas, and 50 - Camelback. However, the most recent bus order was a fleet of Xcelsiors.

I don't see CTA buying Gilligs. My guess is they buy Xcelsiors.

[ChicagoNova]

Just my personal preference: I would prefer more Novas, both 40' & 60'.

[4CottageGrove95th]

15 minutes ago, ChicagoNova said:

Just my personal preference: I would prefer more Novas, both 40' & 60'.

Yeah........60 foot Nova artics will work!

[YoungBusLover]

11 hours ago, ChicagoNova said:

Just my personal preference: I would prefer more Novas, both 40' & 60'.

I'm sorry but no, the newer generations of Nova LFS are a handful to deal with while operating especially when not maintained properly. I'd take my chances with New Flyer seeing as the D40LFs/60LFs/LFRs have held up pretty well post rehabs. I see more #7900's at south shops than #1000's which leaves me to believe they have some underlying problems and some underlying lemons attached to them. Some problems arise are driver error but others arise from bad maintenance and fragility, it takes a skilled operator to really understand how these 4th generation novas work as far as braking systems,throttle input and suspension. I'm no mechanic but I do understand that in order to keep something moving for many years you have to take care of it otherwise they'll end up at south shops constantly or worse the BONEYARD......dun dun dun dun......?

[4CottageGrove95th]

3 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

I'm sorry but no, the newer generations of Nova LFS are a handful to deal with while operating especially when not maintained properly. I'd take my chances with New Flyer seeing as the D40LFs/60LFs/LFRs have held up pretty well post rehabs. I see more #7900's at south shops than #1000's which leaves me to believe they have some underlying problems and some underlying lemons attached to them. Some problems arise are driver error but others arise from bad maintenance and fragility, it takes a skilled operator to really understand how these 4th generation novas work as far as braking systems,throttle input and suspension. I'm no mechanic but I do understand that in order to keep something moving for many years you have to take care of it otherwise they'll end up at south shops constantly or worse the BONEYARD......dun dun dun dun......?

Well, for what it's worth, the Nova's "look" nice, although somewhat "dated".  But truth be told, ALMOST everything produced in this day and age is made with poor quality; from subway/el cars, to buses, to passenger aircraft, etc, you name it.  As a side not and somewhat off the subject, look at NYCTA's newest Bombardier R179 "B" division subway cars.  It seems like almost from the time they were entered into revenue service only about a year or so ago, these cars have been nothing but trouble with one major issue after another.  And the order isn't close to being completely received as far as I know.

[artthouwill]

57 minutes ago, 4CottageGrove95th said:

Well, for what it's worth, the Nova's "look" nice, although somewhat "dated".  But truth be told, ALMOST everything produced in this day and age is made with poor quality; from subway/el cars, to buses, to passenger aircraft, etc, you name it.  As a side not and somewhat off the subject, look at NYCTA's newest Bombardier R179 "B" division subway cars.  It seems like almost from the time they were entered into revenue service only about a year or so ago, these cars have been nothing but trouble with one major issue after another.  And the order isn't close to being completely received as far as I know.

There has been and probably be manufacturing issues.  The new look GMCs (1000s, 7400s,9000s, and 9600s) had roof leaks and a/c issues.  The a/c issues were so bad, CTA ordered the 9800/1600s, 4000s, and 4400 series bus WITHOUT A/C.  We know about the 7500 series NABIs.  

University of Alabama used to have Novas for their Crimson Ride campus service.  Its been quite a while since I rode,  but the a/c worked great.  It had ro work in high 90s low 100s temperatures with high humidity.  I don't know who contracts with them, whether its VIA,  or First.

[NewFlyerMCI]

I hope they shy away from Nova's. New York's have been the only one's I've been on with no ac issues, and that's probably cause I'm not there that often. Baltimore's, Philly's and Chicago's have all had multiple ac issues (and Baltimore's are new!). Also, not sure if its the bus or the driver, but the nova's in Philly have a notorious back door problem, be it 40ft or 60ft.  Philly's new Xcelsiors otoh are wonderful. I'm only waiting for the Proterra's to come back to service.

[4CottageGrove95th]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

There has been and probably be manufacturing issues.  The new look GMCs (1000s, 7400s,9000s, and 9600s) had roof leaks and a/c issues.  The a/c issues were so bad, CTA ordered the 9800/1600s, 4000s, and 4400 series bus WITHOUT A/C.  We know about the 7500 series NABIs.  

University of Alabama used to have Novas for their Crimson Ride campus service.  Its been quite a while since I rode,  but the a/c worked great.  It had ro work in high 90s low 100s temperatures with high humidity.  I don't know who contracts with them, whether its VIA,  or First.

Yeah, I remember very well the days when getting on the "new look" GMCs after heavy rain you had to watch where you sat because some of the seats would have small puddles in them or would get dripped on. Heck, I remember when the Boeing 2400s went into revenue service there was a defect in the "resilient" wheels on that series.  There was at least one incident where to wheel hub slightly separated from the flanged tread and caused a minor derailment. I can't remember the yard that happened in.  A motorman explained to me that the "hub" on those wheels were made of a steel that was apparently too soft. Now, how true that was, I don't know. But I do remember the derailment as well as the cause.      

[Tcmetro]

An update from the CTA Capital Improvement Plan presentation to the CMAP Transportation Committee on Dec 11 2020:

• Contract award in 2021
• Base order of 100 buses begin delivery Q3 2021
• 500 buses post-2022

Page 8 of the CTA CIP presentation at CMAP Transportation Committee: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1110048/CTA_CIP_FY2021-2025_CMAP_final.pdf/31f48863-4ea0-263d-2472-5d0acd6c52d8?t=1607726249694

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Tcmetro said:

An update from the CTA Capital Improvement Plan presentation to the CMAP Transportation Committee on Dec 11 2020:

• Contract award in 2021
• Base order of 100 buses begin delivery Q3 2021
• 500 buses post-2022

Page 8 of the CTA CIP presentation at CMAP Transportation Committee: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/1110048/CTA_CIP_FY2021-2025_CMAP_final.pdf/31f48863-4ea0-263d-2472-5d0acd6c52d8?t=1607726249694

Only 6 #600s have been delivered? Wow I thought there was at least 10 here by now, page 14 caught my attention though

Bus Rolling Stock

Purchase 600 new Standard Buses - Base order of 100 with an option(s) for additional 500 Buses. Contract award December 2020 or early 2021. Buses delivered late 2021. I wonder which manufacturer will CTA go with this time.  

Electric Buses - CIP funds future Order of Up to 70 Buses. While for the funded Purchase of 20 Electric Buses - First six buses in service late 2020 or early 2021. Remaining buses in service 3rd Qtr. 2021. 

Mid-life overhaul of 100 Artic buses (4300 Series) - Buses placed into service in 2012 are due overhaul. Contract award in Mid-2021 and work complete thru 2nd Qtr. 2022.

Life Extending Overhaul on 430 Standard New Flyer buses. This work allows for buses to operate in service, until $’s are available to replace these buses. Capital Maintenance Program that targets work between overhaul cycles. Would the last 430 ordered get the rehab or will it be a variety of what has been in the best condition rather worse? 

 

 

[Sam92]

4 hours ago, YoungBusLover said:

Only 6 #600s have been delivered? Wow I thought there was at least 10 here by now, page 14 caught my attention though

Bus Rolling Stock

Purchase 600 new Standard Buses - Base order of 100 with an option(s) for additional 500 Buses. Contract award December 2020 or early 2021. Buses delivered late 2021. I wonder which manufacturer will CTA go with this time.  

Electric Buses - CIP funds future Order of Up to 70 Buses. While for the funded Purchase of 20 Electric Buses - First six buses in service late 2020 or early 2021. Remaining buses in service 3rd Qtr. 2021. 

Mid-life overhaul of 100 Artic buses (4300 Series) - Buses placed into service in 2012 are due overhaul. Contract award in Mid-2021 and work complete thru 2nd Qtr. 2022.

Life Extending Overhaul on 430 Standard New Flyer buses. This work allows for buses to operate in service, until $’s are available to replace these buses. Capital Maintenance Program that targets work between overhaul cycles. Would the last 430 ordered get the rehab or will it be a variety of what has been in the best condition rather worse? 

 

 

Most likely they’d keep the 1000s with the lowest miles and rehab them while they replace the others in the 600 option

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Most likely they’d keep the 1000s with the lowest miles and rehab them while they replace the others in the 600 option

or maybe the other way around??rehab the ones with crap ton of miles on them why would they rehab the ones with low miles?(just a prediction u might be right or might be wrong)

[YoungBusLover]

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

Most likely they’d keep the 1000s with the lowest miles and rehab them while they replace the others in the 600 option

If they go that route then my theory from the summer may be correct then becuase from what I've seen from 77th is a mix bag of low mileage ranging from 5k to 30k miles with great perfomance being the 1200s and 1300s pop up over the last several months while others haven't been tocuhed and have between 100k to 200k miles on them now and are starting to show there age. I think once CTA does get started with the 600 option you'll see start seeing the lemons of the fleet go first and then after that it will be a mystery.

11 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

or maybe the other way around??rehab the ones with crap ton of miles on them why would they rehab the ones with low miles?(just a prediction u might be right or might be wrong)

I'd hardly think CTA would go that route, the highest mileage and low performance 1000s would get slated for retirement first or it could be a mix bag of low mileage bad performance along with high mileage with age. #1245 and #1716 are prime examples of being lemons that haven't met there fate yet.

[Sam92]

33 minutes ago, Mr.NewFlyer1051 said:

or maybe the other way around??rehab the ones with crap ton of miles on them why would they rehab the ones with low miles?(just a prediction u might be right or might be wrong)

You’d rehab the remaining 430 with the lowest miles because 600 buses get retired by the new ones. So the ones with a crap ton of milage should jsut bite it rather than waste time on something that’s already been beat up when there’s stuff less used which means less rehab work needed and wouldn’t be as much a pain in the neck to maintain. These are life extending rehabs to bridge the gap that those buses are probably gonna be around for more than 12 years. 

[Sam92]

27 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

If they go that route then my theory from the summer may be correct then becuase from what I've seen from 77th is a mix bag of low mileage ranging from 5k to 30k miles with great perfomance being the 1200s and 1300s pop up over the last several months while others haven't been tocuhed and have between 100k to 200k miles on them now and are starting to show there age. I think once CTA does get started with the 600 option you'll see start seeing the lemons of the fleet go first and then after that it will be a mystery.

I'd hardly think CTA would go that route, the highest mileage and low performance 1000s would get slated for retirement first or it could be a mix bag of low mileage bad performance along with high mileage with age. #1245 and #1716 are prime examples of being lemons that haven't met there fate yet.

Oh anything that 77th has had its hands on for long periods of time is gonna be the first to go. So maybe a few 1930-1960 range, and others. It’s weird that 1200’s and 1300’s would have so much life left seeing as they’ve been bounced between 77th, Kenzie or even 103rd

[Shannoncvpi]

9 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Oh anything that 77th has had its hands on for long periods of time is gonna be the first to go. So maybe a few 1930-1960 range, and others. It’s weird that 1200’s and 1300’s would have so much life left seeing as they’ve been bounced between 77th, Kenzie or even 103rd

Exactly 7 beats tf out of a bus 7903-07 7 need to come get those & give a few artics back & dont forget alot of 13's been at C also & what happened to 1716

 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

1 hour ago, YoungBusLover said:

If they go that route then my theory from the summer may be correct then becuase from what I've seen from 77th is a mix bag of low mileage ranging from 5k to 30k miles with great perfomance being the 1200s and 1300s pop up over the last several months while others haven't been tocuhed and have between 100k to 200k miles on them now and are starting to show there age. I think once CTA does get started with the 600 option you'll see start seeing the lemons of the fleet go first and then after that it will be a mystery.

I'd hardly think CTA would go that route, the highest mileage and low performance 1000s would get slated for retirement first or it could be a mix bag of low mileage bad performance along with high mileage with age. #1245 and #1716 are prime examples of being lemons that haven't met there fate yet.

whatever ended up happening to #1245? is it still on LTH and what happen to #1716

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

27 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said:

Exactly 7 beats tf out of a bus 7903-07 7 need to come get those & give a few artics back & dont forget alot of 13's been at C also & what happened to 1716

 

they’re used on heavy routes with crap ton of potholes (ex: 79)

39 minutes ago, Sam92 said:

Oh anything that 77th has had its hands on for long periods of time is gonna be the first to go. So maybe a few 1930-1960 range, and others. It’s weird that 1200’s and 1300’s would have so much life left seeing as they’ve been bounced between 77th, Kenzie or even 103rd

what if they bring back some flyers that were on LTH?

[YoungBusLover]

1 hour ago, Sam92 said:

Oh anything that 77th has had its hands on for long periods of time is gonna be the first to go. So maybe a few 1930-1960 range, and others. It’s weird that 1200’s and 1300’s would have so much life left seeing as they’ve been bounced between 77th, Kenzie or even 103rd

The crazy thing is I've seen less 1000s having issues as of late from 77th,the 7900s on the other hand though have been getting towed like crazy from all the breakdowns ive seen and that's just in the last couple of weeks, I had 1258 last night which was a breeze it only had 20k miles on it and ran fairly ok, I had 1344 one week prior and it had less than 10k miles on and ran like new. Tonight I have 7911 and it has less than 7k miles on it and I must say it feels rehabbed just from what im feeling while operating it. Time will tell though for the 1000s but yeah 1245 is LTH and by my estimates retired, 1716 has a host of unknown problems that's the best o can tell ya.

[Shannoncvpi]

14 minutes ago, YoungBusLover said:

The crazy thing is I've seen less 1000s having issues as of late from 77th,the 7900s on the other hand though have been getting towed like crazy from all the breakdowns ive seen and that's just in the last couple of weeks, I had 1258 last night which was a breeze it only had 20k miles on it and ran fairly ok, I had 1344 one week prior and it had less than 10k miles on and ran like new. Tonight I have 7911 and it has less than 7k miles on it and I must say it feels rehabbed just from what im feeling while operating it. Time will tell though for the 1000s but yeah 1245 is LTH and by my estimates retired, 1716 has a host of unknown problems that's the best o can tell ya.

Dam 1344 only got 10k miles along withthe others with lower miles