Create Your Own CTA Line

[ChicagoNova]

6 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

South Park? And Vincennes goes past 69th?

Correction: King Drive instead of South Park.

[jackathan]

That would be interesting. Here we go:

 

Color: Magenta

"This is a Magenta Line train to the Loop."

Stops toward the Loop:

- 76th/Grand (similar to 54th/Cermak with its name, but in Elmwood Park)

- Harlem

- Oak Park

- Narragansett

- Austin

- Central

- Cicero

- Pulaski

- North Avenue

- Grand/Homan

- Sacramento

- Western

- Damen

- Ashland

- Morgan

- Halsted

- Merchandise Mart (connect w/ Brown Line, Purple Line Express)

And thru the loop, whether clockwise or counterclockwise, then Merchandise Mart, and making all normal stops herein in the opposite order through 76th/Grand.

"This is Merchandise Mart. Transfer to Purple and Brown Line trains at Merchandise Mart. This is a Magenta Line train to 76th and Grand."

[strictures]

I don't have a name, but their would be two lines.

Both would start at Howard & go west on the Swift tracks.  The first would then go south as a subway under Western Ave, all the way to 95th & then go east & meet up with the Dan Ryan Line.

The second would go father west & follow the the old Skokie Valley Line of the Northwestern south, until it joins the Belt Ry line & then continue south & join the Midway Line, stop at Midway & Ford City & go east along the various RR rights of way near 75th street & pass the Ryan line, with a transfer point & go all the way southeast to Hegewische.

[geneking7320]

I would create at least two circular lines.

One would connect all the downtown Metra terminals.

The second would connect all the Metra lines at either the last in city station or a station not far beyond the Chicago city limits.

[strictures]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:47 PM, geneking7320 said:

I would create at least two circular lines.

One would connect all the downtown Metra terminals.

The second would connect all the Metra lines at either the last in city station or a station not far beyond the Chicago city limits.

Just move the Wells Street side of the Loop L to Clinton Street.  That would connect Ogilvie & Union Stations to the CTA rail.  Then restore the direct connection from the LaSalle/Van Buren Station to LaSalle Street Station.

[geneking7320]

8 hours ago, strictures said:

Just move the Wells Street side of the Loop L to Clinton Street.  That would connect Ogilvie & Union Stations to the CTA rail.  Then restore the direct connection from the LaSalle/Van Buren Station to LaSalle Street Station.

I like it! ?

Merry Christmas and have a brave 2022. ?

[richii0909]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:47 PM, geneking7320 said:

I would create at least two circular lines.

One would connect all the downtown Metra terminals.

The second would connect all the Metra lines at either the last in city station or a station not far beyond the Chicago city limits.

Yes I have been wanting this for the longest.  They could use a 4 train car and stop only at washington & Wabash (ME District), LaSalle/Van Buren (LaSalle Street Station), and lastly Clinton stop (OTC and Chicago Union station coverage) past clinton there is a cross over to turn the train around and start over again. I would call it the Metra link and give it a teal color. Finally all the cabbies would be happy less chances of going to another station.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, richii0909 said:

Yes I have been wanting this for the longest.  They could use a 4 train car and stop only at washington & Wabash (ME District), LaSalle/Van Buren (LaSalle Street Station), and lastly Clinton stop (OTC and Chicago Union station coverage) past clinton there is a cross over to turn the train around and start over again. I would call it the Metra link and give it a teal color. Finally all the cabbies would be happy less chances of going to another station.

On occasion CTA used to run Loop Shuttle trains, but why would you do that when the buses provide service to the train stations directly.  With the train you have to walk to the train, go up stairs, and once you get off, walk downstairs and walk to the Metra station.   CTA stations don't accept Link Up passes nor do they have discount Loop fares.  Honestly, a 4car train pretty much provides that service anyway.  It's cake the Pink Line.   It just can't run express due to other train traffic. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

7 hours ago, richii0909 said:

Yes I have been wanting this for the longest.  They could use a 4 train car and stop only at washington & Wabash (ME District), LaSalle/Van Buren (LaSalle Street Station), and lastly Clinton stop (OTC and Chicago Union station coverage) past clinton there is a cross over to turn the train around and start over again. I would call it the Metra link and give it a teal color. Finally all the cabbies would be happy less chances of going to another station.

 

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

On occasion CTA used to run Loop Shuttle trains, but why would you do that when the buses provide service to the train stations directly.  With the train you have to walk to the train, go up stairs, and once you get off, walk downstairs and walk to the Metra station.   CTA stations don't accept Link Up passes nor do they have discount Loop fares.  Honestly, a 4car train pretty much provides that service anyway.  It's cake the Pink Line.   It just can't run express due to other train traffic. 

Agreed, the train is not effective as a last mile solution for any of the downtown stations except LaSalle (and that’s a strong barely/maybe)

if you’re at OTC, a bus down Washington or up Canal is coming before you’d even finish the walk to Clinton. At CUS, buses leave the terminal fairly frequently (during rush hour at least, sucks any other time). Millennium is probably the best connected, with both access to the pedway and at least one full time bus route heading in every direction. The common denominator here is that all these stations have a bus going somewhere that the L doesn’t; be it River North, Streeterville, Mag Mile, Monroe/Clark, etc. 

The train traffic thing is also a big deal as art said; btwn the speed the trains have to travel, the two junctions and the fact that any express service will inevitably just get stuck behind a local train, and you’ve just created another local. 
 

Now, if LaSalle blue got an auxiliary entrance at LSS and OTC had that auxiliary entrance directly into Clinton Green/Pink, that’ll do wonders for connectivity (and Metra fare integration)

[strictures]

55 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

OTC had that auxiliary entrance directly into Clinton Green/Pink, that’ll do wonders for connectivity (and Metra fare integration)

There used to be the Northwest Passage at OTC, to get to the Clinton/Lake L Station but it took up Track 1, but it was eliminated decades ago.  What's needed are stairs at the north end of all the platforms there to go up & over the tracks to a bridge to go straight into the Clinton Lake Station.  I know there's no way to make it handicapped accessible, so that might kill it.

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

On occasion CTA used to run Loop Shuttle trains, but why would you do that when the buses provide service to the train stations directly.  With the train you have to walk to the train, go up stairs, and once you get off, walk downstairs and walk to the Metra station.   CTA stations don't accept Link Up passes nor do they have discount Loop fares.  Honestly, a 4car train pretty much provides that service anyway.  It's cake the Pink Line.   It just can't run express due to other train traffic. 

The Loop Shuttle was needed because there wasn't another way to get from Wells St. to Clark/Lake, which then was heavy because it served the Dan Ryan line. The Orange Line and moving the Dan Ryan to the subway took care of that.

[busfan2847]

12 hours ago, artthouwill said:

On occasion CTA used to run Loop Shuttle trains, but why would you do that when the buses provide service to the train stations directly.  With the train you have to walk to the train, go up stairs, and once you get off, walk downstairs and walk to the Metra station.   CTA stations don't accept Link Up passes nor do they have discount Loop fares.  Honestly, a 4car train pretty much provides that service anyway.  It's cake the Pink Line.   It just can't run express due to other train traffic. 

Link Up passes were accepted at CTA stations, while it was a sticker you had to find a member of staff. Later they became Transit Cards and more recently paper Venta cards which could be read by the turnstiles. I used them for years from 1998 until end of 2019.

[geneking7320]

For what it is worth, I made my post of 12/25/2021 because presently l Metra lines terminate at or close to the Loop.

I quick connector in the Loop could reduce the time need to travel from one end of the city to the other.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, geneking7320 said:

For what it is worth, I made my post of 12/25/2021 because presently l Metra lines terminate at or close to the Loop.

I quick connector in the Loop could reduce the time need to travel from one end of the city to the other.

Supposedly the Loop Link is that, which reminds me that the old CSL/CTA books had proposals for streetcar or bus subways under Washington.

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Supposedly the Loop Link is that, which reminds me that the old CSL/CTA books had proposals for streetcar or bus subways under Washington.

If the lights are right, Canal to Wabash can be done in ~6 or so minutes, even during peak. I spend longer on Michigan on the J14 than I do on Washington, and Madison is always a breeze

[strictures]

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Supposedly the Loop Link is that, which reminds me that the old CSL/CTA books had proposals for streetcar or bus subways under Washington.

I actually remember the old Washington St. streetcar tunnel, as it was fenced off in the center section of the bridge for the C&NW between Clinton & Canal.

[Bus1883]

Alright here’s my Line in this topic to begin with: 

 

Color: Gold Line/Elevated (West of Red Line) Stations: 

Car assignments: 5000-series or 7000-series 

130th St

95th St 

87th St 

79th St

69th St

63rd St

Garfield blvd 

47th St

35th Street

Ashland (Transfer to Orange Line Trains)

Halsted (Transfer To Orange Line Trains)

Roosevelt (Transfer to Green, Orange and Red Line Trains)

Adams/Wabash (Transfer to Green, Pink, Orange, Purple and Brown Line trains) 

Washington/Wabash (Transfer to South Shore Millennium Shore Line trains) 

State/Lake (Transfer to Red, Green, Pink, Brown, Purple and Orange Line Trains) 

Merchandise Mart (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line trains) 

Chicago (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line Trains)

Segewick (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line Trains)

Kedzie 

Pulaski 

Cicero 

Division

Logan Square 

Belmont 

Addison

Irving Park

Montrose

Jefferson Park (Transfer to Blue Line Trains) (Last stop)

For an example…

[NewFlyerMCI]

4 hours ago, Bus1883 said:

Alright here’s my Line in this topic to begin with: 

 

Color: Gold Line/Elevated (West of Red Line) Stations: 

Car assignments: 5000-series or 7000-series 

130th St

95th St 

87th St 

79th St

69th St

63rd St

Garfield blvd 

47th St

35th Street

Ashland (Transfer to Orange Line Trains)

Halsted (Transfer To Orange Line Trains)

Roosevelt (Transfer to Green, Orange and Red Line Trains)

Adams/Wabash (Transfer to Green, Pink, Orange, Purple and Brown Line trains) 

Washington/Wabash (Transfer to South Shore Millennium Shore Line trains) 

State/Lake (Transfer to Red, Green, Pink, Brown, Purple and Orange Line Trains) 

Merchandise Mart (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line trains) 

Chicago (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line Trains)

Segewick (Transfer to Purple and Brown Line Trains)

Kedzie 

Pulaski 

Cicero 

Division

Logan Square 

Belmont 

Addison

Irving Park

Montrose

Jefferson Park (Transfer to Blue Line Trains) (Last stop)

For an example…

Some of your listed stops don't really seem to match the diagram, but based on that, I'm assuming it'll be elevated over Racine from 130th to the Orange Line, follow existing tracks until Sedgwick, then elevated along North, then Cicero, then crossing over to Central before ending at Jeff Pk.

• Not sure an Ashland transfer would be possibly w/o some sort of massive dedicated transfer walkway, especially since the river is right under Ashland Orange
• 130th to 95th no stops is a questionable choice
  • Racine doesn't even get to 130th
  • 99th, 111th, 115th, 119th are all viable stops
  • There's a myriad of building challenges across the whole line, but I-57 and Exelon's solar panels seem particular;y herculean
• Any new loop routing should also operate via the south and west sides of the loop, so as to not compete with the Green Line (albeit at the cost of a in-station Blue Line transfer)
• Your line goes at an diagonal from Cicero/Belmont to Central/Irving Park and not at any sort of right angle, that's a lot of eminent domain, and people with the means to fight said ED.

There are elements of good ideas here, but ultimately, any north-south train that's built, needs to go up Ashland or Western with no deviation to the loop. If done correctly w/o even adding infill on existing lines, there will be a minimum of 5 different stations, no matter which path is taken, in which people can transfer to a loop-bound train, counting repeats; People who need to go downtown can transfer. If you need to go N-S and you live closer to the lake  than from it (aka east of the ryan/east of clark), you're fine, but west of that, you're forced to go downtown if you don't want to take the bus, and people don't like that. While more service on the lower NW side of the city would be beneficial, that might be something better served by a Blue Line spur (or beefing up existing Metra service). 

[Sam92]

7 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Some of your listed stops don't really seem to match the diagram, but based on that, I'm assuming it'll be elevated over Racine from 130th to the Orange Line, follow existing tracks until Sedgwick, then elevated along North, then Cicero, then crossing over to Central before ending at Jeff Pk.

• Not sure an Ashland transfer would be possibly w/o some sort of massive dedicated transfer walkway, especially since the river is right under Ashland Orange
• 130th to 95th no stops is a questionable choice
  • Racine doesn't even get to 130th
  • 99th, 111th, 115th, 119th are all viable stops
  • There's a myriad of building challenges across the whole line, but I-57 and Exelon's solar panels seem particular;y herculean
• Any new loop routing should also operate via the south and west sides of the loop, so as to not compete with the Green Line (albeit at the cost of a in-station Blue Line transfer)
• Your line goes at an diagonal from Cicero/Belmont to Central/Irving Park and not at any sort of right angle, that's a lot of eminent domain, and people with the means to fight said ED.

There are elements of good ideas here, but ultimately, any north-south train that's built, needs to go up Ashland or Western with no deviation to the loop. If done correctly w/o even adding infill on existing lines, there will be a minimum of 5 different stations, no matter which path is taken, in which people can transfer to a loop-bound train, counting repeats; People who need to go downtown can transfer. If you need to go N-S and you live closer to the lake  than from it (aka east of the ryan/east of clark), you're fine, but west of that, you're forced to go downtown if you don't want to take the bus, and people don't like that. While more service on the lower NW side of the city would be beneficial, that might be something better served by a Blue Line spur (or beefing up existing Metra service). 

Facts. Any new rapid transit needs a crosstown set up. That's why if an more X routes get revived it's gonna be either X54, X80 or X55 since they go where a rail line isn't nearby. The north Ave section I'd keep but push it along the 606 ROW (maybe even just widen the 606 to make a bus viaduct and keep room for walkers and bikers.) As rail or BRT and route it to Brickyard via bus viaduct, North Ave, Grand to Brickyard.

[geneking7320]

17 hours ago, strictures said:

I actually remember the old Washington St. streetcar tunnel, as it was fenced off in the center section of the bridge for the C&NW between Clinton & Canal.

The Chicago Surface Lines book has pics of trolleys using the tunnel.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, geneking7320 said:

The Chicago Surface Lines book has pics of trolleys using the tunnel.

True, but nothing came of the plans in those books to connect them to subways under Washington and Jackson (the 1958 plan had rapid transit in the latter).

[Busjack]

Related to the fantasy line topic is the 1976 map in Block Club Chicago, showing the Franklin and Monroe subways, neither of which was ever built. They would have replaced the Loop L, but with the recent station replacements, including the recently approved State-Lake one, that is not going to happen.

Note that one thing that did happen was connecting Dan Ryan to Howard, but that took about 16 more years.

[BusHunter]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:54 AM, Sam92 said:

Facts. Any new rapid transit needs a crosstown set up. That's why if an more X routes get revived it's gonna be either X54, X80 or X55 since they go where a rail line isn't nearby. The north Ave section I'd keep but push it along the 606 ROW (maybe even just widen the 606 to make a bus viaduct and keep room for walkers and bikers.) As rail or BRT and route it to Brickyard via bus viaduct, North Ave, Grand to Brickyard.

One thing that is kind of cool is in places like Japan and the orient, they have where the express bus goes off road onto elevated structures. Doing that you could effectively extend a few lines or start new ones, fly over the problem areas and achieve faster L like service to compliment the L. 

But I agree all double lane streets should get some express bus service. If the park lanes have to be kept use signal priority. It sure gets the ambulance down the street. Why chicago dont use it I dont understand. 

[NewFlyerMCI]

58 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

One thing that is kind of cool is in places like Japan and the orient, they have where the express bus goes off road onto elevated structures. Doing that you could effectively extend a few lines or start new ones, fly over the problem areas and achieve faster L like service to compliment the L. 

But I agree all double lane streets should get some express bus service. If the park lanes have to be kept use signal priority. It sure gets the ambulance down the street. Why chicago dont use it I dont understand. 

I actually just drew diagrams of BRT service for Roosevelt and Madison using that same logic. Planning on Irving Park next. 

Also did a BRT design using Chicago's boulevards to create rapid transit service from Hyde Park to Logan Square, also along the same principle

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

One thing that is kind of cool is in places like Japan and the orient, they have where the express bus goes off road onto elevated structures. Doing that you could effectively extend a few lines or start new ones, fly over the problem areas and achieve faster L like service to compliment the L. 

But I agree all double lane streets should get some express bus service. If the park lanes have to be kept use signal priority. It sure gets the ambulance down the street. Why chicago dont use it I dont understand. 

Having elevated express bus lanes is a very interesting idea.  But @Shannoncvpi wouldn't plow these lanes until after the side streets were plowed and you have stuck buses for days up there!