More Bus Moves

[TripleTransit1]

#4327 is not retired mate.

But wasn't it in some sort of accident or something?

[Guest]

Theyre going to have to dismantle the trailer section from the front section to tow it away.

[Guest]

Yes Jane Byrne was a forward thinking mayor who was before her time in many ways.

She definitely was a proponent of public transit in Chicago despite a transit strike during her tenure.

[artthouwill]

Holy......Moses......

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there is something about the way buses are designed that, when there is a blow out (tire) in the rear of the bus, it is very susceptible to catch fire. This used to be a problem with Prevost coaches but I think they installed some fire retardation system to combat that. I'm at a loss still as to how a flat tire translates into a fire. I had a motorcoach that had a blowout on the Will Rogers Turnpike in Oklahoma, but it didn't cause a fire. Perhaps its related to the braking system, and perhaps on motorcoaches the engine compartment, but on 4333 the engine is too far away. I don't know exactly where the fuel tank on these buses are, but perhaps if it is near the rear, a ruptured tank and hot rubber or brakes contributed to the fire.

[garmon757]

But wasn't it in some sort of accident or something?

It was but just because a bus was involved in an accident doesn't mean it's automatically retired.

[Busjack]

It's beyond shame!!! I have a feeling that both Cta and New Flyer Industry are going to get slammed about this! It's just a matter of time to figure out how this happened. TWO artics (including one of the MAN 7300s over a decade ago) catching fire and the NABI's getting shut down because of the cracks and other flaws?!?!?! That's highly inexcusable by all means!!!

Seems like that stuff happens on occasion. Either there is a fuel leak in the engine compartment or a brake fire. Unlike the usual brake fire situation where the burning is limited above the wheel, here it got too far. I suppose someone will do an "autopsy."

But wasn't it in some sort of accident or something?

Someone (Garmon?) had a picture that looked like someone had backed a flatbed truck into the plastic front, but it didn't seem to reflect structural damage. This bus, though, is done.

Question to CTA5750: Why are there are reports that LSD was shut down due to ice fighting the fire? Doesn't something like this require foam?

[garmon757]

Seems like that stuff happens on occasion. Either there is a fuel leak in the engine compartment or a brake fire. Unlike the usual brake fire situation where the burning is limited above the wheel, here it got too far. I suppose someone will do an "autopsy."

Someone (Garmon?) had a picture that looked like someone had backed a flatbed truck into the plastic front, but it didn't seem to reflect structural damage. This bus, though, is done.

Here they are. http://forum.chicagobus.org/topic/3444-cta-accidents/?p=64085

[artthouwill]

Seems like that stuff happens on occasion. Either there is a fuel leak in the engine compartment or a brake fire. Unlike the usual brake fire situation where the burning is limited above the wheel, here it got too far. I suppose someone will do an "autopsy."

Someone (Garmon?) had a picture that looked like someone had backed a flatbed truck into the plastic front, but it didn't seem to reflect structural damage. This bus, though, is done.

Question to CTA5750: Why are there are reports that LSD was shut down due to ice fighting the fire? Doesn't something like this require foam?

Isn't foam for electical fires?

[Busjack]

Isn't foam for electical fires?

I'll let 5750 answer that one, but on my kitchen fire extinguisher it says to use soda for that.

The concern seems to be that water just spreads a fuel fire, if that is what it was.

[sw4400]

Theres a report of a CTA bus fire on LSD. From the news footage it looks to be an artic.

UPDATE .... It was CTA NF #4333 The rear trailer section is completely destroyed.

Holy......Moses......

Not wanting to sound funny here.... but 4333 is toast....

There's no way this bus will be anything but scrapped now. It would need a new trailer end, drive axles, heater and A/C unit and most importantly(and expensively) a new/refurbished Cummins ISL9 engine, which would probably cost in excess of $10,000, more than the bus is worth now.

[sw4400]

Seems like that stuff happens on occasion. Either there is a fuel leak in the engine compartment or a brake fire. Unlike the usual brake fire situation where the burning is limited above the wheel, here it got too far. I suppose someone will do an "autopsy."

Someone (Garmon?) had a picture that looked like someone had backed a flatbed truck into the plastic front, but it didn't seem to reflect structural damage. This bus, though, is done.

Question to CTA5750: Why are there are reports that LSD was shut down due to ice fighting the fire? Doesn't something like this require foam?

My guess on your last question was the reports were not worded right. What it probably was being the temps are so low and the wind chills are well below zero, the water used to fight the fire has created a sheet of ice on LSD and will have to be treated by salt trucks before they reopen the drive.

[Busjack]

My guess on your last question was the reports were not worded right. What it probably was being the temps are so low and the wind chills are well below zero, the water used to fight the fire has created a sheet of ice on LSD and will have to be treated by salt trucks before they reopen the drive.

You obviously did not understand the question, at least the second question.

Let's leave it for 5750.

[sw4400]

I'll have raw shots of it if it comes to the shop.

It might just go to 95th/Ewing and sit there awaiting scrapping. South Shops is packed right now with New Flyers for rehab, two New Flyer DE60LFR's sitting there damaged(4323 & 4327), a reported DE60LF either on long-term hold or retired(4071) two DE40LF's(801 & 907), any remaining Optima Opus buses that were retired, and of course they are still receiving Novas(7900's) to prep and send to 77th.

[Busjack]

It might just go to 95th/Ewing and sit there awaiting scrapping. South Shops is packed right now with New Flyers for rehab, two New Flyer DE60LFR's sitting there damaged(4323 & 4327), a reported DE60LF either on long-term hold or retired(4071) two DE40LF's(801 & 907), any remaining Optima Opus buses that were retired, and of course they are still receiving Novas(7900's) to prep and send to 77th.

For one, you are assuming a scrap contract before the cause of the fire was even investigated. CTA does not own Sims.

Second, there is plenty of room now that the NABIs are gone, including the one you were going to make into a carnival attraction.

[Guest]

Seems like that stuff happens on occasion. Either there is a fuel leak in the engine compartment or a brake fire. Unlike the usual brake fire situation where the burning is limited above the wheel, here it got too far. I suppose someone will do an "autopsy."

Someone (Garmon?) had a picture that looked like someone had backed a flatbed truck into the plastic front, but it didn't seem to reflect structural damage. This bus, though, is done.

Question to CTA5750: Why are there are reports that LSD was shut down due to ice fighting the fire? Doesn't something like this require foam?

Yes foam can be used in an event such as this mornings bus fire, but it would only be required if a fuel spill was involved providing a blanket and preventing the fuel from spreading or igniting. If fuel is spilling out, foam would be required immediately as in the case of this mornings plane crash. A fuel spill was involved, aircraft fuel has a high flammability content, my guys did respond with foam immediately, thats why the aircraft thank god!, failed to ignite. Most of Chicago's fire engine companies have foam capability but there are a few engine companies around the city that are not so equipped. In the case of diesel fuel, it has a lower flammability content, it does not burn as quickly or is as explosive as aircraft or propane fuel. Normally in this case foam again would be used to extinguish it. I was told the bus driver did an outstanding job safely evacuating the passengers he had on board before the fire engulfed the bus. Now if the 4300s are diesel/electric hybrids then there could be an issue with whatever electrical components the bus may be equipped with. In the case of CTA trains/ third rails, the fire dept/CTA control ctr.and CTA supervision all have to confirm that power has been shut off to the tracks affected before they can go to work.

As for electrical fires you can a extinguisher that rated for electrical fires, In this case a "C' rating. You can look up the ratings online or theyre usually printed on the labels of every fire extinguisher. Whatever the extinguisher is rated, thats what it can be used for, nothing else! There are five ratings, A, B, C. There is also D and F Starting with "A" That would be for combustibles such as wood/paper, typically water can be used for this situation! Then there is Class "B" is for flammable liquids such as fuel, Class "C" is for electrical, typically its a dry powder substance/non conductive. Of course you never use water to put out an electrical fire! Class "D" is for metals such as magnesium, aluminum, titanium,etc... Class "K" is usually used in restaurants for fires involving grease or deep fryers.

[sw4400]

For one, you are assuming a scrap contract before the cause of the fire was even investigated. CTA does not own Sims.

Second, there is plenty of room now that the NABIs are gone, including the one you were going to make into a carnival attraction.

Where did you get I was talking about a scrap contract? I just mentioned that because they might not have room at 77th, they might just park the wreck at 95th/Ewing for the time. They've reported New Flyer D40LF's sitting in what is called the "Dead Line" because of lack of room right now due to rehabs and reception of Novas, and they weren't scrapping or retiring them. That tells me that there isn't as much room as you think at 77th right now if soon-to-be rehabbed New Flyers are sitting in a dead line.

[Busjack]

Yes foam can be used in an event such as this mornings bus fire, but it would only be required if a fuel spill was involved. If fuel is spilling out, foam would be required immediately as in the case of this mornings plane crash. A fuel spill was involved and aircraft fuel has a high flammability content, my guys did respond with foam immediately, thats why the aircraft thank god!, failed to ignite. ..

Thanks. The report of the plane crash was what made me think about that.

Seems like all hell broke out this morning.

[Busjack]

Where did you get I was talking about a scrap contract? I just mentioned that because they might not have room at 77th, they might just park the wreck at 95th/Ewing for the time. They've reported New Flyer D40LF's sitting in what is called the "Dead Line" because of lack of room right now due to rehabs and reception of Novas, and they weren't scrapping or retiring them. That tells me that there isn't as much room as you think at 77th right now if soon-to-be rehabbed New Flyers are sitting in a dead line.

How can they park something where they don't own the property?

And since you aren't like Garmon and willing to go out to 77th, you don't know what the conditions are there. Last time I was out there (a couple of months ago), there was plenty of room, especially since the east yard was cleared out.

[Guest]

Thanks. The report of the plane crash was what made me think about that.

Seems like all hell broke out this morning.

Yes, indeed it was a wild morning. Sadly one person passed away in all the events this morning. But given the number of people involved Im happy no one else was hurt or worse!

[BusHunter]

ABC has footage of the #4333 fire in progress.

http://abc7chicago.com/traffic/2-sb-lake-shore-drive-lanes-closed-after-cta-bus-fire/400176/

What a shame, that's practically a new bus. Usually most of those fires happen from overheated brakes on the back wheel. You can see from the pictures where the fire was at it's hottest point, right above the wheel well. The bus was burnt down to the structure.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

...Usually most of those fires happen from overheated brakes on the back wheel. You can see from the pictures where the fire was at it's hottest point, right above the wheel well. The bus was burnt down to the structure.

When I first saw the picture Garmon posted, I noticed the area around the back wheels seemed to be the most fire damaged, even though the engine was further back. Thanks for potentially confirming one of my thoughts that it was the wheels.

[BusHunter]

When I first saw the picture Garmon posted, I noticed the area around the back wheels seemed to be the most fire damaged, even though the engine was further back. Thanks for potentially confirming one of my thoughts that it was the wheels.

They got some real good pictures from the comments section of DNA.info's story

.http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141118/lincoln-park/lake-shore-drive-bus-crash-lincoln-park-fire-creates-nightmare-commute

Here's some of the shots. (In case they disappear off the site, I downloaded them)

http://instagram.com/p/vi5saRKmbM/

https://twitter.com/eisenbee/status/534724305071116288

http://instagram.com/p/vi-Fb7Afvg/

http://instagram.com/p/viwGEaxqN1/

[Busjack]

They got some real good pictures from the comments section of DNA.info's story

.http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20141118/lincoln-park/lake-shore-drive-bus-crash-lincoln-park-fire-creates-nightmare-commute

Here's some of the shots. (In case they disappear off the site, I downloaded them)

The thing I can't figure out is if the sides were steel, how the left side and roof peeled off that bad. Maybe they aren't.

[ArcherRider]

The thing I can't figure out is if the sides were steel, how the left side and roof peeled off that bad. Maybe they aren't.

The bus are not steel they are fiberglass because I remember my friend a told me since all new buses begin with 4400's all bus are fiberglass to save on diesel fuel.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

The thing I can't figure out is if the sides were steel, how the left side and roof peeled off that bad. Maybe they aren't.

Two additional possible ideas, proposed by someone I was talking to, assuming it was steel.

1. Firefighter intervention, like spraying water could have physically altered the metal when it was that hot, causing it to peel.

2. It was implied by the person I was talking to that the fire wouldn't have been hot enough to melt the steel, but it still could have caused it to peel.

Though if the area concerned was made of fiberglass like ArcherRider said, it would have burned up/peeled off quickly, according to the person I was talking to.