Red-Purple Bypass Project

[Busjack]

....

It seems sort of weird, they have the new structure at Addison and after this project they will have 150 feet of Iron "L" structure and go back to concrete. Really they should just do the 150 feet and it would be concrete through Addison. Probably the whole structure up to Howard will be this way eventually, but they are going to really have a headache at Sheridan.

​IIRC, only half the structure at Addison is concrete.

The speculation (at least on the CTA Tattler is how much condemnation is going to be needed to ease the curves at Sheridan, as some said there isn't enough length between the two curves now to improve the station.

[BusHunter]

I don't see a purpose for the Brown Line Flyover(or Ravenswood Rollercoaster, if you will).... I don't know who decided "Hey!!! Let's have the Brown Line go over the Red and Purple Lines so they don't have to wait thirty agonizing seconds for the "Kimball" bound train to leave the North Side Main Line. I could see if trains got held up over ten minutes, fine.... but thirty seconds is nothing.

 

​The main selling point is they can no longer expand service. They probably want to go to 10 cars if they ever build the 130th extension cause they would probably have too many riders for 8 cars. But really all this track straightening would really be helpful on the ravenswood connector. Church curve, the many turns of North/Clybourn, that really slows down the brown line. As the Red line gets more attractive expect it to have more riders and more riders transferring. When I'm in a hurry I ride the Red line. The Brown line has poor connections and goes to the western loop and is slow. That may be good for office workers but not anyone wanting to really see State street or Michigan Avenue.

[BusHunter]

​IIRC, only half the structure at Addison is concrete.

The speculation (at least on the CTA Tattler is how much condemnation is going to be needed to ease the curves at Sheridan, as some said there isn't enough length between the two curves now to improve the station.

​They could always build a flyover!!

[sw4400]

​The main selling point is they can no longer expand service. They probably want to go to 10 cars if they ever build the 130th extension cause they would probably have too many riders for 8 cars. But really all this track straightening would really be helpful on the ravenswood connector. Church curve, the many turns of North/Clybourn, that really slows down the brown line. As the Red line gets more attractive expect it to have more riders and more riders transferring. When I'm in a hurry I ride the Red line. The Brown line has poor connections and goes to the western loop and is slow. That may be good for office workers but not anyone wanting to really see State street or Michigan Avenue.

​You can't go to 10 cars unless you extend across the entire length of the line. All stations would have to be accessible to all 10 cars when berthed. And if you're going to extend the Red for 10 cars, why not the Purple and Brown since they share the track(Purple from Howard to Fullerton when Express and Brown from Belmont to Fullerton. But if you're going that far, you may as well go as far north as Linden for Purple and all the way through the Loop "L" and back to Kimball. And while we're there, you have the Pink and Green who could use 10 cars or will cry they are overlooked for 10 car possibility. And then there's the Blue Line.

This is a wound that is very big and very deep if opened for just one line in particular....

[jtrosario]

​@JTRosario: The one thing that's missing in those documents is a junction configuration. I'd be very interested to see the proposed track layout up to Clark Jun. They are still going to have to lay crossovers and if they make tracks 3 and 4 straight tracks through the junction in order to use the wb brown line track they would have to access it through a crossover crossing 3 to 4 tracks like what they do at Howard. So maybe it would be a mini Clark Jun. only serving tracks 1 and 2.

.

Not that it's really clear to me yet, but here goes:

​From Pages 22-23 of:

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/rpmproject/2015-05-19_CTA_RPM_-_RPB_EA_FINAL.pdf

The second stage of construction would include construction of elements adjacent to the existing track structure. These elements could include the majority of the bypass structure and a temporary track to serve southbound Brown Line trains during construction. The temporary track would be located west of Track 1 (the westernmost track), over the alley that serves properties on the east side of Sheffield Avenue. The work envisioned in the second stage would not, for the most part, include removal of any existing tracks from service, and service would operate on Red, Purple, and Brown lines similar to current operation. During this stage, the following construction tasks would require temporary operational changes:

The temporary southbound Brown Line track would be tied into Track 1 during a limited number of weekends, when Purple Line express trains are not in service. The southbound Brown Line trains would either need to be rerouted to share the northbound Brown Line tracks at the junction and southbound Red Line tracks at Belmont station, or a bus bridge (shuttles) between Belmont station and Southport station would be provided.

Construction of the bypass structure itself over the mainline tracks could require some tracks to be taken out of service and rail service patterns to change. Rail service during this period would provide connections similar to current ones.

While beams for the bypass structure are lifted over the existing tracks, trains on the existing tracks would be held short of Clark Junction until the beam is secured into place. The beam lifts would be scheduled during non-peak hours.

A new switch at the north end of the Belmont station platform, which would tie the current northbound Brown Line track into the bypass structure, would be installed during a limited number of weekends. The northbound Brown Line trains would be rerouted to share the northbound Red Line track, with negligible impacts on service.

A new switch, which would tie the bypass structure into the existing Brown Line tracks, would be installed during a limited number of weekends. A bus bridge (shuttle) between Belmont and Southport stations would be provided.

For construction on the mainline tracks, the third major stage of construction, the conceptual staging plan includes two sub-stages: a western stage and an eastern stage. These two sub-stages would occur after the bypass is operational. Each sub-stage would include construction of two new tracks simultaneously while north- and southbound Red and Purple line trains would operate together on the remaining two active tracks (one southbound and one northbound track). The northbound Brown Line trains would use the bypass and the southbound Brown Line trains would use the temporary track over the Sheffield Avenue alley. Weekend track shifts or a bus bridge (shuttle) between Belmont station and Southport station (for the Brown Line), or Addison station (for the Red Line) may be required on a temporary basis to tie in tracks or install special trackwork.

[artthouwill]

I thought we covered this in a Brown Line Flyover thread.   No matter how pretty the video,  it still is a great waste of money.   It still won't keep SB Purples from waiting for SB Browns.   Spacing out stops north of Wilson will do more to speed Red line service than this. 

[BusHunter]

Not that it's really clear to me yet, but here goes:

​From Pages 22-23 of:

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/rpmproject/2015-05-19_CTA_RPM_-_RPB_EA_FINAL.pdf

The second stage of construction would include construction of elements adjacent to the existing track structure. These elements could include the majority of the bypass structure and a temporary track to serve southbound Brown Line trains during construction. The temporary track would be located west of Track 1 (the westernmost track), over the alley that serves properties on the east side of Sheffield Avenue. The work envisioned in the second stage would not, for the most part, include removal of any existing tracks from service, and service would operate on Red, Purple, and Brown lines similar to current operation. During this stage, the following construction tasks would require temporary operational changes:

The temporary southbound Brown Line track would be tied into Track 1 during a limited number of weekends, when Purple Line express trains are not in service. The southbound Brown Line trains would either need to be rerouted to share the northbound Brown Line tracks at the junction and southbound Red Line tracks at Belmont station, or a bus bridge (shuttles) between Belmont station and Southport station would be provided.

Construction of the bypass structure itself over the mainline tracks could require some tracks to be taken out of service and rail service patterns to change. Rail service during this period would provide connections similar to current ones.

While beams for the bypass structure are lifted over the existing tracks, trains on the existing tracks would be held short of Clark Junction until the beam is secured into place. The beam lifts would be scheduled during non-peak hours.

A new switch at the north end of the Belmont station platform, which would tie the current northbound Brown Line track into the bypass structure, would be installed during a limited number of weekends. The northbound Brown Line trains would be rerouted to share the northbound Red Line track, with negligible impacts on service.

A new switch, which would tie the bypass structure into the existing Brown Line tracks, would be installed during a limited number of weekends. A bus bridge (shuttle) between Belmont and Southport stations would be provided.

For construction on the mainline tracks, the third major stage of construction, the conceptual staging plan includes two sub-stages: a western stage and an eastern stage. These two sub-stages would occur after the bypass is operational. Each sub-stage would include construction of two new tracks simultaneously while north- and southbound Red and Purple line trains would operate together on the remaining two active tracks (one southbound and one northbound track). The northbound Brown Line trains would use the bypass and the southbound Brown Line trains would use the temporary track over the Sheffield Avenue alley. Weekend track shifts or a bus bridge (shuttle) between Belmont station and Southport station (for the Brown Line), or Addison station (for the Red Line) may be required on a temporary basis to tie in tracks or install special trackwork.

​Interesting read, so they plan on building a 5th track and actually have a 6th if you count the bypass. The 5th track sounds like it keeps the sb brown line from entering the junction and joins up where the belmont concrete structure swings west. They will be building the concrete structure at the junction last but instead of doing it one track at a time, they are taking the N-S main approach of closing tracks 1 and 2 and then 3 and 4.

[Busjack]

​Interesting read, so they plan on building a 5th track and actually have a 6th if you count the bypass. The 5th track sounds like it keeps the sb brown line from entering the junction and joins up where the belmont concrete structure swings west. They will be building the concrete structure at the junction last but instead of doing it one track at a time, they are taking the N-S main approach of closing tracks 1 and 2 and then 3 and 4.

​It seemed fairly obvious when jtrosario posted this that they were only talking about temporary alignments during construction, while it seemed you were asking about the permanent track layout. For instance, all the references are to "the temporary track would be located west of Track 1 (the westernmost track)." There isn't any reference that that would be a permanent track to move the junction of the Brown and Purple further south.

Similarly, other than the bypass, and what temporary two tracks for the mainline would be needed, this really doesn't say what the final track map of the mainline will be. For instance, one could argue that contention with the Brown Line southbound would be avoided if the Purple Line goes to Track 2 and into the subway, if the express pattern suggested by the Wilson plan is put into effect (no indication that it will be, however).

[BusHunter]

​It seemed fairly obvious when jtrosario posted this that they were only talking about temporary alignments during construction, while it seemed you were asking about the permanent track layout. For instance, all the references are to "the temporary track would be located west of Track 1 (the westernmost track)." There isn't any reference that that would be a permanent track to move the junction of the Brown and Purple further south.

Similarly, other than the bypass, and what temporary two tracks for the mainline would be needed, this really doesn't say what the final track map of the mainline will be. For instance, one could argue that contention with the Brown Line southbound would be avoided if the Purple Line goes to Track 2 and into the subway, if the express pattern suggested by the Wilson plan is put into effect (no indication that it will be, however).

​Yeah I know it's temporary. It still sounds like tracks 3 and 4 would be straight tracks post construction. The junction would only exist with tracks 1 and 2. But that is kind of smart to build this temp track. It keeps the Brown line out of the junction once they build a bypass. It seems to make the most sense to keep the switch just north of Wellington. If they needed to move from track 4 to 3, they could do it there because there isn't much room for a switch on the concrete structure. But somewhere they are going to have to have a switch for tracks 3 to 2 or the wb brown line 1900's era track doesn't make sense if it feeds to track 2 and 1 only. But that will have to be constructed anyway if they plan on running a track 1 and 2 north and south only operation during the construction. 

[jtrosario]

​Yeah I know it's temporary. It still sounds like tracks 3 and 4 would be straight tracks post construction. The junction would only exist with tracks 1 and 2. But that is kind of smart to build this temp track. It keeps the Brown line out of the junction once they build a bypass. It seems to make the most sense to keep the switch just north of Wellington. If they needed to move from track 4 to 3, they could do it there because there isn't much room for a switch on the concrete structure. But somewhere they are going to have to have a switch for tracks 3 to 2 or the wb brown line 1900's era track doesn't make sense if it feeds to track 2 and 1 only. But that will have to be constructed anyway if they plan on running a track 1 and 2 north and south only operation during the construction. 

​During the third stage of construction, I would guess there's no need for a switch on the existing concrete structure as tracks 2 and 3 from the Belmont station would get "hard-routed" to tracks 3 and 4 on the existing conctrete structure immediately north of the Belmont platform to rebuild tracks 1 and 2/west tracks - meaning in the Belmont stop Brown uses the platform for Tracks 1 and 4 and Red/Purple use the platform for tracks 2 and 3. Like they mention, the temp SB brown line track is tied into Track 1(also at the existing concrete structure at the north end of the Belmont platform).

So operationally during the entire third stage of construction, Purple switches NB from 4 to 3 and SB from 2 to 1 with the existing switches south of the Belmont stop, while Brown gets dedicated NB use of Track 4 plus Flyover(CTA calls this a 5th track) and SB use of Track 1 and "temp track over Sheffield alley"(do we dare call it track 6? Or is track negative 1?)

If still following this line of thought, then when the rebuild shifts to tracks 3 and 4/east tracks then tracks 2 and 3 from the Belmont station get "hard-routed" to tracks 1 and 2 on the existing concrete structure at the northern edge of the Belmont platform.

To make this clearer, the middle tracks on the Belmont platform become the "East Tracks" and later the "West Tracks" for Red and Purple. This has to occur before the edge of the existing concrete structure in order to completely rebuild everything north of there. So operationally during construction, 4 tracks are in continous use, with Red and Purple sharing a track in each direction and Brown getting it's own two tracks(1 new and 1 temp) and 4 platforms are in use, abeit with Purple loading on the Red platform side(like the rest of the RPM project).

Edited May 22, 2015 by jtrosario

[jtrosario]

​Yeah I know it's temporary. It still sounds like tracks 3 and 4 would be straight tracks post construction. The junction would only exist with tracks 1 and 2. But that is kind of smart to build this temp track. It keeps the Brown line out of the junction once they build a bypass. It seems to make the most sense to keep the switch just north of Wellington. If they needed to move from track 4 to 3, they could do it there because there isn't much room for a switch on the concrete structure. But somewhere they are going to have to have a switch for tracks 3 to 2 or the wb brown line 1900's era track doesn't make sense if it feeds to track 2 and 1 only. But that will have to be constructed anyway if they plan on running a track 1 and 2 north and south only operation during the construction. 

​I get your point now, what happens post construction, and why? Well, it seems that the SB Brown track would have a switch into Track 1 as it does now - so what to do about the current NB Brown line track(NW curve) that will be out of use after the bypass gets built. Seems it could be put to good use as a extra equipment holding location for morning rush if it can hold 8-10 cars. If so, I would suggest putting in a switch from that to track 2 (right now it only crosses track 2), and then possibly immediately south of there a track 2 to track 3 single crossover, although that isn't really necessary. This way, in the future, when Red is really crunched in the AM rush a "parked" extra can be brought SB into Belmont empty. Even in this scenario, tracks 3 and 4 could still just be straight tracks.

[BusHunter]

​I get your point now, what happens post construction, and why? Well, it seems that the SB Brown track would have a switch into Track 1 as it does now - so what to do about the current NB Brown line track(NW curve) that will be out of use after the bypass gets built. Seems it could be put to good use as a extra equipment holding location for morning rush if it can hold 8-10 cars. If so, I would suggest putting in a switch from that to track 2 (right now it only crosses track 2), and then possibly immediately south of there a track 2 to track 3 single crossover, although that isn't really necessary. This way, in the future, when Red is really crunched in the AM rush a "parked" extra can be brought SB into Belmont empty. Even in this scenario, tracks 3 and 4 could still just be straight tracks.

​They could always leave clark jun. as is and just don't use the track 4 to extra brown line track west that much, but still they would need that switch to track 2 going south from that extra track or it's existence doesn't serve a purpose. Even a switch to track 1 and 2 would give it a dual purpose.

They should have tried to put an extra track for Wrigley extras. I notice they do that in NY for Yankee Stadium. They could even run an extra few switches from track 1 to feed an extra track more trains. But really the crush is SB exiting not NB but Nb is pretty respectable as the Dempster Yellow line lot does well.

[jajuan]

​The main selling point is they can no longer expand service. They probably want to go to 10 cars if they ever build the 130th extension cause they would probably have too many riders for 8 cars. But really all this track straightening would really be helpful on the ravenswood connector. Church curve, the many turns of North/Clybourn, that really slows down the brown line. As the Red line gets more attractive expect it to have more riders and more riders transferring. When I'm in a hurry I ride the Red line. The Brown line has poor connections and goes to the western loop and is slow. That may be good for office workers but not anyone wanting to really see State street or Michigan Avenue.

​

I thought we covered this in a Brown Line Flyover thread.   No matter how pretty the video,  it still is a great waste of money.   It still won't keep SB Purples from waiting for SB Browns.   Spacing out stops north of Wilson will do more to speed Red line service than this. 

​Thank you Art. No matter how flashy they make the videos compared to what they presented a year ago, it's still a waste of money and highlights extremely bad planning as we discussed last year. If they were so concerned about growing Red Line ridership (which is more likely to still happen on the northern end even without an extension on the south end to 130th given the north end ridership has already been established to outpace the south end and given the north side's higher population density which is continually growing and thus creates a potential for growth on the north end regardless of a 130th extension), not to mention if moving trains through Clark Junction quicker were such a priority, then they would have proposed incorporating this flyover in the original project that reworked Belmont and Fullerton stations as part of the overall Brown Line Capacity Improvement project from just a few years ago. They already showed us that they had their heads in the sand in some way by using substandard wood for the extension of several other station platforms especially those north of Belmont, causing further construction on those platforms to be necessary starting just months after the completion of the original Brown Line improvement project. And I agree with sw that any line going to 10 cars is no where on the horizon, especially when the Dan Ryan South reconstruction finished just a year and a half ago kept all Red Line stations south of Roosevelt at 8-car capacities.

[BusHunter]

As long as there is no 130th extension 10 cars is most likely a dead issue. As far as wood I was looking at California Blue line. It already has cracks in the wood, but it's isolated and the wood is still strong but this is not even a year old yet. Go down to Western Milwaukee and it has more cracks and a few spots where the wood is weaker but not to the point where it will collapse yet, unless it suffers a heavy load. That's one thing I really don't get, why put wood on a structure you don't plan to come back to for heavy reconstruction like the Blue line and at Argyle and these north side stations on the Red they put concrete platforms knowing full well they will rip them up in 10 years. They are probably going to have to redeck these blue line platforms in 10 years.

Edited May 24, 2015 by BusHunter

[Busjack]

​

...... not to mention if moving trains through Clark Junction quicker were such a priority, then they would have proposed incorporating this flyover in the original project that reworked Belmont and Fullerton stations as part of the overall Brown Line Capacity Improvement project from just a few years ago. ,,,,

​One would have said that until what we now know....(1) the Brown Line project was not as represented and (2) the estimate for this project is now more than the whole Brown Line project. I'm sure that the excess cost is all the condemnation, and probably some consultant overreach. If they really have to rip out everything to Clark and Newport, why try to move some apartment building just because some consultant says that's necessary to get past the historic preservation piece of the environmental impact statement?

[BusHunter]

Looks like there was some opposition at the flyover meeting. You know everyone goes on and on about 20 seconds but I think the delay is much worse than that. When it's the rush and Brown's and Purple's get stacked cause some of them can't cross the tracks because of a red line, they are getting the delays down the line too. Wellington, belmont and Clark Jct. are just a smorgasborg of stop signs and it's all in one place within 4 blocks. That may work in the non rush but when demand is high you end up waiting. This is supposed to be rapid transit.

I was over there looking at the tracks and the property lines and if they ran a straight track from belmont nb track 4 straight up that would about cut those property lines in half. How would they build housing on land that only has the space of a residential garage? So I would wonder about the redevelopment options there. They would have to build up. They could always make that a Park N 'Ride. If the city is going to own it i see no problem with that.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-brown-line-flyover-public-meeting-20150603-story.html

Man that tube rendering is ugly. Reminds me of Xenon pinball. "Try a tube shot"

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

...

Man that tube rendering is ugly. Reminds me of Xenon pinball. "Try a tube shot"

​Ugh, why'd they go back to the tube? It looks so out of place compared to the conventional structure in the Youtube video.

[BusHunter]

​Ugh, why'd they go back to the tube? It looks so out of place compared to the conventional structure in the Youtube video.

​Maybe they are worried about noise, but they need to be worried about beauty. Anyway a concrete structure won't make much noise.

[Busjack]

....

I was over there looking at the tracks and the property lines and if they ran a straight track from belmont nb track 4 straight up that would about cut those property lines in half. ..

​As noted before, then you can't run the Purple Line on Track 4. so you don't cure most of the delay. There has to be some way to swing over all 4 tracks, although not necessarily the way depicted in the video.

On the "opposition" point this "meeting" only seemed to be similar to the Pulse "meeting," to create a record for the Environmental Impact Statement, rather than decide something such as the cutback hearings. As I noted in the CTA Tattler, the only effective comment would be one similar to what the retired engineer submitted on the Ashland BRT that the assumptions in that preliminary EIS were bogus. The 50 seconds or 5 minutes one certainly raises that issue, and you'll note that most of the assertions in the press have been modified to "if that part of the city grows like we project...."

[Busjack]

​Ugh, why'd they go back to the tube? It looks so out of place compared to the conventional structure in the Youtube video.

​Engineers are probably just putting alternatives through CAD CAM at this point (note the prior discussion that they might be using Train Simulator). I doubt that there is any money to do actual engineering of a structure.

Also, ugly is in the eyes of the beholder, and the tube looks better to me than some broken down 3200 series train screeching 40 feet over ground level.

[BusHunter]

​As noted before, then you can't run the Purple Line on Track 4. so you don't cure most of the delay. There has to be some way to swing over all 4 tracks, although not necessarily the way depicted in the video.

On the "opposition" point this "meeting" only seemed to be similar to the Pulse "meeting," to create a record for the Environmental Impact Statement, rather than decide something such as the cutback hearings. As I noted in the CTA Tattler, the only effective comment would be one similar to what the retired engineer submitted on the Ashland BRT that the assumptions in that preliminary EIS were bogus. The 50 seconds or 5 minutes one certainly raises that issue, and you'll note that most of the assertions in the press have been modified to "if that part of the city grows like we project...."

​I mean't a track 5 or bypass track, not a track 4. I'm just mentioning it's geography in relation to the belmont stations track 4. That is the exact point east and west the bypass will be built and it will divide those properties in half and the available land will be 50 percent of what it was.

[jajuan]

Looks like the city approved some redevelopment on the west side of Clark between Belmont and School/Aldine starting with the construction of a new highrise for retail and residential use anchored on the corner of Clark and Belmont where the Dunkin Donuts used to be. Wonder how much this may impact flyover plans, if there is any impact since CTA wanted part of that space for the flyover. 

[Kevin]

8 hours ago, jajuan said:

Looks like the city approved some redevelopment on the west side of Clark between Belmont and School/Aldine starting with the construction of a new highrise for retail and residential use anchored on the corner of Clark and Belmont where the Dunkin Donuts used to be. Wonder how much this may impact flyover plans, if there is any impact since CTA wanted part of that space for the flyover. 

No impact. That tower has been planned for a couple years now. 

[jackathan]

Sorry to necro-bump, but the Red-Purple Bypass Project isn't dead.

So far they have built the piers and steel girders for the bypass, it will be open in mid-2021.

Meanwhile, a temporary track is being built, see flyer below.

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

7 hours ago, jackathan said:

Sorry to necro-bump, but the Red-Purple Bypass Project isn't dead.

So far they have built the piers and steel girders for the bypass, it will be open in mid-2021.

Meanwhile, a temporary track is being built, see flyer below.

we all know about this??