Random CTA

[dailycommuter62]

12 minutes ago, cplanner13 said:

Thanks for the response.

Do you by any chance know if older versions of CTA's Night Owl map exist on the internet? How long have they been publishing this particular map?

https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/ctamap_OwlService.pdf

You would probably get the farthest by looking at the route listings on the back of old system maps like this one from '83 that lists all the service times in one place.

[Tcmetro]

26 minutes ago, cplanner13 said:

Thanks for the response.

Do you by any chance know if older versions of CTA's Night Owl map exist on the internet? How long have they been publishing this particular map?

https://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/6/ctamap_OwlService.pdf

The IRM CTA website also has a service pamphlets section. I'm not sure how long the Owl map has been produced, but before 1997 most night routes operated the same paths as the daytime versions.

 

[Shannoncvpi]

8054 broke down on the 63 at Ellis 

[citychris05]

I had a question regarding the former 56A North Milwaukee bus route. It was discontinued in 2012.

I was curious to know why it wasn't terminated sooner. Didn't it and Pace's 270 Milwaukee Avenue route repeat the same service? Or was there some sort of coordination between the two routes?

 

[rl12383]

Looks like they continue to have problems with Green Line service during weekday non-rush hours... Yesterday and today they have been running a shuttle train between Cottage Grove and Garfield instead of full line service on that branch. Wonder when this will end. 

[Mr.NewFlyer1051]

48 minutes ago, rl12383 said:

Looks like they continue to have problems with Green Line service during weekday non-rush hours... Yesterday and today they have been running a shuttle train between Cottage Grove and Garfield instead of full line service on that branch. Wonder when this will end. 

so much for improved schedules that CTA promised 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, citychris05 said:

I had a question regarding the former 56A North Milwaukee bus route. It was discontinued in 2012.

I was curious to know why it wasn't terminated sooner. Didn't it and Pace's 270 Milwaukee Avenue route repeat the same service? Or was there some sort of coordination between the two routes?

 

At one time, nib rush service was coordinated as 270 was an express service  during rush periods, meaning in the  rush 270 stopped only to drop off passengers in the city limits SB and only picked up passengers NB in the city limits.  

CTA then dropped all off peak service leaving Pace to handle the north Milwaukee service solo before eventually giving it up altogether.

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, rl12383 said:

Looks like they continue to have problems with Green Line service during weekday non-rush hours... Yesterday and today they have been running a shuttle train between Cottage Grove and Garfield instead of full line service on that branch. Wonder when this will end. 

If the Ashland branch is running at 12 minute intervals,  this is an improvement that needs to be made permanent.   Waiting 24 minutes for branch service is unacceptable.   Why would anyone want to wait that long when there's a high frequency 63rd street bus to take you to a high frequency Red Line station ?

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, citychris05 said:

I had a question regarding the former 56A North Milwaukee bus route. It was discontinued in 2012.

I was curious to know why it wasn't terminated sooner. Didn't it and Pace's 270 Milwaukee Avenue route repeat the same service? Or was there some sort of coordination between the two routes?

There was also coordination in that 270 left at :00, and 56A at :20 and :40 (later something like :25). CTA gave up the route in the Crowd Reduction Plan (also 90N).

[Shannoncvpi]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

If the Ashland branch is running at 12 minute intervals,  this is an improvement that needs to be made permanent.   Waiting 24 minutes for branch service is unacceptable.   Why would anyone want to wait that long when there's a high frequency 63rd street bus to take you to a high frequency Red Line station ?

Exactly  when people are paying for this slow ass service there is no need for wait times to be that dam long that's a scheduling issue on cta

[citychris05]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

At one time, nib rush service was coordinated as 270 was an express service  during rush periods, meaning in the  rush 270 stopped only to drop off passengers in the city limits SB and only picked up passengers NB in the city limits.  

CTA then dropped all off peak service leaving Pace to handle the north Milwaukee service solo before eventually giving it up altogether.

I appreciate the response.

What is "nib rush service" or did you mean "nb" as in northbound? 

Gotcha, when did CTA dropped its off-peak service? Was it around 2010?

[citychris05]

34 minutes ago, Busjack said:

There was also coordination in that 270 left at :00, and 56A at :20 and :40 (later something like :25). CTA gave up the route in the Crowd Reduction Plan (also 90N).

Interesting, I'll have to see if any of the old timetables for the 270 and 56A routes are available online.

Does a PDF of CTA's Crowd Reduction Plan by any chance exist?

[Shannoncvpi]

Question yall say C & 7 had troubles deploying artics my question is how when they got routes that are the most heaviest  now when it's a blizzard coming yea cause I had a artic when it started slowing bad & just too much of a bus for the back wheels to do all the work 

[Shannoncvpi]

1558 on the 4 still rocking a F sticker 

[busfan2847]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:26 PM, citychris05 said:

I appreciate the response.

What is "nib rush service" or did you mean "nb" as in northbound? 

Gotcha, when did CTA dropped its off-peak service? Was it around 2010?

Thee 56A was originally part of the 56 Milwaukee route. It began 12/11/1914 as the Milwaukee Extension streetcar service from Carmen via Milwaukee to Imlay. In 9/27 began using Imlay terminal. From 10/1/27 thru-routed streetcars Milwaukee/Imlay to downtown. From 5/11/52 Milwaukee streetcars replaced by 56 Milwaukee buses running from Downtown to Imlay terminal.

56 Milwaukee cut back from Imlay terminal to Jefferson Park station, when West-Northwest “L” line opened to Jefferson Park 2/1/70. Service N of Jefferson Park transferred to 56A North Milwaukee. Sunday daytime service withdrawn 9/3/89 replaced by Pace 270. Remaining weekend and Owl service withdrawn 2/2/92 (replaced by Pace 270 SSu). Monday-Friday service withdrawn as part of crowd reduction plan 12/14/2012 – replaced by Pace 270.

[jajuan]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:24 AM, citychris05 said:

I had a question regarding the former 56A North Milwaukee bus route. It was discontinued in 2012.

I was curious to know why it wasn't terminated sooner. Didn't it and Pace's 270 Milwaukee Avenue route repeat the same service? Or was there some sort of coordination between the two routes?

 

 

On 8/24/2022 at 12:15 PM, artthouwill said:

At one time, nib rush service was coordinated as 270 was an express service  during rush periods, meaning in the  rush 270 stopped only to drop off passengers in the city limits SB and only picked up passengers NB in the city limits.  

CTA then dropped all off peak service leaving Pace to handle the north Milwaukee service solo before eventually giving it up altogether.

 

On 8/24/2022 at 12:52 PM, Busjack said:

There was also coordination in that 270 left at :00, and 56A at :20 and :40 (later something like :25). CTA gave up the route in the Crowd Reduction Plan (also 90N).

If I'm not mistaken, I think there may have been further coordination in that I have a memory of Pace having 270 operating limited stops within city limits for a second time similar to how 349 used to do so when 49A still existed operating on S. Western, how 352 and 359 still do on Halsted while running alongside 8A and 108, how 386 does along 63rd alongside the 63W and how 379, 383, 384 and 385 still do on Cicero alongside the 54B. The idea at the time was to better coordinate service where the two where there was service overlap within city limits in areas that Pace fed into CTA rail lines by coordinating the schedules similar to how @Busjack mentioned as well as having Pace buses make only limited stops in those places of overlap with CTA bus routes within CTA limits. That arrangement between 56A and 270 (as well as 49A and 349 for that matter) when 56A ended under CTA's Crowd Reduction plan of December 2012, and CTA turned over the final rush only service of that route over to Pace. Interestingly enough Pace would revive limited stop service on North Milwaukee for a third time when it created the Milwaukee Pulse Line to operate alongside the now local only 270.

[Busjack]

14 minutes ago, jajuan said:

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, I think there may have been further coordination in that I have a memory of Pace having 270 operating limited stops within city limits for a second time similar to how 349 used to do so when 49A still existed operating on S. Western, how 352 and 359 still do on Halsted while running alongside 8A and 108, how 386 does along 63rd alongside the 63W and how 379, 383, 384 and 385 still do on Cicero alongside the 54B. The idea at the time was to better coordinate service where the two where there was service overlap within city limits in areas that Pace fed into CTA rail lines by coordinating the schedules similar to how @Busjack mentioned as well as having Pace buses make only limited stops in those places of overlap with CTA bus routes within CTA limits. That arrangement between 56A and 270 (as well as 49A and 349 for that matter) when 56A ended under CTA's Crowd Reduction plan of December 2012, and CTA turned over the final rush only service of that route over to Pace. Interestingly enough Pace would revive limited stop service on North Milwaukee for a third time when it created the Milwaukee Pulse Line to operate alongside the now local only 270.

I don't think so. Pace didn't have posted stops only in those days, and it was pointed out that the 270 stops were in the same places as the 56A stops were. The restriction was that NB express buses were not supposed to drop off in Chicago, but if someone pulled the cord and leaned on the door, the driver usually let him off.

[jajuan]

26 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I don't think so. Pace didn't have posted stops only in those days, and it was pointed out that the 270 stops were in the same places as the 56A stops were. The restriction was that NB express buses were not supposed to drop off in Chicago, but if someone pulled the cord and leaned on the door, the driver usually let him off.

I might be mistaken in my memory of whether it was the case with 270. But do I remember Pace having limited stops on the 349 starting a short period before CTA killed the 49A, which is why I thought maybe it was so with 270 during the same time frame. And to clarify, when I mention the limited stop policy within city limits that Pace started putting in place some years ago, I'm strictly speaking of the early 2010s, basically 2011 to 2012 roughly speaking. Basically the timeframe between shortly after the Doomsday CTA cuts of 2010 that killed off Archer Garage, all the CTA X routes (crosstown expresses for those who are new and don't know all our local Chicago transit fan terminology), and any further revenue service use of the Flxible 6000s and the cuts and redistribution of CTA service in December 2012 under the crowd reduction plan. Even with Doomsday having gone through, the service boards were still crying broke and pushing for more funding from the state. So CTA and Pace got together and started hammering out service coordination agreements to better use the resources they already had on hand. I wasn't speaking on that earlier timeframe when Pace had the EXPRESS peak direction boarding and disembarking patterns for the 270 as described above by Art.

But on that old boarding pattern, didn't Pace used to have a similar peak time boarding pattern on the 352 north of 127th back when the 108 still had all day service? I know the 359 has long had express service north of 127th, which lasts to this day with the only stop made between 127th and the 95th Street Red Line station being the Metra station near 119th. But my memory of service along the South Halsted corridor before CTA started trimming the 8A and 108 says Pace had 352 rush service north of 127th patterned on an express setup similar to the old express pattern of 270 on Milwaukee between Imlay and Jefferson Park Blue Line.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, jajuan said:

I'm strictly speaking of the early 2010s, basically 2011 to 2012 roughly speaking.

All that was discussed in Pace responds to CTA Crowd Reduction Plan. It wasn't doing anything before then.

The 352 was a much later coordination plan.

[jajuan]

19 minutes ago, Busjack said:

All that was discussed in Pace responds to CTA Crowd Reduction Plan. It wasn't doing anything before then.

The 352 was a much later coordination plan.

Actually on the 352, I was asking whether back in the day long before all the different coordinating we've seen after the crowd reduction plan and all that, whether it ever had that express setup similar to 270 where it was board only in one direction and in the opposite passengers could only disembark but not board. My memory says yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, jajuan said:

Actually on the 352, I was asking whether back in the day long before all the different coordinating we've seen after the crowd reduction plan and all that, whether it ever had that express setup similar to 270 where it was board only in one direction and in the opposite passengers could only disembark but not board. My memory says yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

What they tried doing (in the days of Orion VIs at S)  was run 352X via I-57 from 99th to 147th.

Looks like the change from that to every half mile was in late 2007.

[NewFlyerMCI]

22 hours ago, jajuan said:

If I'm not mistaken, I think there may have been further coordination in that I have a memory of Pace having 270 operating limited stops within city limits for a second time similar to how 349 used to do so when 49A still existed operating on S. Western, how 352 and 359 still do on Halsted while running alongside 8A and 108, how 386 does along 63rd alongside the 63W and how 379, 383, 384 and 385 still do on Cicero alongside the 54B

Speaking of, was anyone ever able to figure out why the 381 lost its limited stop status on 95th btwn Dan Ryan & Western?

[Anthony Devera]

35 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Speaking of, was anyone ever able to figure out why the 381 lost its limited stop status on 95th btwn Dan Ryan & Western?

I believe this happened when the 95W and 381 had coordinated schedules after De-Crowding. But I wonder why this didn't happen with the 63W and 386, or why limited stop service wasn't restored when the coordination was undone with the creation of the 95.

[artthouwill]

56 minutes ago, Anthony Devera said:

I believe this happened when the 95W and 381 had coordinated schedules after De-Crowding. But I wonder why this didn't happen with the 63W and 386, or why limited stop service wasn't restored when the coordination was undone with the creation of the 95.

In the case of 63W and 386 the issue of coordination may have to do with 386 frequency.   Add in higher rush 63W frequencies with the 165 interline and I'm not sure how thar works.

I suppose that eliminating the express service in the city helped 381 become Pace's 2nd busiest route, although a Pulse service will be coming to 95th in a few years.

[NewFlyerMCI]

7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

In the case of 63W and 386 the issue of coordination may have to do with 386 frequency.   Add in higher rush 63W frequencies with the 165 interline and I'm not sure how thar works.

I suppose that eliminating the express service in the city helped 381 become Pace's 2nd busiest route, although a Pulse service will be coming to 95th in a few years.

When did the 381 overtake the 349? 381 still can’t get down to 15 mins headways, unlike the 352 and 349, and the 349 runs more service on Sundays than the 381. Very surprising if ridership increased w/o a corresponding chance in schedule.

Edit: there’s also no real coordination between the 386 & 63W. It’d be one thing in the 386 would actually replace a run on the 63W, but it’s just too infrequent to really matter with half-hourly wkdy headways and hourly weekend ones.

Look at Saturday, the 63W leaves every :12 & :42. The 386? Every :43. West 63rd isn’t particularly wide, and you have the defacto express bus leaving 1 minute behind the local, from the same bus bay?

63W is 12-15 mins on wkdys, 30 mins on wknds. That’s 4-5 buses per hour, 6-7 total with the 386 on wkdys, and 3 total on wkds. They should really sit down and actually coordinate so that there’s a bus going down West 63rd every 10 mins on wkdys and every 20 mins on weekends. The 165 runs shouldn’t even been a real issue, since it’s peak-oriented so that a regular # of buses is going towards Midway