Busjack Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Good to hear!!! I hope the alderman makes so much noise that this will move CTA bosses to start making the necessary changes at FG! Maybe the only question is whether Emanuel is on the hot seat for the next month, although if there is any hot seat it probably will be courtesy of CTU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBusLover Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 #6689 has an updated clever device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I was kind of shocked to read in the Northwest Side Press (Nadig paper Feb 11th edition) according to the 39th ward alderman, Margaret Laurino they are still having problems with noise and pollution at FG. They claim the buses still run all night and they had issues with getting them to shovel their sidewalk, but they finally did it. (I'm assuming the Elston one) According to the paper they want to meet with CTA officials to discuss the noise and pollution in the future. Someone needs to inform the 39th ward, that they have all the oldest buses, probably if they didn't run those buses all night, they probably wouldn't start in the morning. I believe the rehabbed #1000's did have particulate filters installed as part of the rehab, so that still leaves a question of why Fg doesn't have any. They are the only garage now that don't have any. The particulate filters started with the NABIs, and those didn't work. Maybe that's the reason the retrofitted 5800s also were retired early. Particulate filters did not return until somewhere into the 1000s, and that's why the rehab press releases say they are being retrofitted. However, the "bus idling all night" problem was supposedly cured when FG got the buses with preheaters in 2001. Maybe someone should tell garage staff. I don't believe that particulate filters would help.... remember this picture of a New Flyer that supposedly had a particulate filter? That bus was putting out lots of black smoke upon acceleration. I have yet to see a Nova 6400-Series do that(I've never seen any smoke from any of them except 6708 awhile back on #85, when it was putting out a lot of bluish smoke from the tailpipe upon acceleration). The Cummins ISL engines(1630-2029) are supposed to be better emissions than their sister buses(1000-1629), but I don't see them do that. And 1630-2029 had the filters already(Article, fourth paragraph). All Novas have preheaters, as you allude to Busjack. Novas might also have glow plugs, although only CTA Maintenance Staff would know that. And I don't hear complaints from residents around NP about idling buses.... I'm sure they run all day/night there too, since they are an outdoor garage as well. But putting New Flyers or even the newer Novas there will not solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 .... All Novas have preheaters, as you allude to Busjack. Novas might also have glow plugs, although only CTA Maintenance Staff would know that. And I don't hear complaints from residents around NP about idling buses.... I'm sure they run all day/night there too, since they are an outdoor garage as well. ... In 2001, when the switch was done, it was represented that the rehabbed 4400s had preheaters, and hence were sent to NP, while it was also represented that the 1995 and later buses had preheaters, so FG got the 6000s from K. At that time, both garages were stuck with a certain number of Flyers and MANs, but that should have been resolved once the 2002 Novas and NABIs were delivered. North Park also has the benefit of the 80 outlets to plug in hybrids, to at least get the batteries charged up for winter conditions. Both Kedzie and Elston seem to be industrial zones, but I have said before that I didn't understand people buying houses in the new development behind the Forest Glen yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Maybe the only question is whether Emanuel is on the hot seat for the next month, although if there is any hot seat it probably will be courtesy of CTU. Yeah it may be CTU helping keep heat on Emanuel. After the local media reported that Emanuel and Chuy Garcia will be going into a runoff on April 7 they mentioned CTU's backing of Garcia and that between now and the deadlines for the runoff election CTU will be helping register new voters in hopes that it helps Garcia. On BusHunter's point with noise and pollution, I don't think trying to compare a maybe 2008 NF (based on the fleet number it seems to be the most likely point that NF in question was delivered) makes a good example against 2001 and 2002 Novas to counter his point despite the perceived black smoke issue. A 6400 is still under a different emission standard than a 1000 and still probably have more pollutants in its emissions compared to that NF. And the area residents probably still have a point about noise as an idling 6400 is relatively louder than an idling 1000 especially if the 1000 is from 1630 and up. So it's no surprise folks living around FG with nothing but 6400s complain more about noise than those living around NP which is all NFs, standard size and artics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBusLover Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Saw some interesting things this morning, #6432 and #6472 were at south shops and a #6800 was on route 71. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.cta85 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Saw some interesting things this morning, #6432 and #6472 were at south shops and a #6800 was on route 71. 6800 was on 71?? What time was it and do you know if it's still on that route or no?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted February 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yeah it may be CTU helping keep heat on Emanuel. After the local media reported that Emanuel and Chuy Garcia will be going into a runoff on April 7 they mentioned CTU's backing of Garcia and that between now and the deadlines for the runoff election CTU will be helping register new voters in hopes that it helps Garcia. On BusHunter's point with noise and pollution, I don't think trying to compare a maybe 2008 NF (based on the fleet number it seems to be the most likely point that NF in question was delivered) makes a good example against 2001 and 2002 Novas to counter his point despite the perceived black smoke issue. A 6400 is still under a different emission standard than a 1000 and still probably have more pollutants in its emissions compared to that NF. And the area residents probably still have a point about noise as an idling 6400 is relatively louder than an idling 1000 especially if the 1000 is from 1630 and up. So it's no surprise folks living around FG with nothing but 6400s complain more about noise than those living around NP which is all NFs, standard size and artics. The one thing you're alluding to here is that the residents in the area still are complaining about idling buses at Forest Glen, which shouldn't be happening since the Novas, despite their age, have preheaters and perhaps glow plugs(don't know about the latter, just speculation based on common use with diesel engines). But if the preheaters are functioning on these buses and they have batteries with good life in them, there should be no need for idling buses all day/night at Forest Glen regardless of weather. But moving 1000's of any group(1000-1629 or 1630-2029) will not resolve this issue as the staff will just leave them idling too all day/night and as the pic of #1764 shows, the New Flyers with "particulate filters" aren't so particulate as they were conceived to be. I haven't seen a Cummins ISM doing this kind of smoke show yet, and they don't have these particulate filters until their rehab(at least 1000-1629)according to BusHunter. You can't really say that a New Flyer is quieter because if you got a good 30-40 idling in the yard at fast or full idle, it can get quite harmonious there. I don't think any bus(New Flyer or Nova 1st Gen) can idle continuously on their own as all the buses have an idle time out where after several minutes(5-15 I believe), the bus automatically shuts down to conserve fuel and be more environmentally friendly. If the residents and alderman/political bodies want this stopped, I'd say allow the CTA to purchase property and rebuild Forest Glen, perhaps even make an indoor facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 ... If the residents and alderman/political bodies want this stopped, I'd say allow the CTA to purchase property and rebuild Forest Glen, perhaps even make an indoor facility. Problem with that approach is that the alderman is probably not able to come up with the $200 million to do this (based on that CTA would need something twice as big as the proposed Pace NW garage, plus the need to acquire much more expensive property). What you say about the idle timeout makes sense, but I thought Andre posted something about defeating it by having the engine cover open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Well #6834 doesn't have an updated clever device. Whoever gets #6870 I believe will get one as that bus has one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 The one thing you're alluding to here is that the residents in the area still are complaining about idling buses at Forest Glen, which shouldn't be happening since the Novas, despite their age, have preheaters and perhaps glow plugs(don't know about the latter, just speculation based on common use with diesel engines). But if the preheaters are functioning on these buses and they have batteries with good life in them, there should be no need for idling buses all day/night at Forest Glen regardless of weather. But moving 1000's of any group(1000-1629 or 1630-2029) will not resolve this issue as the staff will just leave them idling too all day/night and as the pic of #1764 shows, the New Flyers with "particulate filters" aren't so particulate as they were conceived to be. I haven't seen a Cummins ISM doing this kind of smoke show yet, and they don't have these particulate filters until their rehab(at least 1000-1629)according to BusHunter. You can't really say that a New Flyer is quieter because if you got a good 30-40 idling in the yard at fast or full idle, it can get quite harmonious there. I don't think any bus(New Flyer or Nova 1st Gen) can idle continuously on their own as all the buses have an idle time out where after several minutes(5-15 I believe), the bus automatically shuts down to conserve fuel and be more environmentally friendly. If the residents and alderman/political bodies want this stopped, I'd say allow the CTA to purchase property and rebuild Forest Glen, perhaps even make an indoor facility. Actually I can say that an idling 1000 is relatively quieter than a 6400 because I encounter both on the #9 at Clark/Southport often enough during their layovers there to compare the two while in both fast and full idle. And those 6400s are indeed LOUDER than a 1000 regardless of if the 1000 had an ISM or ISL Cummins engine. So my point stands that BusHunter may be on to something about FG having nothing but 6400s may be contributing to the noise issue the residents there seem to be complaining about. And I still think you're trying to make an unfounded interpretation about what's going inside the inner workings of 2007/2008 built buses compared to those built in 2001 and 2002 when the emission standards were not as clean relatively speaking based on a few instances of some buses maybe not having their filters cleaned. The black smoke issue you keep harping on was not as often as you were making it to be and is no where near as much of an issue now, which they wouldn't want to be the case to begin with when they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to have the NF 1000s rehabbed. I'll go a bit deeper than Busjack's questioning anyone wanting to live in new developments so close to a bus storage facility and question why anyone would want to develop land for residential use so close to said facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusMaster Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Can Someone please tell me why CTA is upgrading older novas with new clever devices if they are being retired soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBusLover Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 6800 was on 71?? What time was it and do you know if it's still on that route or no?? It was during yesterday mornings rush hour, I saw it just leaving the terminal and turning on to 71st street but the blowing snow made it hard to see a number a long with all the traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Can Someone please tell me why CTA is upgrading older novas with new clever devices if they are being retired soon 1. MrCTA85 said that the communications system was being changed, in that the new Clever Device replaces both the old CD and the Orbital emergency texting system. If any bus is going to be in service for any length of time, it needs a way to communicate. 2. Just like the farebox and Ventra reader, the gps is not a permanent fixture of the bus,but is added at the shops to new buses after delivery and usually is taken off buses when they are retired. Those components do not go to the scrapper with the bus. For instance, CTA has not bought a farebox for maybe 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well #6834 doesn't have an updated clever device. Whoever gets #6870 I believe will get one as that bus has one. #6875 does not have an updated clever device either, so FG is still striking out on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajm522 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 6813 was on fire this afternoon. I wonder if that will be the end of the bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 6813 was on fire this afternoon. I wonder if that will be the end of the bus. Did they release the cause of death? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they probably won't try to fix it and it will just get priority scrap status. Well, on second thought, how damaging was the fire before I make that assumption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Did they release the cause of death? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they probably won't try to fix it and it will just get priority scrap status. Well, on second thought, how damaging was the fire before I make that assumption? Here's the story. Looks like it's a goner!! http://abc7chicago.com/news/cta-bus-catches-fire-on-dan-ryan-near-31st-street-/541038/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotjohns Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Burnt on the top of the bus? Yeah, that's heading to the scrapper immediately. I don't even think that's fixable even if it was a new bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethebusman Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Problem with that approach is that the alderman is probably not able to come up with the $200 million to do this (based on that CTA would need something twice as big as the proposed Pace NW garage, plus the need to acquire much more expensive property). What you say about the idle timeout makes sense, but I thought Andre posted something about defeating it by having the engine cover open.NFI's shut down after 15min of not moving. It is defeated by putting bus in "rear run". Novas shut down after 30 minutes. Different garages have different ideas about this. 103rd always has engine doors locked, so you just restart bus if needed. North Park always has engine door unlocked, so for instance on fallback, it is normal to put bus in rear run so it does not shut down, then back to normal when it is time to leave, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 NFI's shut down after 15min of not moving. It is defeated by putting bus in "rear run". Novas shut down after 30 minutes. Different garages have different ideas about this. 103rd always has engine doors locked, so you just restart bus if needed. North Park always has engine door unlocked, so for instance on fallback, it is normal to put bus in rear run so it does not shut down, then back to normal when it is time to leave, And North Park is an outdoor facility, so that would seem to correspond with what the FG residents are saying, taking into account they are doing what NP does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I drove #6813 out of the "Glen". That of course was her first assignment upon delivery. Our Chicago Firefighters could not save her!!! LOL! She Gone!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Was on #6422 on sunday, that has got to be the worst bus at FG!! The brakes were squealing badly when it stopped, like it needed brake pads, just like the old fishbowls used to do. The ventilation system makes this strange whirling sound, which gets really annoying after a few miles and the seats were in terrible shape, they were all broken down. That's like three repairs at least. I think this bus was as bad or worse than the #6439 bus I saw at Chicago. Some of these buses are really shot!! BTW, #6614 is back from south shops. I was on it on the #152 and it's out there today so it's back on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 A few more pictures of #6813. Looks like the firemen were having trouble getting at the engine fire. That bus has a particularly strange engine setup and they might have had to axe there way through the interior to get to it. This first link shows the aftermath, basically the whole back corner side of the bus ended up cooked https://twitter.com/ChicagoDrives/status/572526084559921153/photo/1 Another link at different angles. https://twitter.com/SarahJindra/status/572523375605772288/photo/1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBusLover Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Yesterday while waiting for a bus at 55th and Ashland I saw a CTA Supervisor Driving #6483 with what appears to be a slightly broken right rear axle and not only that the bus had a ticking noise every 2-3 seconds before it would accelerated off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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