More Bus Moves

[Kevin]

I'm sorry I took my last post off the pic I commented on cause I thought that was the nova bus that had the same kind of seats that you see on some of the higher 4000 series artic buses. A few days ago while I was working the 6 I believe I saw a nova bus with those black seats the higher number artics have. I was wondering when did they install those seats on the Novas and will they be doing the same thing once they gut rehab the 1000 series new flyers.

Two Novas got new seats in late 2003 as part of a test to explore alternative seat models. I don't recall the exact numbers. One bus received the CitiPro (which later showed up on the NABI Combo Bus) while another received the Aries (seen in 4150-4207).

RFPs for the 1000-series rehabs called only for replacement of seat inserts.

[Busjack]

Maybe the next order will have a few artics with longtitutional seating that'll get sent to NP who in turn will push it's lower numbered ones out

The question is whether there was any reason for the longitudinal seats in the first place, the only distinction being that those were the stimulus buses. I assume that NP has a mixed fleet in that regard now.

[jajuan]

Given how unpopular the longitudinal seats are on the 5000 series rail cars, I'd be surprised if they went with that arrangement on the next order of artics that are to come behind the new Novas. That they didn't with the 4300s makes me think not even if it's an option reassigned from Seattle.

[sw4400]

Two Novas got new seats in late 2003 as part of a test to explore alternative seat models. I don't recall the exact numbers. One bus received the CitiPro (which later showed up on the NABI Combo Bus) while another received the Aries (seen in 4150-4207).

RFPs for the 1000-series rehabs called only for replacement of seat inserts.

According to your post here Kevin, 6462 has seating similar to 4150-4207. I don't know which other NOVA has the seats that the New Flyer 1000-Series have.

[ChicagoNova]

Well 4064 is at 103rd, working 6 Jackson Park Express.

[jajuan]

So much for not wanting to put 4300s on the 26 because of tight turns. 4336 is on the route right now.

[Sam92]

So much for not wanting to put 4300s on the 26 because of tight turns. 4336 is on the route right now.

4300's were on that route the first day they began service and on the 28 Stony Island.

[qwantae]

So much for not wanting to put 4300s on the 26 because of tight turns. 4336 is on the route right now.

It's because of the sharp right turn on E. 83rd St from S. Commercial Avenue which is one of them.

[Busjack]

Woman shot on CTA bus on South Side.

I bet her south side is hurting.

Seriously, from the description, it sounds about the same as the guy with the multicolor sweater who shot into the bus about 5 blocks east.

Let's hope that the cameras do an equally effective job of identifying the perps.

[pace2322]

It's because of the sharp right turn on E. 83rd St from S. Commercial Avenue which is one of them.

That turn is better with a 4300 then a 1000s i think i should know!

[Busjack]

Ok, how can any turn be better with a 60' bus vs. a 40' bus?

They have a joint in the middle. 30' is less than 40'.

But as I pointed out before 2322 is in the garage and I'm not. I think the same applies to you.

[Kevin]

Ok, how can any turn be better with a 60' bus vs. a 40' bus? Just come out and say "I like 60' buses better than 40' ones." Nobody will think of you any differently for your preference. But to throw out b.s like 4300's turn better than 1000's, you're just losing credibility with that line, pace2322.

Have you operated both 40-foot and 60-foot buses before? Or do you hold your uninformed assumptions higher than statements from an experienced operator?

[pace2322]

They have a joint in the middle. 30' is less than 40'.

But as I pointed out before 2322 is in the garage and I'm not. I think the same applies to you.

That is right it turns like a 30ft bus with the back end just follows you. I like a 60 ft bus better on a good no snow day then a 40ft one. But it it snows well then give me a 40 ft bus.

[jajuan]

That turn is better with a 4300 then a 1000s i think i should know!

Since I saw from your posts that you're now a CTA operator at 103rd, I can accept your word on that since you would be in a position to have driven both models.

[sw4400]

Have you operated both 40-foot and 60-foot buses before? Or do you hold your uninformed assumptions higher than statements from an experienced operator?

I have not. It is presumption based on size difference of 40' vs. 60'. I have withdrawn my post since it has no real merit and apologize in advance to pace2322.

[artthouwill]

Ok, how can any turn be better with a 60' bus vs. a 40' bus? Just come out and say "I like 60' buses better than 40' ones." Nobody will think of you any differently for your preference. But to throw out b.s like 4300's turn better than 1000's, you're just losing credibility with that line, pace2322. You have an additional 20' of bus you have to account for when you make your turns so you don't hit any parked cars or any cars in the left lane or turn lane of the street you're turning onto. Here's an example of where a 40' bus would've been so much easier than a 60' bus. This is a New Flyer D60LF(older model with the Detroit Series-50) that went down a closed street and had to back up down a nearby street to turn around. The whole job took 5 minutes!!! Could you do better than this Operator???

Video

The key to turning a bus is the pivot point. For me, that is the point when my rear wheels will clear the curb when turning right Generally speaking, the shorter the vehicle, the tighter turns get easier. However, once you go longer than 40 ft, it becomes more about the back end of the bus since the pivot point still is the same, but there is more back end. I haven't driven an artic bus, but I believe the principle is the same.

Also, CTA drivers use a turning technique called the buttonhook for right hand turns. Those that trained me to drive strongly discouraged that technique, yet I can see that employed with an artic.

For the most part, in my driving career, I had a preference for the LONGER vehicl. The turning radius generally is tighter, thus better, than the shorter vehicles. I definitely understood why he said a 60' turns better than a 40', length aside.

[Mr.cta85]

As a fellow cta operator I don't see what's the big thing you all are making about artics being used on the 26. Sure there's a difference between the 60 and 40fters as far as turning is concerned but as long as you position yourself right when making turns on the Artics you can make any turn rather if it's the tight turn on 83rd and Exchange or anywhere else. And that's coming from a 103rd operator as well it's all about your pivot point lol.

[jajuan]

4300's were on that route the first day they began service and on the 28 Stony Island.

Which brings up my point that what Bushunter was told by whomever he spoke to was flawed and if turns were a big problem then they would not have has 4300s on the 26 the first few days that they came into service. He countered that Exchange is narrow at 83rd Street and I pointed out that the same applies to Sheridan at Foster just before it widens immediately past the intersection in front of the Dominick's store and the artics from 136, southbound 146, and 147 still make it through fine. The northbound turn there is even tighter but those 136 and 147 artics still make it while 1000s, as much as I love them, have to ease around that turn more slowly than the artics.

And sw, you were out of bounds for trying to challenge 2322's credibility when he is a 103rd garage operator, and if I'm not mistaken in response to my question of which routes he drives he mentioned the 6 was one of them and therefore meaning that he has driven a 4300 bus before as well as 4000s and 1000s. His statement in regard to the artics is correct. 4000s and 4300s make tighter turns than the 1000s because of the artics' joint in the middle. Since you aren't an operator like he is, you have no basis for telling him he's wrong about how the buses compare in making a turn. I'm willing to bet that the prior posts from others that 4300s don't appear to turn as tightly as 4000s are illusions based on most of where they were seen to turn were intersections that have a lot of space to maneuver so the bus doesn't have to bend as much. If anyone who's been downtown should remember is that Balbo is also a tight turn from State Street because of tight and narrow Balbo is between State and Michigan, yet most of the buses on the 6 now during a weekday are 4300s with maybe one or two 1000s. But the 4300s still make it through that intersection with obvious little problems on a daily basis.

[Sam92]

Which brings up my point that what Bushunter was told by whomever he spoke to was flawed and if turns were a big problem then they would not have has 4300s on the 26 the first few days that they came into service. He countered that Exchange is narrow at 83rd Street and I pointed out that the same applies to Sheridan at Foster just before it widens immediately past the intersection in front of the Dominick's store and the artics from 136, southbound 146, and 147 still make it through fine. The northbound turn there is even tighter but those 136 and 147 artics still make it while 1000s, as much as I love them, have to ease around that turn more slowly than the artics.

And sw, you were out of bounds for trying to challenge 2322's credibility when he is a 103rd garage operator, and if I'm not mistaken in response to my question of which routes he drives he mentioned the 6 was one of them and therefore meaning that he has driven a 4300 bus before as well as 4000s and 1000s. His statement in regard to the artics is correct. 4000s and 4300s make tighter turns than the 1000s because of the artics' joint in the middle. Since you aren't an operator like he is, you have no basis for telling him he's wrong about how the buses compare in making a turn. I'm willing to bet that the prior posts from others that 4300s don't appear to turn as tightly as 4000s are illusions based on most of where they were seen to turn were intersections that have a lot of space to maneuver so the bus doesn't have to bend as much. If anyone who's been downtown should remember is that Balbo is also a tight turn from State Street because of tight and narrow Balbo is between State and Michigan, yet most of the buses on the 6 now during a weekday are 4300s with maybe one or two 1000s. But the 4300s still make it through that intersection with obvious little problems on a daily basis.

If turns were that big of a problem on the 26, then artics would never have been on that route in the first place, regardless of rather it's a 7500, 4000 or 4300. All 3 series of artics have been on that route so why is the turn such a big deal now that 4300's are here? I'd say it's more that 103rd sometimes assigns artics to whatever's left after the 6 and 14. I've seen them show up any and everywhere at times especially whem the had 65 artics. They'd show up on routes such as 95E, 34, 119, even the 100 (which barely gets a crowd on optimas.) And I can say that based on the fact that I live in that area and seen this with my own eyes.

[BusHunter]

Which brings up my point that what Bushunter was told by whomever he spoke to was flawed and if turns were a big problem then they would not have has 4300s on the 26 the first few days that they came into service. He countered that Exchange is narrow at 83rd Street and I pointed out that the same applies to Sheridan at Foster just before it widens immediately past the intersection in front of the Dominick's store and the artics from 136, southbound 146, and 147 still make it through fine. The northbound turn there is even tighter but those 136 and 147 artics still make it while 1000s, as much as I love them, have to ease around that turn more slowly than the artics.

In my defense I will say, #4300's on the #26 have run at limited times. I'm lucky If I've ever seen 5-10 in service on that route ever. Of course a bus will get over on that line eventually, (Optimas get on the #84 and that's unusual) I'm just saying it won't be every day. Of course, I don't know the motivations of the operator that told me this, but every person is entitled to an opinion, whether that is flawed or not, which is your opinion. But I still don't believe you'll see them on the #26 in great numbers. The question is if artics are available, why don't they use them on the #26? I'm sure riders on south Michigan would like to know. It's been my experience in the past to see the #26's with standing loads south of Washington, but that was a while ago. Could ridership have plummeted so much since then that they no longer need artics?

[pace2322]

In my defense I will say, #4300's on the #26 have run at limited times. I'm lucky If I've ever seen 5-10 in service on that route ever. Of course a bus will get over on that line eventually, (Optimas get on the #84 and that's unusual) I'm just saying it won't be every day. Of course, I don't know the motivations of the operator that told me this, but every person is entitled to an opinion, whether that is flawed or not, which is your opinion. But I still don't believe you'll see them on the #26 in great numbers. The question is if artics are available, why don't they use them on the #26? I'm sure riders on south Michigan would like to know. It's been my experience in the past to see the #26's with standing loads south of Washington, but that was a while ago. Could ridership have plummeted so much since then that they no longer need artics?

I think once we get more 4300s the 26 will see more 60ft buses, To we get more 60ft buses somedays it hard to make pullout for the 6 and J14 with a 60ft bus. When i pullout around three pm on weekdays all that is left most of the time is 40ft buses, But yet still have 8 to 10 pullouts that need 60ft buses.

[ChicagoNova]

I think once we get more 4300s the 26 will see more 60ft buses, To we get more 60ft buses somedays it hard to make pullout for the 6 and J14 with a 60ft bus. When i pullout around three pm on weekdays all that is left most of the time is 40ft buses, But yet still have 8 to 10 pullouts that need 60ft buses.

Speaking of the #26 seeing 4300s, I just spotted 4331 on the route.

[jajuan]

In my defense I will say, #4300's on the #26 have run at limited times. I'm lucky If I've ever seen 5-10 in service on that route ever. Of course a bus will get over on that line eventually, (Optimas get on the #84 and that's unusual) I'm just saying it won't be every day. Of course, I don't know the motivations of the operator that told me this, but every person is entitled to an opinion, whether that is flawed or not, which is your opinion. But I still don't believe you'll see them on the #26 in great numbers. The question is if artics are available, why don't they use them on the #26? I'm sure riders on south Michigan would like to know. It's been my experience in the past to see the #26's with standing loads south of Washington, but that was a while ago. Could ridership have plummeted so much since then that they no longer need artics?

I would say the ratio of 40 footers to 60 footers on the route being more has in part to do with changing ridership patterns over the years and also in part pace2322's mention of availability of 60 footers in the garage when the route is scheduled to be in service. Those are more plausible explanations than the line you were given that it had to do with turns because as I, Sam and others point out the route has seen artics and still sees them. And other routes with tight turns are in fact artic heavy. If that had any basis, it probably applied more to that operator and his not wanting to drive a 4300 from the sound of things. And as Sam pointed out, 103rd does seem to basically put out what's left after things are assigned to the 6 and J14. His reports of artics on the routes terminating at the 95th Dan Ryan station is backed up by some of my observations of it on BusTracker.

And yeah Optimas have been popping up on the 84 as unusual as it may be. And FG has been consistently letting that occur for the past two to three weeks. If they're going to use these on Peterson, the weekends would be better times for it than how it's been occurring on weekdays. I even rode one Wednesday morning at about 6:15AM heading to Sheridan. I was thinking to myself what the heck is going on with the folks at FG that they don't realize that the midst of rush hour is no time to be letting Optimas on Peterson? They can't be that short of buses. When another operator from another garage boarded at Clark Street, he was shaking his head like he was saying "You should have known better than to let them have you pullout in this tinker toy bus on this route during the rush hour."

[sw4400]

And sw, you were out of bounds for trying to challenge 2322's credibility when he is a 103rd garage operator...

I agree, jajuan. As stated in my reply to Kevin, I did it based on known size of 40' vs. 60' and my presumption that a articulated bus would be more difficult to turn than a standard bus. I was out of bounds on challenging pace2322's credibility and have expressed my apologies in that reply.

[jajuan]

I agree, jajuan. As stated in my reply to Kevin, I did it based on known size of 40' vs. 60' and my presumption that a articulated bus would be more difficult to turn than a standard bus. I was out of bounds on challenging pace2322's credibility and have expressed my apologies in that reply.

Big man to apologize to him and Kevin. That closes that part of the discussion for us. So fresh start and we continue to learn from each other. :)