BusHunter Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, rl12383 said: State/lake elevated station in design, and making progress. CTA press release: https://www.transitchicago.com/mayor-lightfoot-cdot-and-cta-unveil-design-for-state-of-the-art-fully-accessible-new-state-and-lake-cta-station/ Wow cta has really gone canopy happy with this and I thought belmont/blue had a big canopy. It is a flagship station looks like they are trying to make it appear bigger than it is. Should be a tight squeeze. The only place they can really expand is over the street. It would be cool if somehow they could run an elevator between the subway and elevated stations like clark/lake but they would probably have to use prime real estate on state and that would be hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, BusHunter said: Wow cta has really gone canopy happy with this and I thought belmont/blue had a big canopy. It is a flagship station looks like they are trying to make it appear bigger than it is. Should be a tight squeeze. The only place they can really expand is over the street. It would be cool if somehow they could run an elevator between the subway and elevated stations like clark/lake but they would probably have to use prime real estate on state and that would be hard to do. Belmont's canopy was entirely unnecessary if we're really being honest. So is this one, but at least it sort of fits better. Certainly will make those photos more iconic. I also fully agree that this is a missed opportunity to connect the Red Line & the Loop via free transfer, especially considering that this is the busiest station in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, BusHunter said: Wow cta has really gone canopy happy with this and I thought belmont/blue had a big canopy. It is a flagship station looks like they are trying to make it appear bigger than it is. Should be a tight squeeze. The only place they can really expand is over the street. It would be cool if somehow they could run an elevator between the subway and elevated stations like clark/lake but they would probably have to use prime real estate on state and that would be hard to do. If I'm not mistaken. The elevator for the Red Line Lake station is on the Washington end of the platform. The platform for the Loop L needs to be wider, not just at the station house, but on the ends as well. It seems there will still be narrow portions as the stairs and elevators will be on Lake street. I wonder if a bridge connecting the two platforms are really necessary? If I need to get to the other side, it seems e. Clark/Lake has a crossing bridge and Washington/Wabash has a crossing at mezzanine level. asier to just cross at street level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said: Belmont's canopy was entirely unnecessary if we're really being honest. So is this one, but at least it sort of fits better. Certainly will make those photos more iconic. I also fully agree that this is a missed opportunity to connect the Red Line & the Loop via free transfer, especially considering that this is the busiest station in the system. I think if you connected the 2 stations physically, it would drive the costs up insanely. First, the Lake Street Red Line station is really a Washington or maybe a Randolph station. The north-eastern stairway has an extended walkway to make the entrance/exit a bit closer to the elevated station. The entrances to the State/Lake elevated station are all on Lake Street. To connect the two would require tunneling to Lake then on Lake to line up the stairs and elevators on both sides of Lake Street. As I stated in the previous post, I thought the elevator for the Red line station was closer to Washington to facilitate transfers from Red to Blue for accessible passengers. Green and Orange Line accessible transfers can be done at Roosevelt while the other accessible transfers can be done at Jackson Red Line and Library elevated station. As for the canopy, State/Lake elevated is the worst station to wait for a train in the elements. A large canopy might encourage passengers to spread out along the platform rather than congregate by the turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, artthouwill said: I think if you connected the 2 stations physically, it would drive the costs up insanely. First, the Lake Street Red Line station is really a Washington or maybe a Randolph station. The north-eastern stairway has an extended walkway to make the entrance/exit a bit closer to the elevated station. The reason for the long underground walkway is due to the fact there used to be a tunnel between the Chicago Theater & the State/Lake Theater. That tunnel was eliminated by the building of the State St. subway, but there was an indent in the wall showing where it was before they redid the tile walls of the mezzanine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, artthouwill said: If I'm not mistaken. The elevator for the Red Line Lake station is on the Washington end of the platform. The platform for the Loop L needs to be wider, not just at the station house, but on the ends as well. It seems there will still be narrow portions as the stairs and elevators will be on Lake street. I wonder if a bridge connecting the two platforms are really necessary? If I need to get to the other side, it seems e. Clark/Lake has a crossing bridge and Washington/Wabash has a crossing at mezzanine level. asier to just cross at street level Would crossing at street level not require leaving the fare area and re-entering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said: Would crossing at street level not require leaving the fare area and re-entering? Actually yes it does, but it's still a free transfer between the Loop L and the State Lake station (I assume the northern fare entrance. You tap your Ventra card but it doesn't deduct anything. It works the same at the south end of the Red and Blue Line Jackson stations and the Library State/Van Buren. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, artthouwill said: I think if you connected the 2 stations physically, it would drive the costs up insanely. First, the Lake Street Red Line station is really a Washington or maybe a Randolph station. The north-eastern stairway has an extended walkway to make the entrance/exit a bit closer to the elevated station. The entrances to the State/Lake elevated station are all on Lake Street. To connect the two would require tunneling to Lake then on Lake to line up the stairs and elevators on both sides of Lake Street. As I stated in the previous post, I thought the elevator for the Red line station was closer to Washington to facilitate transfers from Red to Blue for accessible passengers. Green and Orange Line accessible transfers can be done at Roosevelt while the other accessible transfers can be done at Jackson Red Line and Library elevated station. Acknowledging that CTA isn't made of money, this is a situation where it's acceptable to eat the cost (if it is indeed as high as you say it would be). If money is the only downside of making a free, accessible transfer, than there is no downside. This is probably the one area where I'd say redundancy (in this scenario, transfers btwn lines in the loop) is ok, and should even be actively encouraged. At the very least, north to west side riders would get to take advantage of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said: Acknowledging that CTA isn't made of money, this is a situation where it's acceptable to eat the cost (if it is indeed as high as you say it would be). If money is the only downside of making a free, accessible transfer, than there is no downside. This is probably the one area where I'd say redundancy (in this scenario, transfers btwn lines in the loop) is ok, and should even be actively encouraged. At the very least, north to west side riders would get to take advantage of this. The way the stations are built, it still requires leaving a fare paying area at one station and entering another fare payment area at the other unless you move the turnstiles at the north end of the Red Line station, build a new tunnel to connect to the Wit Hotel, remove Potbelly and Chick fil A and replace them with a Clark/Lake like setup. That probably requires land acquisition and/or rent lease payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smolensk Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said: I also fully agree that this is a missed opportunity to connect the Red Line & the Loop via free transfer, especially considering that this is the busiest station in the system. As artthouwill has pointed out, there already is a free transfer between the Red Line and the State/Lake elevated station. A Ventra card or ticket is required to enter the L. Just tap the same card that you used to enter the Red Line at the Loop elevated station and no fare or transfer will be deducted from your balance. It's completely free. It works in the opposite direction, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smolensk Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, NewFlyerMCI said: Would crossing at street level not require leaving the fare area and re-entering? At the State/Lake station, if the previous tap on your Ventra card/ticket was at an 'L' station (any station, any line) and within 2 hours, no fare or transfer is deducted. So, while you may need to tap your card again to cross platforms, it will cost you nothing. You don't even have to have a transfer remaining on the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strictures Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 hours ago, artthouwill said: The way the stations are built, it still requires leaving a fare paying area at one station and entering another fare payment area at the other unless you move the turnstiles at the north end of the Red Line station, build a new tunnel to connect to the Wit Hotel, remove Potbelly and Chick fil A and replace them with a Clark/Lake like setup. That probably requires land acquisition and/or rent lease payments. Potbelly & Chik-Fil-A are in the Page Bros. Building which is landmarked, as it's one of the few cast iron front buildings left downtown. The cast iron front is on the Lake St. side, as they though Lake was going to be the main shopping street downtown in the 19th Century. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Long ago I did the state/lake transfer and I was charged, so I dont trust the free transfer, so I go out of my way to transfer. It may take longer but it is a free transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rl12383 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Also- some movement on the cottage grove green line stop. Here is a link from chicago streetscape. Links to a YouTube video from city about the planned station replacement: https://www.chicagocityscape.com/documents.php?document=1565&utm_content=buffer55643&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Smolensk said: As artthouwill has pointed out, there already is a free transfer between the Red Line and the State/Lake elevated station. A Ventra card or ticket is required to enter the L. Just tap the same card that you used to enter the Red Line at the Loop elevated station and no fare or transfer will be deducted from your balance. It's completely free. It works in the opposite direction, too. 9 hours ago, BusHunter said: Long ago I did the state/lake transfer and I was charged, so I dont trust the free transfer, so I go out of my way to transfer. It may take longer but it is a free transfer. This isn't just about free transfer or 1-tap transfer, it's also about accessibility (an elevator btwn the stations as well). I'm aware of the challenges it would take to make this possible, I'm just advocating that it's worth the cost, to me at least. Yes, from a money standpoint, this is probably unfeasible, but I'd like to see a study done on what exactly it would take. As it is now, State/Lake isn't accessible (although I know that'll be rectified b/c of this project) And I agree with @BusHunter, I don't always trust "virtual transfers". The same thing has happened to me at Jackson (Orange to Blue) and more than once with WMATA's virtual transfer at Farragut West/North stations. With Ventra, you still can't even get a transfer using PAYG Apple/Android/Google Pay and/or contactless bank card, something that OMNY has managed to achieve before Ventra despite being younger as a system. CTA needs as many free transfers (without conditions) between train lines as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, rl12383 said: Also- some movement on the cottage grove green line stop. Here is a link from chicago streetscape. Links to a YouTube video from city about the planned station replacement: https://www.chicagocityscape.com/documents.php?document=1565&utm_content=buffer55643&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Dont get why they want to do this. The station is already accessible. There are plenty of stops that could use the attention and money to at least get them to an accessible state. Looking at the project, I cant help but notice the canopies again. It's good cause it gives the station more natural light. Seems funny seeing a new station on such old structure. (1893 era) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, BusHunter said: Dont get why they want to do this. The station is already accessible. There are plenty of stops that could use the attention and money to at least get them to an accessible state. Looking at the project, I cant help but notice the canopies again. It's good cause it gives the station more natural light. Seems funny seeing a new station on such old structure. (1893 era) What got me was the flxibles in the renderings ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 3 hours ago, rl12383 said: Also- some movement on the cottage grove green line stop. Here is a link from chicago streetscape. Links to a YouTube video from city about the planned station replacement: https://www.chicagocityscape.com/documents.php?document=1565&utm_content=buffer55643&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Considering the usage of the Cottage Grove branch, this seems to be a waste of money. That said, my main concern is that the station becomes capable of berthing eight car trains. I also hope the new design doesn't cap off the tracks, leaving open future possibilities for an extension back to Jackson Park. We've also discussed tearing down that branch altogether. Cottage Grove Station as a terminal doesn't work. At least extending the line back to Jackson Park gives tourists options whenever the Obama Presidential Library is built. As planned, this project is putting lipstick and an evening gown on a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 20 hours ago, strictures said: The reason for the long underground walkway is due to the fact there used to be a tunnel between the Chicago Theater & the State/Lake Theater. That tunnel was eliminated by the building of the State St. subway, but there was an indent in the wall showing where it was before they redid the tile walls of the mezzanine. Speaking of old tunnels, there were some other tunnels downtown that existed, but got filled in. One such tunnel supposedly ran under Monroe. I wonder where they are and the dimensions? Perhaps they would have been too small for a subway train, but maybe not. I wonder if those tunnels could be the basis for the defunct Franklin Ave and Clinton Street subways? Wabash would have been a great idea for a subway. To me, these would be additions and not replacements for the Loop L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smolensk Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 9 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said: With Ventra, you still can't even get a transfer using PAYG Apple/Android/Google Pay and/or contactless bank card, something that OMNY has managed to achieve before Ventra despite being younger as a system. That changed a couple of years ago: https://www.ventrachicago.com/featured-questions/ Quote When using a contactless bankcard or mobile wallet to pay, you’ll be charged a pay-as-you-go (PAYG) fare when you board. Transfers are now available between services when using contactless PAYG and are charged at the same rate as when using a Ventra Card. https://www.transitchicago.com/fares/ Quote Transfer between CTA services available when using contactless PAYG and charged at same rate as when using Ventra Card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 21 hours ago, artthouwill said: Considering the usage of the Cottage Grove branch, this seems to be a waste of money. That said, my main concern is that the station becomes capable of berthing eight car trains. I also hope the new design doesn't cap off the tracks, leaving open future possibilities for an extension back to Jackson Park. We've also discussed tearing down that branch altogether. Cottage Grove Station as a terminal doesn't work. At least extending the line back to Jackson Park gives tourists options whenever the Obama Presidential Library is built. As planned, this project is putting lipstick and an evening gown on a pig. You know what would be cool is if they extended the east 63rd branch down to the metra electric and turned it north onto its structure. It could go to 59th or points north and serve many great attractions. MSI, hyde park 53rd, the U of C,. Stony Island, the future Obama library (although that might be a little walk) north hyde park (kenwood academy) condos along 51st/Cornell, the beach. I'm surprised the cta is not tapping into that. It could also serve as a connector for the metra electric. That's alot of people from the south side. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyerMCI Posted June 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 38 minutes ago, BusHunter said: You know what would be cool is if they extended the east 63rd branch down to the metra electric and turned it north onto its structure. It could go to 59th or points north and serve many great attractions. MSI, hyde park 53rd, the U of C,. Stony Island, the future Obama library (although that might be a little walk) north hyde park (kenwood academy) condos along 51st/Cornell, the beach. I'm surprised the cta is not tapping into that. It could also serve as a connector for the metra electric. That's alot of people from the south side. Instant utility from Sept-May could be expanded ridership to IIT which would otherwise require 1 or 2 buses from a ME station in Hyde Park. I'd also complain less about the 28 not going downtown at all times lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannoncvpi Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 8 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said: Instant utility from Sept-May could be expanded ridership to IIT which would otherwise require 1 or 2 buses from a ME station in Hyde Park. I'd also complain less about the 28 not going downtown at all times lol. It could we just gotta wait & see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannoncvpi Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just saw 7900 9ut on the 29 0619211500.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Mishkin Jr. Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, Shannoncvpi said: Just saw 7900 9ut on the 29 0619211500.mp4 Ghost bus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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