CTA 'L' Rosters

[juelzkellz]

10 southbound and 21 northbound (11 in a 7 1/2 span between Howard and North/Clybourn) Red Line trains. I'm sorry but I find that very appalling and a disgrace.....

It's already bad enough to see such segregation on that line.

I wouldn't quite notch this up as racism. When I ride the Red Line out to the south side, and coming from the south side back up north, 9 times out of 10, the train is relatively empty. I.E. I can get a seat AND stretch out and get comfortable. However, when I get around downtown and going north, I'm lucky if I can get a seat. When I get on at Chicago/State, there are times that I can't get a seat until the train reaches Wilson. The other day, I stood all the way until it was time for me to get off at Loyola.

From an operational standpoint, there isn't anywhere the Red Line can short turn without backing things up. Because of this, what starts north must continue south and vice versa. Also, it is easier for trains to arrive and depart 95th/Dan Ryan than it is at Howard. When a train gets to 95th, passengers can get on the train, the driver can switch ends and leave. At Howard, the driver has to walk the length of the train twice to make sure no one is on, take the loop track through the yard and come back over on the southbound platform, and that's if there are no Yellow or Purple line trains in the way and/or layups or putouts to account for. When I look at all of this, I can see how there is an imbalance between the north and south portions of the Red Line. Hope this makes things a bit clearer.

[garmon757]

I wouldn't quite notch this up as racism. When I ride the Red Line out to the south side, and coming from the south side back up north, 9 times out of 10, the train is relatively empty. I.E. I can get a seat AND stretch out and get comfortable. However, when I get around downtown and going north, I'm lucky if I can get a seat. When I get on at Chicago/State, there are times that I can't get a seat until the train reaches Wilson. The other day, I stood all the way until it was time for me to get off at Loyola.

From an operational standpoint, there isn't anywhere the Red Line can short turn without backing things up. Because of this, what starts north must continue south and vice versa. Also, it is easier for trains to arrive and depart 95th/Dan Ryan than it is at Howard. When a train gets to 95th, passengers can get on the train, the driver can switch ends and leave. At Howard, the driver has to walk the length of the train twice to make sure no one is on, take the loop track through the yard and come back over on the southbound platform, and that's if there are no Yellow or Purple line trains in the way and/or layups or putouts to account for. When I look at all of this, I can see how there is an imbalance between the north and south portions of the Red Line. Hope this makes things a bit clearer.

Very understandable statement. Thank you for your input! It just bothers me a lot that this line is the most segregated line. I love to see diversity on both ends (north and south). There were so many occasions that people who are waiting for southbound Red Line trains have to wait awfully 10-15 minutes during rush hour. They used to have some of them terminate at Roosevelt but that was because of the construction on the south side. You are right about the flexibility at 95th compared to Howard.

[BusHunter]

10 southbound and 21 northbound (11 in a 7 1/2 span between Howard and North/Clybourn) Red Line trains. I'm sorry but I find that very appalling and a disgrace.....

It's already bad enough to see such segregation on that line.

I know alot of trains pull in at Howard versus 95th. They really have alot of trains that go north at 5PM. You can see them stacked at roosevelt nb. But they have such a high ridership they could really stand to run two lines through there. It's like that on the blue line too. What are they going to do, leave a hoard of people on the platform? Usually 95th bound headways are not that bad 5-7 minutes max versus about 3 north. You probably just hit a gap in service but things are probably not going to be much better now that the Purple line will be slowing down the Red line up north.

I was kind of tee'd off last week when they had switching issues at Rosemont. The next train was like 13 minutes away. Then some guy comes on the PA saying the next three trains will run express first to Damen, second to Logan, third to Belmont, so I was stuck waiting at Addison. So I figured hell I might as well ride to Jeff Pk cause I know that's where they'll express from. So the Nb train I was on stops at Montrose waiting for signals ahead for like 5 minutes. While we waiting I saw my express trains I could've been on whiz by. So after waiting 5 minutes at Montrose this train gets to Jeff and he says he will run express to rosemont. I was like wth? So bottom line I ended up on the fourth train anyway, about a 35 minute wait.

[juelzkellz]

Very understandable statement. Thank you for your input! It just bothers me a lot that this line is the most segregated line. I love to see diversity on both ends (north and south). There were so many occasions that people who are waiting for southbound Red Line trains have to wait awfully 10-15 minutes during rush hour. They used to have some of them terminate at Roosevelt but that was because of the construction on the south side. You are right about the flexibility at 95th compared to Howard.

I understand where you're coming from though. I find it very annoying after I leave my cousin's restaurant after the 36 stops running downtown waiting at Loyola for the Red Line going south. Loyola's goofy platform arrangement adds insult to injury when it's below zero outside at night.

As far as the line being segregated. I wouldn't say it's so much as racism than people just going where they are familiar. I have family members that I have to go zero dark thirty on them to get them to come up north with me. lol Also, during rush hour, I have to make my way to my cousin's restaurant to help him out. Calling northbound Red Line trains from downtown during PM rush packed is an understatement! lol There are many times where I have to let two or three trains pass before I can get on. The ones I can get on, we're literally packed in like sardines. Can't move in any direction if you wanted to. If you're standing next to a woman, you're at second base whether you wanted to or not! loljk I'm toying with the idea of just taking the 147 to go up north during rush hour. It's not as packed and sometimes you can get a seat!

[Busjack]

Trying to synthesize the above 5 posts, they seem to go more to the issue raised by some group a couple of years ago that the north and south sides of the Red Line have unbalanced passenger loads, even though (1) Howard was really unbalanced compared to Jackson Park and Englewood, and (2) the Dan Ryan should have come back somewhat when it was rebuilt. juelz points out that there isn't a real good place to reverse at Roosevelt, although it could be done. I thought someone said that most of the switching ends, including on Harlem Green Line trains that only go to Roosevelt, is somewhere near 35th-Bronzeville.

From Garmon is describing, it seems like CTA has concluded that inbound traffic is lighter from Howard and outbound traffic from downtown to 95th is also light, and from what BusHunter is saying, more trains have to get back to Howard.

I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't more commotion about short turning Blue Line trains at UIC.

As far as diversity on both sides of the line, it depends who lives there. There are Black neighborhoods around Uptown, and certainly north of Howard, and areas in south and west Evanston are Black. I was somewhat surprised the first time I rode the Orange Line that most of the riders where White.

On the Red Line south, one probably has to take into account that most neighboring housing (Stateway Gardens and Robert Taylor) has been demolished, without replacement, although I don't know how many of the residents commuted on the L.

[juelzkellz]

I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't more commotion about short turning Blue Line trains at UIC.

West of UIC, the Blue Line trains are fairly empty. Also, there's quite a few paralling bus lines and the Green and Pink lines relatively nearby so there's no reason to raise commotion. People have multiple ways of getting around in an reasonably efficient manner out West. And I forgot the BNSF and UP-W are also relatively nearby if push came to shove.

[briman94]

I was taking the orange line from the loop to Roosevelt today, but had extra time and the weather was nice so I decided I'd just go to Midway for the fun of it and then come right back. Boy am I glad I went...you guys won't believe what I saw pull in next to me at Midway:

That's a full 8-car consist of 5000s there for ya. It pulled into the yard partway right as my train left again. 5000s on Orange Line soon, possibly?

[TheBrunswickBowler]

I was taking the orange line from the loop to Roosevelt today, but had extra time and the weather was nice so I decided I'd just go to Midway for the fun of it and then come right back. Boy am I glad I went...you guys won't believe what I saw pull in next to me at Midway:

That's a full 8-car consist of 5000s there for ya. It pulled into the yard partway right as my train left again. 5000s on Orange Line soon, possibly?

Awesome! Finally some 5000's in Midway Yard!

[Busjack]

Awesome! Finally some 5000's in Midway Yard!

I don't know if there is any significance that the consist was of the low numbers (presumably from the Green Line).

[briman94]

Awesome! Finally some 5000's in Midway Yard!

Actually, when I was walking out from Jewel, I saw them running inbound at Roosevelt not in service. I didn't see them return from the loop, but I'm guessing they probably went to Kimball for training. Otherwise I don't know why they pulled in and immediately left.

[briman94]

I don't know if there is any significance that the consist was of the low numbers (presumably from the Green Line).

It seems like what they might be doing is taking all the high numbers and keeping them up North as they're delivered and then shoving the lower ones to Green, and now they appear to possibly be taking some from Green to Orange...not sure what logic the CTA is following but it's definitely confusing.

[artthouwill]

Trying to synthesize the above 5 posts, they seem to go more to the issue raised by some group a couple of years ago that the north and south sides of the Red Line have unbalanced passenger loads, even though (1) Howard was really unbalanced compared to Jackson Park and Englewood, and (2) the Dan Ryan should have come back somewhat when it was rebuilt. juelz points out that there isn't a real good place to reverse at Roosevelt, although it could be done. I thought someone said that most of the switching ends, including on Harlem Green Line trains that only go to Roosevelt, is somewhere near 35th-Bronzeville.

From Garmon is describing, it seems like CTA has concluded that inbound traffic is lighter from Howard and outbound traffic from downtown to 95th is also light, and from what BusHunter is saying, more trains have to get back to Howard.

I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't more commotion about short turning Blue Line trains at UIC.

As far as diversity on both sides of the line, it depends who lives there. There are Black neighborhoods around Uptown, and certainly north of Howard, and areas in south and west Evanston are Black. I was somewhat surprised the first time I rode the Orange Line that most of the riders where White.

On the Red Line south, one probably has to take into account that most neighboring housing (Stateway Gardens and Robert Taylor) has been demolished, without replacement, although I don't know how many of the residents commuted on the L.

As far as the Green Line short turns, those are done on the middle track just south of Roosevelt. That track can actrually berth two 8 car consists if necessary. The middle track south of 35th was the short turn for Brown Line trains running through the subway. Howver it seems the last time this was done, some Browns went all the way to 95th Red Line.

[artthouwill]

I was taking the orange line from the loop to Roosevelt today, but had extra time and the weather was nice so I decided I'd just go to Midway for the fun of it and then come right back. Boy am I glad I went...you guys won't believe what I saw pull in next to me at Midway:

That's a full 8-car consist of 5000s there for ya. It pulled into the yard partway right as my train left again. 5000s on Orange Line soon, possibly?

It seems inevitable that some 5000s should wind up on the Orange Line. After all there won't be much more room to store them on the Red or Green Lines and Pink runs with minimal capacity. This should give them some cars while the 3200s get rehabbed and hopefully after rehab, those cars will see action on the Blue Line/

[juelzkellz]

It seems inevitable that some 5000s should wind up on the Orange Line. After all there won't be much more room to store them on the Red or Green Lines and Pink runs with minimal capacity. This should give them some cars while the 3200s get rehabbed and hopefully after rehab, those cars will see action on the Blue Line/

I think it's going to be #2600's to the end on the Blue Line. Because of the lack of connections to the rest of the system, it just seems like too much of a hassle to relocate all of the equipment and parts to Rosemont and Forest Park. Also, looking at past history, it seems like whatever equipment gets assigned to the Blue Line more often tends to stay there until it's retired.

As far as the Orange Line, unless they store the rest of the #5000's that is the only place they can go. If it were me, I would put the on the Brown Line despite their horrible seating, they can hold a lot more people and the Brown Line needs capacity in spades.

[juelzkellz]

It seems like what they might be doing is taking all the high numbers and keeping them up North as they're delivered and then shoving the lower ones to Green, and now they appear to possibly be taking some from Green to Orange...not sure what logic the CTA is following but it's definitely confusing.

Not really, the Green Line is closer to the Orange Line and it makes sense to move equipment in a linear fashion. I.E. The brand new equipment fresh from Skokie stays up north which in turn sends that displaced equipment to the West/Green/Pink. Which in turn sends their equipment to the Orange. Hope that makes sense.

[artthouwill]

I think it's going to be #2600's to the end on the Blue Line. Because of the lack of connections to the rest of the system, it just seems like too much of a hassle to relocate all of the equipment and parts to Rosemont and Forest Park. Also, looking at past history, it seems like whatever equipment gets assigned to the Blue Line more often tends to stay there until it's retired.

As far as the Orange Line, unless they store the rest of the #5000's that is the only place they can go. If it were me, I would put the on the Brown Line despite their horrible seating, they can hold a lot more people and the Brown Line needs capacity in spades.

If you remember the 2200s, they were belly cars while the 2600s were the end cars of an 8 car consist. Certainly the same can be done with 3200s as end cars and 2600s as belly cars on the Blue Line. There will be 2600s that get retired soon and the majority of the first set are currently on the Blue Line now.

[briman94]

I was thinking, could they possibly be "testing" the 5000s again on Orange and Blue to see where they might fit best? Possibly to see which drivers prefer them? Sending a consist of 5000s to the NW blue line is quite an adventure especially given the amount of 2600s they have available...I doubt they'd just randomly do that without a point.

[artthouwill]

I was thinking, could they possibly be "testing" the 5000s again on Orange and Blue to see where they might fit best? Possibly to see which drivers prefer them? Sending a consist of 5000s to the NW blue line is quite an adventure especially given the amount of 2600s they have available...I doubt they'd just randomly do that without a point.

You could stock the entire Orange Line with the remainder of deliveries of the 5000s. That would be the logical choice.

[briman94]

You could stock the entire Orange Line with the remainder of deliveries of the 5000s. That would be the logical choice.

I agree, but why on earth would they send a 5000 up to O'Hare? It was reported to be low numbers, so it probably came from the Pink line. That means going from the pink line yard down the non-revenue slope to the Forest Park branch, and then all the way up to the Rosemont Yard...that's a long journey for seemingly no point.

[Busjack]

You could stock the entire Orange Line with the remainder of deliveries of the 5000s. That would be the logical choice.

I really doubt that because the Midway Yard allocation is about 150, and there are only about 70-80 deliveries left. Don't forget the Brownages.

It could have been done when NBC5 first said that the Orange Line was going to get some, but the bloat resulting in the first 630+ to the Pink, Green, Purple and Yellow lines, and corresponding slow retirements of the 2200s-2600s indicates that isn't going to happen. If there is any logical thesis, anything to Orange would be to fill in for 3200s while in the shop.

[Busjack]

If you remember the 2200s, they were belly cars while the 2600s were the end cars of an 8 car consist. Certainly the same can be done with 3200s as end cars and 2600s as belly cars on the Blue Line. There will be 2600s that get retired soon and the majority of the first set are currently on the Blue Line now.

Only reason to have done that was that the 2200s were not ADA compliant.

From the 7000s specs, 400 7000s are needed to replace 2600s, and I don't think that the Blue line is quite up to 400 cars. Prior rosters were about 340.

[BusHunter]

#3377-78 is on the orange line

[chgofan78]

I don't know if it is just me or not, but it seems majority of the 2600-series cars have disappeared from the Red and Purple Lines- unless they are all down on the south end. Today, all I literally saw at Howard yard was 2921-2922 which is covered in graffiti and 2785-2786. I've seen nothing but 5000-series cars on the Purple Line this week including all the 5400s currently assigned to the Red Line. If that is the case, then it allows for more 5000-series cars to come to the Red Line because that would put the current roster at 344 cars.

[Rahm's denim shirt]

I don't know if it is just me or not, but it seems majority of the 2600-series cars have disappeared from the Red and Purple Lines- unless they are all down on the south end. Today, all I literally saw at Howard yard was 2921-2922 which is covered in graffiti and 2785-2786. I've seen nothing but 5000-series cars on the Purple Line this week including all the 5400s currently assigned to the Red Line. If that is the case, then it allows for more 5000-series cars to come to the Red Line because that would put the current roster at 344 cars.

Currently riding 2786 on Red Line run 813.

[i8itall4u]

Monday morning the majority of cars in 98th Yard were 2600s. I've seen more of them in service on the Red line this week.