More Bus Moves

[BusHunter]

She's just depressed after watching the Cubs last week.

[Busjack]

She's just depressed after watching the Cubs last week.

That's Sox territory.

[BusHunter]

That's Sox territory.

Then she's really depressed!!

[briman94]

I know, it seems really weird to me too. But it's happened at least a half dozen times in the last month. Driver goes overspeed, beeper sounds, driver doesn't brake soon enough, brakes apply automatically and beeper keeps sounding, driver does something that resets the beeper and allows them to take power without stopping first but the signs move down one and back up.

On a Brown Line that did this twice between Rockwell and Belmont right now...very consistent and multiple drivers have been doing this to cancel penalty stops. I think it's so they can keep accelerating for 2.5 seconds after ATC beeps to get more speed built up, and then don't brake quite fast enough. 

[andrethebusman]

From the description it sounds like what is happening is that operator is quickly centering the reverser key, then pushing it back to forward. This momentarily shuts off the controls, when goes back on the penalty brake application is cancelled and  you can go back from Brake 3 into power without stopping. This would also explain signs moving. When controller is shut off and then turned on again, the signs tend to "hunt" because the sign setting switches also go off and back on, and when they go back on they start "looking" for the correct sign to set. This is also why sometimes you see signs moving up and down for no apparent reason - the sign locating mechanism in that car is losing power momentarily and when power comes back it "looks" for the correct sign by going up and down the curtain. Lights do not go off because light circuit is not connected to control circuit but is always on, so lights stay on until somebody actually turns them off. Anyway, I did not think this little trick was possible because on the older cars it took too much time to reset the controls, but apparently on the newer cars the reverser is loose enough so you can switch it on and off really quickly. I'll bet management would have a cow about this, though.

[briman94]

From the description it sounds like what is happening is that operator is quickly centering the reverser key, then pushing it back to forward. This momentarily shuts off the controls, when goes back on the penalty brake application is cancelled and  you can go back from Brake 3 into power without stopping. This would also explain signs moving. When controller is shut off and then turned on again, the signs tend to "hunt" because the sign setting switches also go off and back on, and when they go back on they start "looking" for the correct sign to set. This is also why sometimes you see signs moving up and down for no apparent reason - the sign locating mechanism in that car is losing power momentarily and when power comes back it "looks" for the correct sign by going up and down the curtain. Lights do not go off because light circuit is not connected to control circuit but is always on, so lights stay on until somebody actually turns them off. Anyway, I did not think this little trick was possible because on the older cars it took too much time to reset the controls, but apparently on the newer cars the reverser is loose enough so you can switch it on and off really quickly. I'll bet management would have a cow about this, though.

I've only noticed it on the 3200s. I don't think you can move the reverser on the 5000s if it's in motion (or rather, if the MC is not in "Off"), and even if they did, you have to re-login to the TOTS before the train would move again. I see it happen with the 3200s almost every day though...seems a bit hazardous to me. Even just the fact that they're abusing the 2.5 second delay to accelerate beyond the speed limit as long as possible is a bit concerning...I did that in Train Simulator and flew off the structure in the loop! 

EDIT: Forgot to also mention that it does sound like they are moving some sort of larger lever whenever this happens, so I think your theory about the reverser lever is correct. That's terrifying that they're throwing it into neutral and back while travelling at high speeds...jeez!

Edited October 30, 2015 by briman94

[Busjack]

...

EDIT: Forgot to also mention that it does sound like they are moving some sort of larger lever whenever this happens, so I think your theory about the reverser lever is correct. That's terrifying that they're throwing it into neutral and back while travelling at high speeds...jeez!

Sounds like the description of how they got the Sprague cars to coast to a stop by throwing the reverser to open, although the books say you could hear it pop under the seat. At least Andre provided the explanation for why the signs were also affected.

[briman94]

Sounds like the description of how they got the Sprague cars to coast to a stop by throwing the reverser to open, although the books say you could hear it pop under the seat. At least Andre provided the explanation for why the signs were also affected.

You mean these cars? Why was that necessary to coast?  Was it not possible to just cut power and not apply the brakes?

[Busjack]

You mean these cars? Why was that necessary to coast?  Was it not possible to just cut power and not apply the brakes?

Nope. I should have been more specific, but I meant the wooden MU cars on the South Side Rapid Transit. The description is in CERA 115 page 171. On page 172 it points out that the master controller could be put in coast* and the pilot motor (on the controller on each car) would run the controller to off, or the master controller  to off, which would  open the reverser. The reverser could then be put in reverse to stop the train. The book pointed out that the reverser methods caused arcs, and reversing the reverser would blow a fuse or a motor.

Sprague referred to Frank Sprague, who invented MU at GE.

*I had it backwards, an in fact it sounds bass ackward.

[Pace831]

Does anybody really know what time it is, does anybody really care...

[Busjack]

Does anybody really know what time it is, does anybody really care...

When I click on this, it is upside down, but anyway...

The CTA Tattler has noted the "time difference" between Evanston and Chicago for several years now.

[briman94]

When I click on this, it is upside down, but anyway...

The CTA Tattler has noted the "time difference" between Evanston and Chicago for several years now.

It's all the millennials; they've made their own time zone now.

[Pace831]

When I click on this, it is upside down, but anyway...

The CTA Tattler has noted the "time difference" between Evanston and Chicago for several years now.

Wow you're right, they beat me to that joke 3 years ago! I can't believe CTA hasn't synchronized the clocks yet.

As for the picture being upside down, that's happened before and I have no idea why, since they look fine to me.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Nope. I should have been more specific, but I meant the wooden MU cars on the South Side Rapid Transit. The description is in CERA 115 page 171. On page 172 it points out that the master controller could be put in coast* and the pilot motor (on the controller on each car) would run the controller to off, or the master controller  to off, which would  open the reverser. The reverser could then be put in reverse to stop the train. The book pointed out that the reverser methods caused arcs, and reversing the reverser would blow a fuse or a motor.

Sprague referred to Frank Sprague, who invented MU at GE.

*I had it backwards, an in fact it sounds bass ackward.

Sounds a little bit like what I'd do in Microsoft Train Simulator to slow down faster when I thought I was going to overshoot a platform. 

[Busjack]

Sounds a little bit like what I'd do in Microsoft Train Simulator to slow down faster when I thought I was going to overshoot a platform. 

Maybe you need the berthing system even before CTA gets it.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Maybe you need the berthing system even before CTA gets it.

I've gotten better since then. It helps to have train-like controls (Raildriver) as opposed to a keyboard.

[briman94]

Sounds a little bit like what I'd do in Microsoft Train Simulator to slow down faster when I thought I was going to overshoot a platform. 

Hahaha. I'm guilty of it in RailWorks too, except I actually found out that the emergency stopping rate on the 5000s is >5 MPH/s, and calibrated the track brakes to match that in the simulator, and that is plenty fast to stop from any speed unless you're going like...55 MPH at the start of the platform. And I've been on real trains that have done that. Multiple times.

[jajuan]

Has anyone else noticed the new Clever Device announcements. In addition they now run across the screen at the front of the bus? I've heard them mainly on 3,4, 8 and 146. The 146 has a new announcement about benifits of using CTA. 

I noticed this morning that restoration of flashing key transfers at certain stops have just recently been added to what you observed. But it's kind of wonky for rail transfers for some reason this morning. While riding 1739 on the  SB #9 this morning, at Cortland it flashed "XFER METRAE TO RAREAL" for "XFER TO METRA RAIL"; at Division it showed something like " XFER TO BLUE LINEREAL" for the Blue Line transfer; and at Lake "XFER TO GREEN LINEREAL". It displayed its message for connecting with UIC Hospital correctly at Taylor though.

[Busjack]

Peopleofthecta.com has an interesting photo taken at Howard.

http://www.peopleofthecta.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/10443730_647579411998095_968724636_n.jpg

 

Others of noted that before, and at the time I indicated that Evanston must be in another time zone.

 

...

It is more messed up than that. Out of the 12 signs 3 are off: 2 at the south end and one in the middle. None of the 3 have the same time. How can that happen?

[wordguy]

It looks as if at least 10 of Chicago Avenue's 17 remaining old Novas have migrated to FG.

According to Maths22's bus tracker,   most of the Novas in the 6798-6810 range are showing up on various FG routes.

The higher-numbered ones from C  haven't appeared yet as of Saturday morning.

[briman94]

 

It is more messed up than that. Out of the 12 signs 3 are off: 2 at the south end and one in the middle. None of the 3 have the same time. How can that happen?

Power outage and they all reset at different times?  They probably don't get synchronized time, or maybe they do and those three are disconnected for one reason or another. There is an article somewhere here about having to wait 8 years for a Red Line train, regarding a sign that said something like 4 million minutes to the next Howard-bound train. It thought it was 01/01/2007 or something like that.

Edited November 7, 2015 by briman94

[BusHunter]

It looks as if at least 10 of Chicago Avenue's 17 remaining old Novas have migrated to FG.

According to Maths22's bus tracker,   most of the Novas in the 6798-6810 range are showing up on various FG routes.

The higher-numbered ones from C  haven't appeared yet as of Saturday morning.

Hmm interesting, then where are the spares for the X routes? The highest ex chicago bus at Fg is #6810 that I've seen so far. Fg definitely has everything now below #6820

Edited November 7, 2015 by BusHunter

[strictures]

Power outage and they all reset at different times?  They probably don't get synchronized time, or maybe they do and those three are disconnected for one reason or another. There is an article somewhere here about having to wait 8 years for a Red Line train, regarding a sign that said something like 4 million minutes to the next Howard-bound train. It thought it was 01/01/2007 or something like that.

The clocks at Howard have been wrong like that for almost an entire year.

I wonder if they replaced the large analog clocks in the customer attendant's booth at Dempster in Skokie or the one in the booth at Linden. Neither has worked for at least a year either.

[Busjack]

Power outage and they all reset at different times?  They probably don't get synchronized time, or maybe they do and those three are disconnected for one reason or another. There is an article somewhere here about having to wait 8 years for a Red Line train, regarding a sign that said something like 4 million minutes to the next Howard-bound train. It thought it was 01/01/2007 or something like that.

Difference is that the Train Tracker sign there works off the API, so presumably the server sent it garbage (unless the sign sent the server a garbage command). These are just LED signs with the time and other scrolling messages like stay away from the edge of the platform, so I don't know what drives them, other than that I would presume that they should be connected to some data link that has universal time. 9 out of the 12 worked.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Busjack

[fg.mark]

It would be about time that C sent those buses back because it was not fair that C was hoarding the old equipment instead of sending it where it is needed.  If C wants to hoard the 6400's so badly, then they should have kept the flip dot ones.  Anything less borders on discrimination (let's get the new buses but also let's keep the best of the older ones and stick the really old ones to FG).