Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[ChicagoNova]

it kinda reminds me of the Howard-Englewood-Jackson Park routing that Cta ran till '93 .But this is every Cta railfans dream come true.!!!! "not the shutdown but the reroute"

Even I remember that route where trains used to travel between Howard and 63rd/Ashland or 63rd/Stony Island While trains going to/from Harlem/Lake were going on the Dan Ryan to 95th. It's interesting that those trains from Howard are rerouted to go to 63rd/Ashland for the first time in many years.

[artthouwill]

I was reading one of the stories on the feedback CTA officials were getting from the latest

forum that was held. I can understand the riders frustration that their rail line will be shut down for a few months. But already one person is turning this into a race issue stating that "this wouldnt happen on the Brown Line", "in a white neighborhood". Race has nothing to do with this project. All this is going to do is stir up anger and protest in the black community and then you will see the faces of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton protesting, adding more fuel to the fire. All it will do is delay the project to many south side riders. This issue about "race" needs to stop. It is an improvement for Red line riders as well as many other riders, south siders should be happy that their line is being made safer and faster. This is only a five month project! I hope Im not offending my African American transit fans here, If I did, I apologize, but I dont see why someone has to turn this into an issue about race! This will be to the benefit of south side transit riders!

To set the record straight, I noted that someone at the hearing last night brought the subject up and that person, not me, said that a shutdown like this woyld never happen in a White neighborhood. As someone else noted, the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line had several weekends of shutdowns for tie replacement but no months of a partial shutdown on any weekday. Certainly that project could've been done faster with a complete shutdown, but that didn't happen. The Pink Line (when it was the 54/Cermak branch of the Blue) only had weekend shutdowns as that branch was rebuilt. Only the Green Line (which runs through predominantly African Amercan neighborhoods, and the South Side Red, which also runs through a predominantly African American neighborhood have been recommended for complete shutdowns. If your neighborhood was the only one consistently targeted for shutdowns you would ask why? Even though we know the repair work is needed, why did CTA let the Green Line and now the South Side Red get in such a bad state that shutdowns are necessary? This projects dire need surpassed the North Sides Red and Purple Lines need for a rebuild, and I promise the Nort Side main ans Purple Line is just as slow.as the South. The only reason they say the South has the highest sli zone trackage is because the count the Red and Purple on the North separate, but the truth is they share the same infrastructure and when it comes time to do the North side, you have to do both together.. The race issue will never go away because this is Chicago, but you would.ve heard nothi

ng yet if CTA finds a way to do the NSM without a similar shutdown.

Btw, that gentlenan's remarks received the largest applause.

[Guest]

To set the record straight, I noted that someone at the hearing last night brought the subject up and that person, not me, said that a shutdown like this woyld never happen in a White neighborhood. As someone else noted, the O'Hare branch of the Blue Line had several weekends of shutdowns for tie replacement but no months of a partial shutdown on any weekday. Certainly that project could've been done faster with a complete shutdown, but that didn't happen. The Pink Line (when it was the 54/Cermak branch of the Blue) only had weekend shutdowns as that branch was rebuilt. Only the Green Line (which runs through predominantly African Amercan neighborhoods, and the South Side Red, which also runs through a predominantly African American neighborhood have been recommended for complete shutdowns. If your neighborhood was the only one consistently targeted for shutdowns you would ask why? Even though we know the repair work is needed, why did CTA let the Green Line and now the South Side Red get in such a bad state that shutdowns are necessary? This projects dire need surpassed the North Sides Red and Purple Lines need for a rebuild, and I promise the Nort Side main ans Purple Line is just as slow.as the South. The only reason they say the South has the highest sli zone trackage is because the count the Red and Purple on the North separate, but the truth is they share the same infrastructure and when it comes time to do the North side, you have to do both together.. The race issue will never go away because this is Chicago, but you would.ve heard nothi

ng yet if CTA finds a way to do the NSM without a similar shutdown.

Btw, that gentlenan's remarks received the largest applause.

The Lake street line was one of the oldest lines in the system. The shutdown of the Green line was necessary because of the state it was in. Just because those lines were shut down does not prove that this had anything to do with race. There is no evidence to substantiate that, unless you have something! Yes the race issue will never go away because of small minded people like that gentleman who made the remark at the forum. It has no room here or anywhere! I will say this is not about race! You know it and I know it! This is about improving our transit system, whats wrong with that? Who cares that the man's comment got a big applause? That does nothing to improve our system. If the Red Line temporary closure is not the answer then what would you recommend? Give me your ideas!

[Guest]

I commute to work between Chicago and Milwaukee and use the CTA, so this issue is very important to me as well. also, i am African American, so when i hear this being an racial issue, regardless of ethinc and racial background, this one , in particular African American being the discussion at hand, i just ask that we all just take the racial element out and look at it from the facts that CTA is going to give us service changes, not racial relations

I agree with you 99 percent, except on one issue. I was referring to the comment one gentlman made at the last CTA forum who decided to throw race into this issue, it does not need to be thrown into this. I know not everyone thnks the way this gentleman does. Race dosent need to be an issue in this matter or any other matter. If riders begin throw race into this then it may spark more racial overtones, anger and then it could doom or delay the Red Line closure which would upset more people, it is totally unecessary. This is only a 5 month shutdown! This project will enhance and improve the performance of the Red Line which will be a benefit to everyone who rides the line. Plus not to mention the new cars being put into service and the planned improvement of the 95th st terminal. It will have the potential to create more jobs which the south side could certainly use. What is wrong with that? Were not talking two years like the Green Line! People need to calm down! Take a step back!

[artthouwill]

The Lake street line was one of the oldest lines in the system. The shutdown of the Green line was necessary because of the state it was in. Just because those lines were shut down does not prove that this had anything to do with race. There is no evidence to substantiate that, unless you have something! Yes the race issue will never go away because of small minded people like that gentleman who made the remark at the forum. It has no room here or anywhere! I will say this is not about race! You know it and I know it! This is about improving our transit system, whats wrong with that? Who cares that the man's comment got a big applause? That does nothing to improve our system. If the Red Line temporary closure is not the answer then what would you recommend? Give me your ideas!

I agree that the work needs to be done and the shutdown is the best option. I agree it is not a racial thing from CTA's POV. But taken in rhe context that the Punk never got shut down Renew the Blue, except on weekends with significally lower ridership and the Forest Pk branch nearby, not to mention the O'Hare leg weekend shutdowns, I certainly understand why it xould seem or feel racial. Like I said earlier, let CTA find a way to do the NSM without a similar shutdown and those who have opinions such as that one person will have that to back up their claim.

[Mike Payne]

What you're proposing isn't truly germane to the topic, by asking if the (yet to be built) Red stations will be staffed and have barriers. You're proposing that the Metra Stations have barriers, which doesn't make much sense (although memory recalled those barriers at Millenium prior to 2005). When it comes to boarding, alighting, and getting through some of those exits, barriers would make it a problem (if not hazardous).

As for 30 and 71 (or 27), that would help, especially if you can time those connections out of 6hat3rd (I prefer Garfield, but I reckon that'll get messy).

How about ensuring the 26 operate 7 days a week, if Metra can't (or won't) operate more frequently?

What I'm proposing is germane to the topic because everyone knows that any new 'L' station built on any CTA 'L' line, will have the same barrier controlled fare-payment system as on the existing system - right or wrong?? (You are aware that CTA has PORTABLE bus-type Fare Boxes that one person can carry with one hand - aren't you?)

If the MED is to function as a temporary 'L', it has to be able to handle huge crowds boarding and alighting at frequent stops; if 67 people get on a NB MED train at 95th St. - how is the Conductor going to inspect all of 67 of them in the minute or two before you get to the stop at 87th St. (where some of them might be getting off)?

And "boarding, alighting, and getting through" turnstiles doesn't seem to be much of a problem at A L L present operating CTA 'L' stations - or does it?

And the 27, 30, and 71 are buses, still subject to traffic, weather, etc....

[busfan2847]

I agree that the work needs to be done and the shutdown is the best option. I agree it is not a racial thing from CTA's POV. But taken in rhe context that the Punk never got shut down Renew the Blue, except on weekends with significally lower ridership and the Forest Pk branch nearby, not to mention the O'Hare leg weekend shutdowns, I certainly understand why it xould seem or feel racial. Like I said earlier, let CTA find a way to do the NSM without a similar shutdown and those who have opinions such as that one person will have that to back up their claim.

The Cermak branch of the Blue Line had lost it's weekend services, as part of the Booz-Allen Hamilton service plan of 1997, several years (12/19/1998) before the rehabilitation started (9/10/2001). Weekend services were restored 1/1/2005 when the rebuild project was completed. Pink line service to the Loop started 6/25/2006. During the period of the loss of weekend service cta provided the limited stop X21 bus along Cermak.

[Sam92]

And the 27, 30, and 71 are buses, still subject to traffic, weather, etc....

Yet, we've all managed to make it to work and school perfectly fine for as long as these routes have been in service and took over what Metra couldn't

[Busjack]

Yet, we've all managed to make it to work and school perfectly fine for as long as these routes have been in service and took over what Metra couldn't

I guess that's why the weekday daily ridership on 14 is "only" 12,700.

Not to mention that Metra is subject to suicides, or at 71st and Exchange, derailments.

[MetroShadow]

What I'm proposing is germane to the topic because everyone knows that any new 'L' station built on any CTA 'L' line, will have the same barrier controlled fare-payment system as on the existing system - right or wrong?? (You are aware that CTA has PORTABLE bus-type Fare Boxes that one person can carry with one hand - aren't you?)

If the MED is to function as a temporary 'L', it has to be able to handle huge crowds boarding and alighting at frequent stops; if 67 people get on a NB MED train at 95th St. - how is the Conductor going to inspect all of 67 of them in the minute or two before you get to the stop at 87th St. (where some of them might be getting off)?

And "boarding, alighting, and getting through" turnstiles doesn't seem to be much of a problem at A L L present operating CTA 'L' stations - or does it?

And the 27, 30, and 71 are buses, still subject to traffic, weather, etc....

Still doesn't account for people (can't remember offhand if it's been done) that'll jump the platforms at ME-SoChicago branch. If the platform to ground isn't high, you should hope that folks won't farebeat by jumping.

You sacrifice safety at the train stations (because if I'm going up while a ton of people are going down, I will throw elbows) for fare recovery (which would be solved with staff on-board the trains).

[MetroShadow]

I'd take 5 months over 4 long years.

Sadly people are stuck on the 'pleasure principle' that'll demand service immediately; but if you shut down a line for 4 years, you'd bet folks would moan "why haven't this been done yet."

Human nature: go figure.

[Busjack]

Sadly people are stuck on the 'pleasure principle' that'll demand service immediately; but if you shut down a line for 4 years, you'd bet folks would moan "why haven't this been done yet."

Human nature: go figure.

On the other hand, they apparently tolerated the Brown Line-North Main disruptions for about 4 years. In the meantime, those on the south side may still have to find another way to get to their jobs on time. I wonder if the free or reduced bus fares adequately compensate them for that.

As usual, there probably is some solution in the middle.

[MetroShadow]

This is somewhat related to the project (rather, it'll be done afterwards).

[Busjack]

This is somewhat related to the project (rather, it'll be done afterwards).

After reading it:

• What space is there into which to expand the terminal? There isn't any room between the expressway ramps now. Move in the direction of 93rd St.?
• The statement of the number of bus routes indicates a concession that there won't be the extension to 130th St. in the conceivable future, in that one of the rationales for it is to get a lot of the bus routes out of the 95th terminal (as indicated by our prior discussions about what bus routes could be moved if, say, the 115th multimodal station is built). There would be no need for any of the E-W routes from 103 south to go to 95th.

[Mike Payne]

Still doesn't account for people (can't remember offhand if it's been done) that'll jump the platforms at ME-SoChicago branch. If the platform to ground isn't high, you should hope that folks won't farebeat by jumping.

You sacrifice safety at the train stations (because if I'm going up while a ton of people are going down, I will throw elbows) for fare recovery (which would be solved with staff on-board the trains).

You still haven't explained how "staff on-board the trains" could inspect 60 to 80 people boarding at one stop (like 95th), before you arrive at the next stop 4 blocks away (like 87th) in two or three minutes? (where some of them might be getting off).

And PLEASE don't try to lay it on the train crews with that "if the train crews were doing their jobs" crap.

Nor have you acknowledged the existence of portable CTA fare boxes (used to control platform access).

btw: Do you throw elbows at Belmont or Fullerton on the Red/Brown Line during rush hours?

[ChicagoNova]

The entire Red Line needs to be rehabilitated between Howard and 95th. Whoever lives on the South Side should be thankful that the south branch is getting the makeover first.

[CURRENTZ_09]

First, you admitted that it was "your favorite governor" who killed KRM, and thus provided the money for Abele.

Second, apparently you are mixed up, in that you said "please explain why Claypool hasn't found money to improve the system" when you said Claypool had. If you mean Rodriguez (1) he was put in only to make cuts and (2) the PA96-35 money was held up in the W. Rockwell Wirtz litigation over, essentially, the constitutionality of the bill including the liquor tax.

I hope you buy a lot in Illinois subject to the sales tax.

Part of those funds went to the blue line the cmaq grants helped for the rest of the funds. Scott walker cut the state transportation fund by 10% from the 2011-2013 state budget

[artthouwill]

After reading it:

• What space is there into which to expand the terminal? There isn't any room between the expressway ramps now. Move in the direction of 93rd St.?
• The statement of the number of bus routes indicates a concession that there won't be the extension to 130th St. in the conceivable future, in that one of the rationales for it is to get a lot of the bus routes out of the 95th terminal (as indicated by our prior discussions about what bus routes could be moved if, say, the 115th multimodal station is built). There would be no need for any of the E-W routes from 103 south to go to 95th.

They could create a second lane for buses on rhe north side of the station, which would.require expanding the bridge. Also a new, smaller expansion of 95th bridge on the north side of the street would be a great place to relocate Greyhound. With those two ideas, you now have more room, though I agree that the Red Line extension is nowhere in the near future. Even at the public hearing CTA admitted they were only at step 2 of a 5 or 6 step process before that project can start.

[Busjack]

Even at the public hearing CTA admitted they were only at step 2 of a 5 or 6 step process before that project can start.

Even if they get to step 4, they'll still say "a source of funding has not been identified."*

As I have said certainly on the CTA Tattler, if not here, this is just a consultant's relief program. I don't think that the Pink and Brown Lines took that long to get a shovel into the ground, but those were New Starts, too.

If the point of the expansion is that CTA riders are transferring to the Hound, I don't think they would appreciate having to cross 95th. While I am sure something can be arranged, there isn't the room to build connecting bridges and the like, such as at Cumberland on the Blue Line.

*Update: As Claypool told the guest reporter on the CTA Tattler.

[MetroShadow]

btw: Do you throw elbows at Belmont or Fullerton on the Red/Brown Line during rush hours?

I do it 24/7, if you're inquiring.

[Kevin]

Yesterday I asked CTA spokeswoman Molly Sullivan about CTA's plans to work with Metra during the Dan Ryan shutdown. Not much new information, but she reiterated that the CTA is actively talking with them and that Forrest Claypool met with Metra Executive Director Alex Clifford last week. She expressed that there are a lot of issues that would need to be resolved, but they're "interested in figuring out how we could provide some type of coordination whereas possible."

[CURRENTZ_09]

Well, part 2 of the Red Line Dan Ryan is tonight. Should anyone expect anything new? Also, i wish i was there for CTA President Forrest Claypool's Question and Answer session, i hope he has another one and invites more bloggers to the session. This is a very nice touch to get to know what riders experience with the CTA. I'm also excited that he is going to do numerous community meetings about the Red Line South Track Renewal project and is actually showing up to these meetings to hear what the community has to say about this project. This shows that he actually cares about people's opinions and concerns about the CTA in general.

[jajuan]

As far as folks bemoaning the "race card" being pulled, race may not necessarily be a part of this and the Red Line does have to be redone on the ENTIRE line, Howard on down to 95th, it's all in the optics created and CTA's historical optics aren't good. So the gentleman perceiving things as he did as far as previous projects are concerned are valid for him even if you don't agree with his assessment. Plus they do have to cross that hurdle that they did work on the south end of the Red Line not so long ago, Green Line rebuild history aside. And while we aren't in the midst of Jim Crow, we aren't in an era where we all sing Kumbaya either so referring to aldermen as creatures and otherwise less than human does little to keep the flames from fanning as much as race would serve to fan them. Nor does belittling a community's, not all of which is black by the way even if the neighborhoods served by the Dan Ryan section are predominately black, seeing less incentive in riding a bus than taking a train and therefore seeing a bus less attractive. That's true of the north side area where I now reside unless one is going to one of the various shops or restaurants found across the north side. That being said, the CTA better take this as a chance to redeem themselves of previous bad blood of past projects and actually come up with alternatives that actually are as little a headache as possible and not just pay lip service that they are concerned with folks' concerns at adjusting to the admittedly needed work. And no those shuttle buses don't necessarily cut it when they would still have to contend with Dan Ryan Expressway rush hour traffic to get to the Garfield Green Line station. Yeah Hilkevitch killed the theory that they would use State Street when he hinted at them on the Dan Ryan when he ran through that hypothetical morning rush hour scenario with CTA relying heavily on the bus shuttles.

[CURRENTZ_09]

This meeting was histerical. I mean from Terry and Forrest laughing at people to giving rehearsed statements, i mean this was truly a showstopper you had to see for yourself. They treated the CTA officials like they were celebrities and the crowd was outraged by the CTA letting folks find out about these meetings through the media and non-visable post signs posted at some stations across the system. I will have more on this meeting 2.0 and why riders should just face that the CTA has made up their minds about this plan and why now i have a totally different view about the CTA: They are playing political games with the citizens of chicago that deserve better transit than their getting. Shame on the CTA. I also noticed when Terry spoke, eyes began to roll, i guess there is bad blood out there for him big time. This meeting was like a thanksgiving fest gone all the way bad or as someone stated, a bad sunday church service

[artthouwill]

This meeting was histerical. I mean from Terry and Forrest laughing at people to giving rehearsed statements, i mean this was truly a showstopper you had to see for yourself. They treated the CTA officials like they were celebrities and the crowd was outraged by the CTA letting folks find out about these meetings through the media and non-visable post signs posted at some stations across the system. I will have more on this meeting 2.0 and why riders should just face that the CTA has made up their minds about this plan and why now i have a totally different view about the CTA: They are playing political games with the citizens of chicago that deserve better transit than their getting. Shame on the CTA. I also noticed when Terry spoke, eyes began to roll, i guess there is bad blood out there for him big time. This meeting was like a thanksgiving fest gone all the way bad or as someone stated, a bad sunday church service

What you don't realize is that transit in Chicago is not run by transit professionals, but by politicians. Forrest Claypool was a Cook County Commissioner who twice tried to win Board Presidency and lost. I think he also was Chicago Park District Superintendent. Terry Peterson was Chicago Housing Authority Superintendent, and I forget what he did before that.. Huberman, before Claypool, was a Chicago Public School Superinten. Get the idea? The agency is a recycling playground for political hacks who are loyal to the mayor and are good at lobbying Springfield for money All of these agencies are breeding grounds for politicos so they can collect multiple pensions. Its not what you know but who you know.

Peterson is put out there to take the heat from the mostly Black audience that is angry with CTA. He portrays himself like he's like one of them (us), but the public is not buying that act, hence the rolled eyes you referred to. To the audience, he is a politican following the company line. Welcome to Chicago, the city that works for those who work the city over