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BusHunter

CTA buses to go all electric by 2040?

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They just announced on NBC news that Rahm announced plans for this. Let me see if I can pull up a link. Kind of a tall order considering they just have had 2 electric buses so far. 

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1 minute ago, BusHunter said:

They just announced on NBC news that Rahm announced plans for this. Let me see if I can pull up a link. Kind of a tall order considering they just have had 2 electric buses so far. 

Especially since no one really has widespread electric bus usage from what I know so far. Combine that with only two major manufacturers (not sure BYD will be able to recover from the ABQ blow) and 20 years seems like such a short timespan. Oh well, let's see what LA, NYC & Seattle do, since they usually end up shaping how most transit agencies end up.

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Is that timeline able to be met? Maybe, but that's a tall order.... down in TX, Proterras are sitting due to wiring issues and some batteries not taking a charge. Not a good idea until those bugs are figured out, I think. We still haven't heard anything about the Proterras ordered for the CTA.

While many bus manufacturers are testing 40' all-electric buses(New Flyer, Nova Bus, Proterra), nobody yet is even really dwelling into a 60' version for testing(might be some small companies, but the well of info has gone dry on those tests). And a 60' electric bus will need a lot more batteries, among other things to maintain life of the bus on route and in general, so extensive tests will need to be done.

We're still a long ways away, not to mention about 2026 give or take a few years, I think we might need to procure replacements for the New Flyer D40LF's, so we'll still have Hybrids or Clean Diesels to replace them, I think as 1,030 all-electric buses might be a little much right now.

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1 hour ago, sw4400 said:

Is that timeline able to be met? Maybe, but that's a tall order.... down in TX, Proterras are sitting due to wiring issues and some batteries not taking a charge. Not a good idea until those bugs are figured out, I think. We still haven't heard anything about the Proterras ordered for the CTA.

While many bus manufacturers are testing 40' all-electric buses(New Flyer, Nova Bus, Proterra), nobody yet is even really dwelling into a 60' version for testing(might be some small companies, but the well of info has gone dry on those tests). And a 60' electric bus will need a lot more batteries, among other things to maintain life of the bus on route and in general, so extensive tests will need to be done.

We're still a long ways away, not to mention about 2026 give or take a few years, I think we might need to procure replacements for the New Flyer D40LF's, so we'll still have Hybrids or Clean Diesels to replace them, I think as 1,030 all-electric buses might be a little much right now.

IndyGo (Indianapolis) & AVTA (Antelope Valley outside LA) have been using 60ft electric BYD models for a couple of months now. ABQ tried, but they were basically our 60ft NABIs for them; only thing they didn't do watch break apart or catch fire. They sent the entire order back, got some NFs instead.

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Whatever happened to flywheel buses?  Where an electric bus would need at least 30-60 minutes to get a full charge [assuming 480 volt three phase power], a flywheel should be fully spun up in a few minutes.

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How will they get the money for all these buses? That sounds like a tall order in itself. Then you have to wonder about the cold. Reports claim the range of an electric car can be up to 40 percent less in the cold. Then does ice and snow have anything to do with charging issues if charging outside? We can get some pretty extreme weather here. I think it's kind of bold to make a statement saying you will have a full fleet of them. Personally I don't see it. I think alternate fuels may have more promise. Like I would believe Pace will have an all cng fleet by then. 

Electric vehicles are the rage though. Chevy claims it wants go build all electrics in its line of cars. 

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4 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

According to two articles I found, New York and California also have plans to be all electric by 2040. 

New York? New Yooork? The same New York that has Galaxy's, RTS Nova and other cool relics still chugging along? :D

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4 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

According to two articles I found, New York and California also have plans to be all electric by 2040. 

AC Transit’s got hydrogen electric buses (Vanhool and NF)

Muni, outside of their electric trolleys have looked at electric buses (big issue are the hills)

Samtrans and VTA got a few electric buses. 

Stockton RTD has electric buses (just upgraded their commuter fleet from MCIs to Gillig hybrids)

Foothill Transit got a bunch of electrics, and will get an electric double tall  

LA Metro, I believe will end up with one more CNG Order (possibly to get rid of the older NABI’s) but plans to go all electric 

Others have had hybrids for sometime. 

 

But one thing to be to be aware of, we get grants here from the state/air resources board/ feds as needed. 

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Was reading an article on rapidshift.com which states the cta claims it saves 25k a year per electric bus versus diesel. That's big money when you are talking 2000 buses but it needs the capital to acquire it. Perhaps cta could lease buses and that would solve the financial part of it. 

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On 2/14/2019 at 8:35 AM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Especially since no one really has widespread electric bus usage from what I know so far. Combine that with only two major manufacturers (not sure BYD will be able to recover from the ABQ blow) and 20 years seems like such a short timespan. Oh well, let's see what LA, NYC & Seattle do, since they usually end up shaping how most transit agencies end up.

As far as Seattle setting the bar on electric that's more due to them using a high number of trolleybus routes. They look like a regular artic except with the poles and wiring overhead so would that be a good comparison? The next batch ordered is for their upcoming BRT corridors on Madison, Roosevelt, 23rd ave which interestingly are what the Ashland BRT would have been. 

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16 hours ago, Sam92 said:

As far as Seattle setting the bar on electric that's more due to them using a high number of trolleybus routes. They look like a regular artic except with the poles and wiring overhead so would that be a good comparison? The next batch ordered is for their upcoming BRT corridors on Madison, Roosevelt, 23rd ave which interestingly are what the Ashland BRT would have been. 

I meant in that when it comes to agencies testing new types of buses, it usually is one of those three, more often NY than the other three. Seattle, SF & Vancouver definitely pioneer trolley usage; I was surprised when Gillig debuted theirs in Dayton

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I have to believe that CTA is monitoring Pace's use of Compressed Natural Gas buses. Particularly, on the #349 (south) Western route.

Perhaps the Authority's alternate fuel vehicles will be CNG rather than electric. :|

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14 hours ago, pudgym29 said:

I have to believe that CTA is monitoring Pace's use of Compressed Natural Gas buses. Particularly, on the #349 (south) Western route.

Perhaps the Authority's alternate fuel vehicles will be CNG rather than electric. :|

The question is where to build CNG tanks?  Seemingly 77th and maybe NP are two garages that have room enough.  I don't think CTA would be willing to have one all CNG garage like Pace South.  Certainly CTA needs at least another order or two of clean diesel or hybrid buses.  All signs seem to point to electric bus fleets in the future, but how far in the future remains to be seen.  I'm not sold on it though.

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10 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The question is where to build CNG tanks?  Seemingly 77th and maybe NP are two garages that have room enough.  I don't think CTA would be willing to have one all CNG garage like Pace South.  Certainly CTA needs at least another order or two of clean diesel or hybrid buses.  All signs seem to point to electric bus fleets in the future, but how far in the future remains to be seen.  I'm not sold on it though.

When North Park garage was constructed and opened, it was the garage for all the Authority's Propane buses. Propane buses were discontinued in 1975. The area where the propane buses were refuelled could be converted to hold the CNG tanks.

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When CTA got their first propane buses in 1950, tanks were installed at North Park, North Ave, 77th, and Lawndale. Neighborhood opposition caused the Lawndale tanks to be moved to Kedzie by 1953. Forest Glen had tanks from opening and Archer got tanks at Pershing and Artesian about 1957. 

When North Park first opened it was populated with gas Brills and Fords, until the 5000's were delivered and had gas Twins for many years. First diesels were 3700's in 1968.

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