Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[jtrosario]

Seriously? If the 30 and 71 were to be beefed up, then run to Garfield GREEN/Temp RED, where far more train service is to be provided with RED frequency and Gottage Grove GREEN together, although both bus routes could go via the King Dr. station for those that REALLY want the (in)frequency of that GREEN line branch. (Also run the North leg of N5 to Garfield GREEN/Temp RED as well)

[Busjack]

Seriously? If the 30 and 71 were to be beefed up, then run to Garfield GREEN/Temp RED, where far more train service is to be provided with RED frequency and Gottage Grove GREEN together, although both bus routes could go via the King Dr. station for those that REALLY want the (in)frequency of that GREEN line branch. (Also run the North leg of N5 to Garfield GREEN/Temp RED as well)

I'm not running CTA service in that area, but it seems like there will be more train service at 63/King than at 69/State during those 4 months.

And the bus could be timed to meet the train, foreign as that concept generally is to CTA.

[Sam92]

I'm not running CTA service in that area, but it seems like there will be more train service at 63/King than at 69/State during those 4 months.

And the bus could be timed to meet the train, foreign as that concept generally is to CTA.

Maybe they can stop at 63/King, then run express to Garfield Green. I doubt they would make people make the extra transfer just by terminating at king dr. I doubt many people going downtown would rely on those when the 26 provides a straight shot from the same area and also is getting extra service.

[MetroShadow]

Metro - could you translate that last paragraph to English? (what are "shiggles")

Farebeat = Don't Pay a Fare on any of the extensions (which haven't been built or designed yet nor has any relevance to the Red Line at all).

Shiggles = Shits and Giggles

LA, Metro Transit, and Baltimore (Light Rail Only) has a honor system. Chicago has barriers throughout the L whereas Metra has a system of their own. Changing methods for a five month project seems silly and not truly cost-effective.

What you're proposing isn't truly germane to the topic, by asking if the (yet to be built) Red stations will be staffed and have barriers. You're proposing that the Metra Stations have barriers, which doesn't make much sense (although memory recalled those barriers at Millenium prior to 2005). When it comes to boarding, alighting, and getting through some of those exits, barriers would make it a problem (if not hazardous).

As for 30 and 71 (or 27), that would help, especially if you can time those connections out of 63rd (I prefer Garfield, but I reckon that'll get messy).

How about ensuring the 26 operate 7 days a week, if Metra can't (or won't) operate more frequently?

[CURRENTZ_09]

What i prey and hope is that they not only answer undying questions, but that they detail what they are going to do like they do on the Red Line South Track Renewal website instead of that 2 sided flyer that they think they are going to give everyone and be satified with what they want to tell us, im going to the meeting on Thursday and i hope that they have other options in plan too just in case the one that they present now doesn't fly.

[jajuan]

What i prey and hope is that they not only answer undying questions, but that they detail what they are going to do like they do on the Red Line South Track Renewal website instead of that 2 sided flyer that they think they are going to give everyone and be satified with what they want to tell us, im going to the meeting on Thursday and i hope that they have other options in plan too just in case the one that they present now doesn't fly.

Now you see what I meant by they give thses hearings to give the appearance they care what the public thinks but basically already have their minds made up to do what the hell they want. But one other thing that got missed but the Chicago Journal picked up on in their article on the project, is those riders who rely on the Cermak-Chinatown stop will have no rail alternative while the bus alternatives are the 24 and 62, neither of which is reported to be getting the beefed up service that are planned for bus routes that serve Red Line stations further south on the Dan Ryan leg as well as south side express bus routes that don't serve the Red Line on the south end if at all(14's connection being the Monroe stop which defeats the purpose since a rider is already downtown).

[Busjack]

...as well as south side express bus routes that don't serve the Red Line on the south end if at all(14's connection being the Monroe stop which defeats the purpose since a rider is already downtown).

One has to throw in here that the rationale of the South LSD restructuring (including the now dead X3 and X4 buses) was that people were going crosstown on 79 and 87 to get to the previous 6 and 14 buses on Jeffery. There was even a Tribune magazine story at the time about the day of a bus driver, where people were getting on the pullout on 79th east of State. If they weren't riding the Dan Ryan L then, they won't be when it isn't running.

A lot of stuff didn't make sense in the Tribune story about last night's "hearing" such as the woman who worked at Kennedy King complaining that 63rd and Halsted wasn't safe, but she went to the South Shore meeting even though the next one is at Kenndy King. We know she isn't changing her place of employment, but maybe there is a belief that people trying to get to the vicinity of 79th and Halsted, say to work at South Shops, might transfer at 63rd.

For that matter, since the most impacted area is 95th, you would have thought they would have scheduled a hearing at Chicago State, but of course they haven't as of now.

[artthouwill]

The so called hearing last night was a joke. Even with maps, promises of beefed up service, most of the questions were about stuff that was already covered. Mr Payne was there, though I see he got no press coverage.

The concept for those passengers that can take northbound crosstown routes to 63rd flew right over people's heads. It was as though the Red Line was the only option in the world and it's not. Those who would be most affected that live south of 95th were not well represented. Some wete resigned to the idea that CTA is going to do this regardless and some seemingly would rather have the entire line be a slow zone rather than lose service for one minute. Of course the racial aspect came up, and the idea a shutdown of this magnitude would never happen in a White neighborhood, but we will see when it's the North side's turn for a Red Line rehab.

[Busjack]

Mr Payne was there, though I see he got no press coverage.

As even he acknowledged, he got publicity for appearing before the CTA Board for an essentially dead idea (at least with regard to the fare barriers or this being a genesis for the Gray Line). So, I don't know how much more he needs.

Of course the racial aspect came up, and the idea a shutdown of this magnitude would never happen in a White neighborhood, but we will see when it's the North side's turn for a Red Line rehab.

They have the evidence that (1) the North Main was not completely shut down during three track, and even CTA went back on Kruesi's first disdainful view of "just find something else" and (2) not in association with the current band aid project.

As indicated, there may be a distinction in that there were more than two tracks available in both situations. On the other hand, as some here have speculated, if Claypool and Emanuel get the $2 billion needed to replace the embankment with a "modern aerial structure," and the pylons for the latter have to go under the former, what are they going to do then (or more properly, what would Mayor Vanecko and whatever political stooge he appoints as CTA President would do)? Theoretical now, but you did note it.

[Guest]

I was reading one of the stories on the feedback CTA officials were getting from the latest

forum that was held. I can understand the riders frustration that their rail line will be shut down for a few months. But already one person is turning this into a race issue stating that "this wouldnt happen on the Brown Line", "in a white neighborhood". Race has nothing to do with this project. All this is going to do is stir up anger and protest in the black community and then you will see the faces of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton protesting, adding more fuel to the fire. All it will do is delay the project to many south side riders who will appreciate the new improvements, faster, reliable, convenient service. Who would not want that? This issue about "race" needs to stop. It is an improvement for Red line riders as well as many other riders, south siders should be happy that their line is being made safer and faster. This is only a five month project! I hope Im not offending my African American transit fans here, If I did, I apologize, but I dont see why someone has to turn this into an issue about race! This project will be to the benefit of south side transit riders! Let the CTA do its job!

[chicagopcclcar]

Forget the Brown Line rehab...the real comparison to the Red line Track Renewal is the track work on the O'Hare Blue line a few years back. How long did that project take? What were the closures?

David Harrison

[CURRENTZ_09]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Racial overtones on this issue is not the issue at all!!!!!!!! The issue at hand is that the CTA is going to go forward with it's plan of shutting it down for 5 months PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Please remember, these are informational sessions, things could change during the upcoming months. The CTA has 3 more meeting planned in July, lets just hear them out. Now some of us are still feeling the clout of doubt about this possibly being a Green Line Rerun again and the CTA will have to prove to customers that we are not hear to play patty bakers man on anybodys time, but as customers, we must voice our opinions, but be respectful to each other at the same time. Also, please give Forrest Claypool a ROUND OF APPLUSE, as he has been one of the few CTA presidents on recent history, to find the dollars to get the CTA into a good state of repair. Let's here the CTA out, because behind closed doors, they are working out a deal with Metra which could be revealed in the near future. So let's just prepare and understand that if the line isn't fixed at all and as they said back in 1996, Once the L is gone, It's gone forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chicagopcclcar]

For that matter, since the most impacted area is 95th, you would have thought they would have scheduled a hearing at Chicago State, but of course they haven't as of now.

Give the CTA some credit...they have announced that this week's two meetings are only the first of a series.

David Harrison

[chicagopcclcar]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Racial overtones on this issue is not the issue at all!!!!!!!! The issue at hand is that the CTA is going to go forward with it's plan of shutting it down for 5 months PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Please remember, these are informational sessions, things could change during the upcoming months. The CTA has 3 more meeting planned in July, lets just hear them out. Now some of us are still feeling the clout of doubt about this possibly being a Green Line Rerun again and the CTA will have to prove to customers that we are not hear to play patty bakers man on anybodys time, but as customers, we must voice our opinions, but be respectful to each other at the same time. Also, please give Forrest Claypool a ROUND OF APPLUSE, as he has been one of the few CTA presidents on recent history, to find the dollars to get the CTA into a good state of repair. Let's here the CTA out, because behind closed doors, they are working out a deal with Metra which could be revealed in the near future. So let's just prepare and understand that if the line isn't fixed at all and as they said back in 1996, Once the L is gone, It's gone forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First, what's with all the exclamation marks? And do you really live in Milwaukee? If so, why worry so much about Chicago?

As for race, Chicago was and still is the most racially segregated city in the United States. According to the Chicago Tribune, 85 percent of the population lives in areas that are 90 % racially identifiable. So race will always be a component of discussions of urban affairs. Don't let that be a surprise to you.

David Harrison

[Busjack]

Race has nothing to do with this project. All this is going to do is stir up anger and protest in the black community and then you will see the faces of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton protesting, adding more fuel to the fire.... I hope Im not offending my African American transit fans here, If I did, I apologize, but I dont see why someone has to turn into an issue about race!

Well, you mentioned two to begin with. I previously mentioned that once every aldercreature and preacher were tipped off, what was going to happen. Apparently the adlercreatures became compliant tools, but otherwise I expected this, whatever the merits of the protest.

BTW: You know they will really be out if they don't get the promised jobs, although I don't know who else will get the promised 200 bus driver temp positions.

Forget the Brown Line rehab...the real comparison to the Red line Track Renewal is the track work on the O'Hare Blue line a few years back. How long did that project take? What were the closures?

I was thinking that one, too.

Give the CTA some credit...they have announced that this week's two meetings are only the first of a series.

That is why I said "as of now." But if CTA were really concerned, Chicago State would have been first.

[Busjack]

Also, please give Forrest Claypool a ROUND OF APPLUSE, as he has been one of the few CTA presidents on recent history, to find the dollars to get the CTA into a good state of repair.

I know that I lit into you about Rodriguez, but that was nothing compared to Claypool.

Claypool didn't find any money. CTA got an appropriation from the state "Build Illinois" program (PA 96-35) based on bonds financed by increased license sticker fees, and increased taxes on pop, candy, and liquor, among many others (PA 96-34). Metra and Pace got that money based on a formula too, as well as most school districts, state parks, etc.

And as far as CTA getting into a state of good repair, they supposedly fixed this 5 years ago, and, as the reference to the O'Hare Line indicates, probably will have to fix it again in 2019.

I didn't say to congratulate Governor Scott Walker for finding the money to save the Milwaukee County bus system. Maybe I should.

[Guest]

First, what's with all the exclamation marks? And do you really live in Milwaukee? If so, why worry so much about Chicago?

As for race, Chicago was and still is the most racially segregated city in the United States. According to the Chicago Tribune, 85 percent of the population lives in areas that are 90 % racially identifiable. So race will always be a component of discussions of urban affairs. Don't let that be a surprise to you.

David Harrison

I agree with you David, really! Race is not a surprise to me!, Im a lifelong Chicagoan, I spent many years working on the West side and Englewood while working for both the CTA and the Chicago Fire Dept. so I do have an idea of the issues plaguing these areas. But that still is no reason for race to become an issue in this project. We know there are racial issues still in this city and there have been for a long time. But this is an improvement project that will be to the benefit of many! Pulling the race card in this will only complicate matters, particularly if Jesse Jackson decides to join in this. And David, I believe the Blue Line project took much more than five months. True, they did not shut down the Blue line while the work was being done, but CTA made it clear this is only a five month project!. The CTA is not asking much more than just patience from its South side riders who use the Red Line. I think many of those riders can tolerate a few months of the inconvenience.

[ChicagoNova]

I think many of those riders can tolerate a few months of the inconvenience.

I'd take 5 months over 4 long years.

[nflyer22]

I agree with you David, really! Race is not a surprise to me!, Im a lifelong Chicagoan, I spent many years working on the West side and Englewood while working for both the CTA and the Chicago Fire Dept. so I do have an idea of the issues plaguing these areas. But that still is no reason for race to become an issue in this project. We know there are racial issues still in this city and there have been for a long time. But this is an improvement project that will be to the benefit of many! Pulling the race card in this will only complicate matters, particularly if Jesse Jackson decides to join in this. And David, I believe the Blue Line project took much more than five months. True, they did not shut down the Blue line while the work was being done, but CTA made it clear this is only a five month project!. The CTA is not asking much more than just patience from its South side riders who use the Red Line. I think many of those riders can tolerate a few months of the inconvenience.

I also do not like the idea of race thrown into any argument, but I'm just going to give out a small sample of what happens in Chinatown and the Asian-American community: when the Red Line got weekend reroutes to the elevated tracks for subway track work several years ago, many people in the area were at first confused of the "new" Red Line routing, some thought this change was even permanent for the weekend. While time was needed for frequent riders who knew little of what was going on, they soon adjusted to the "new" routing, accepted it, and went on with their usual business. When the weekend reroutes were gone, they wondered what had happened to the "new" route, but they learned that the reroute was only for track work and they now have an improved ride in the subway. Many rejoiced to have learned the temporary disturbance was for a better ride in the long term.

Any work related to the city or even the CTA gets passed out here, but usually not in a language that is comprehensible to most people in the area, thus the only way for people to fully realize what is going on is by word-of-mouth. However, that is much easier said than done when gossip, or a false version of the actual information, gets spread faster than the real deal, ie. Red Line reroute permanent for weekends only.

With the 5 month shutdown a year away, I hope there won't be confusion in the community that the Red Line will be 'shut down permanently', but rather again, a temporary annoyance to improve the ride for everyone. I better head out and start spreading that word...

[CURRENTZ_09]

First, what's with all the exclamation marks? And do you really live in Milwaukee? If so, why worry so much about Chicago?

As for race, Chicago was and still is the most racially segregated city in the United States. According to the Chicago Tribune, 85 percent of the population lives in areas that are 90 % racially identifiable. So race will always be a component of discussions of urban affairs. Don't let that be a surprise to you.

David Harrison

I commute to work between Chicago and Milwaukee and use the CTA, so this issue is very important to me as well. also, i am African American, so when i hear this being an racial issue, regardless of ethinc and racial background, this one , in particular African American being the discussion at hand, i just ask that we all just take the racial element out and look at it from the facts that CTA is going to give us service changes, not racial relations

[CURRENTZ_09]

I know that I lit into you about Rodriguez, but that was nothing compared to Claypool.

Claypool didn't find any money. CTA got an appropriation from the state "Build Illinois" program (PA 96-35) based on bonds financed by increased license sticker fees, and increased taxes on pop, candy, and liquor, among many others (PA 96-34). Metra and Pace got that money based on a formula too, as well as most school districts, state parks, etc.

And as far as CTA getting into a state of good repair, they supposedly fixed this 5 years ago, and, as the reference to the O'Hare Line indicates, probably will have to fix it again in 2019.

I didn't say to congratulate Governor Scott Walker for finding the money to save the Milwaukee County bus system. Maybe I should.

@Busjack, please explain why Claypool hasn't found money to improve the system. Rodriguez was in a tough position to put forth service cuts and keep the CTA a float at a time State Management (we won't discuss politics) was giving a slide show. Also, It was County Executive Chris Abele that found grand money for 2 years (until 2014) to keep MCTS afloat, so thank him.

[chicagopcclcar]

Thank you CTA5750 and nflyer for your responses. When I mention to expect race in replys and comments, it does not mean the inclusion is valid, it means the inclusion is to be expected, due to the nature of the composition of Chicago. Have proper responses ready that recognize the concerns over race in decision making and be able to show that the decisons have been made using fairness and equality.

And may I add that calling aldermen, elected representatives, ministers and religious leaders "out of their names" does nothing to ease racial concerns and many times aggravates situations. That's going to be hard for some of you based on reading a year's worth of topics on this forum.

The role of newspapers and media in this situation is to look for conflict...conflict sells. If according to the Tribune there were 50 in attendance and they only quote three, how are we to know how the chosen three reflect the majority views? I am sure many participants will spend more time complaining about present service, ignoring the five months next year. The CTA really has a basic education job on their hands. I agree with a previous comment that a large number of riders have no comprehension about other transportation services besides the Red line.

Finally may I say that last week's announcement doesn't reveal how much thinking and planning has been ongoing behind the scenes. Trial balloons were floated many times. I gave an opinion to planners almost a year ago and snuck in a message on the internet that the "Englewood-Howard 'L'" was coming back last year, LOL.

David Harrison

[Busjack]

@Busjack, please explain why Claypool hasn't found money to improve the system. Rodriguez was in a tough position to put forth service cuts and keep the CTA a float at a time State Management (we won't discuss politics) was giving a slide show. Also, It was County Executive Chris Abele that found grand money for 2 years (until 2014) to keep MCTS afloat, so thank him.

First, you admitted that it was "your favorite governor" who killed KRM, and thus provided the money for Abele.

Second, apparently you are mixed up, in that you said "please explain why Claypool hasn't found money to improve the system" when you said Claypool had. If you mean Rodriguez (1) he was put in only to make cuts and (2) the PA96-35 money was held up in the W. Rockwell Wirtz litigation over, essentially, the constitutionality of the bill including the liquor tax.

I commute to work between Chicago and Milwaukee and use the CTA, so this issue is very important to me as well....

I hope you buy a lot in Illinois subject to the sales tax.

[Kimball401]

OMG.....................I AM GOING TO ENJOY THIS, THE RUMORS ARE TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

it kinda reminds me of the Howard-Englewood-Jackson Park routing that Cta ran till '93 .But this is every Cta railfans dream come true.!!!! "not the shutdown but the reroute"

[chicagopcclcar]

it kinda reminds me of the Howard-Englewood-Jackson Park routing that CTA ran till '93 .But this is every CTA railfans dream come true.!!!! "not the shutdown but the reroute"

And that "Howard-Englewood" replaced the prior "Ravenswood-Englewood via Subway" with sub destinations of "Albany Park" and "Normal Park."

David Harrison