Red & Purple Modernization Project (RPM)

[garmon757]

Well I didn't expect a stairway replacing the old escalator @ Clark/Division. :huh:

[MetroShadow]

Well I didn't expect a stairway replacing the old escalator @ Clark/Division.

I'm glad they decided to do that, especially since passenger traffic should flow to both ends of the station instead of the LaSalle end.

/made for really weird trips to get to Payton in the olden days.

[Busjack]

Well I didn't expect a stairway replacing the old escalator @ Clark/Division.

Maybe the tight clearance has something to do with it.

I'm glad they decided to do that, especially since passenger traffic should flow to both ends of the station instead of the LaSalle end.

/made for really weird trips to get to Payton in the olden days.

I wasn't able follow this one. I thought LaSalle was closer to Payton (although an Oak St. station on the Brown/Purple would be even closer) and the reason LaSalle was added was to provide an adequate footprint for the accessibility features.

[MetroShadow]

I wasn't able follow this one. I thought LaSalle was closer to Payton (although an Oak St. station on the Brown/Purple would be even closer) and the reason LaSalle was added was to provide an adequate footprint for the accessibility features.

Adequate footprint, yes. Additional benefit to the students, definitely (but that wasn't the reason to expand, obviously).

[Busjack]

Maybe related, but part of this topic, is that to have a staging area for the Bryn Mawr station, DNAinfo has a story (link on the home page) that CTA intends to condemn a car dealership and Public Storage for a staging area, not that it is actually needed for the station footprint.

I might have mentioned before that it was one thing to take 2 gas stations, 2 beauty parlors and a hot dog stand for a staging area for the 95th terminal, but you are talking big money for a similar temporary use of land on the north side. If nothing else, CTA is going to have to buy Loquercio a new dealership. It also appears that CTA intends to buy out and would have to relocate a strip mall in Little Saigon to have a staging area for what is IMO a totally unnecessary Argyle station.

Indirectly indicated in this Tribune article, CTA bought Loquercio the Z Frank property.

[Tcmetro]

I was reading through the FTA's 2016 program, included is a fact sheet on the Red/Purple modernization. The general timeline is to reach a construction grant agreement in 2016, and wrap up construction in 2020 or 2021.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/IL__Chicago_Red_and_Purple_Line_Modernization_Profile_FY16.pdf

[Busjack]

I was reading through the FTA's 2016 program, included is a fact sheet on the Red/Purple modernization. The general timeline is to reach a construction grant agreement in 2016, and wrap up construction in 2020 or 2021.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/IL__Chicago_Red_and_Purple_Line_Modernization_Profile_FY16.pdf

Other than "plans," the dates indicated in that document don't indicate any construction starting imminently.

[Busjack]

Jesus "Chuy" Garcia is not supporting the Brown line flyover, so I don't know if that could potentially stop CTA. But that is a smart move politically, ....

Since Rahm is now admitting to his authoritarian attitude, and that project has gone no further than sending out potential eminent domain notices (no funding, not through environmental review), once the CTA comes under the "Leadership of Mayor Jesus 'Chuy' Garcia," sure it could forget the project.

No different than Rahm's crew saying that Block 37 was "under another administration," although in that case, Channel 5 said that CTA still has to pay off $400 million in bonds. Probably no different than Gov. Rauner saying that the Illiana Expressway is "under review."

[BusHunter]

Interesting that CTA throws their support behind Garcia and he basically disses them with the brown line flyover. That's politics I guess. It could show indecision on his part or disloyalty to his followers. CTA could withdraw support for him not that they sound enthusiastic about Rahm. I think with the republican Gov in office, anyone that wins will be a one term mayor anyway. Things are going to get cut and people will be so angry with the administration they'll be looking for change. As far as CTA, that shouldn't affect federal money (we hope) but the operating budget is going to get hurt and we'll probably be looking at service cuts/fare increases with next years budget.

[Busjack]

Interesting that CTA throws their support behind Garcia and he basically disses them with the brown line flyover....

I'm not following you here. Since the CTA board and administration work under the sole "leadership of Mayor Rahm Emanuel" they aren't throwing their support behind Garcia.

Now, if you mean the unionized workforce, I bet is is no different than CTU is the main backer of Garcia. ATU members don't have any use for Emanuel as implemented by Claypool. One probably can ask 5750, but I don't think that the police and firefighter unions have any use for Emanuel, either. Voting maps indicate that Emanuel didn't do so well in the far northwest side, although the only places were Garcia had actual victories were in the Pilsen-Little Village and Logan Square corridors, and the 10th (southeast side) and 49th (E. Rogers Park) Wards, all which appear to be predominantly Hispanic.

Garcia using the flyover as a wedge might work, as the map indicates that the only area where Emanuel got over 50% is the north lakefront.

[BusHunter]

Well the CTU is as close as you can get to saying the CTA endorses Garcia. Besides aren't locals papers saying that CTA endorses him even though that may be "politically incorrect." From what I read of Garcia strongholds mainly the sw side, lower west side and parts of albany park along kimball were where he ran good. The far nw side mainly supported Emanuel.

I honestly don't know who is the better candidate. Emanuel brings experience with him of not doing that bad of a job (But he's no Daley) and according to what 5750 said most of his beefs are over his personality. We have to look at the issues of is he getting the job done and I think he has. He's not going to be perfect but after we elected Gov Rauner and now we basically have been thrown a pie in the face, I'm somewhat weary of turning over the ranks to someone new. So he's the better of the two candidates.

[Busjack]

Well the CTU is as close as you can get to saying the CTA endorses Garcia. ....

But I pointed out above, you haven't said who "CTA" is. Clearly, Claypool is the head of the CTA, but if Emanuel loses, he becomes unemployed. CTU is the teachers' union under Karen Lewis, not CPS under Barbara Byrd Bennett.

While the "beef" is with Emanuel's personality, I think his confessional advertisement admits the personality issue, but denies the general governance one--that he thinks he is an autocrat and does not have to listen to the people. That not how democracy is theoretically supposed to work. You see that all the time in the CTA context, such as Claypool saying to the Lincoln Ave. people "that's the Crowd Reduction Plan, and we're not doing anything about it" to his most recent statement about how the flyover "needs to be done," despite not providing a coherent justification in terms of delays an the like for it. The red light cameras provide another example. The schools might provide another, except it hits me as too complex and probably not suitable for discussion here (the consensus seems to be that the city can't run a school system with half empty schools, but again the process is being questioned). The teachers' strike indicates that the only way to get through to Emanuel is to confront him (not that I agree that teachers should have the right to strike).

Of course, I've said elsewhere, if not here, I don't get a vote in this election. I did get a vote in the governor's one.

[Tcmetro]

According to this tribune article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cta-projects-met-20150428-story.html) CTA is planning the Brwn Mawr-Lawrence project for 2017. The first 18 months means closures of Lawrence and Berwyn, the second 18 months means closures of Berwyn, Argyle, Lawrence, and NB Bryn Mawr, with a temporary station at Foster. Red and Purple trains will have to share tracks.

There is a meeting on May 14th, 6:30-8 pm, at Broadway Armory, 5917 N. Broadway.

[Busjack]

According to this tribune article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cta-projects-met-20150428-story.html) CTA is planning the Brwn Mawr-Lawrence project for 2017. The first 18 months means closures of Lawrence and Berwyn, the second 18 months means closures of Berwyn, Argyle, Lawrence, and NB Bryn Mawr, with a temporary station at Foster. Red and Purple trains will have to share tracks.

There is a meeting on May 14th, 6:30-8 pm, at Broadway Armory, 5917 N. Broadway.

​Only thing new is that this is only the environmental review stage.

Not new is that CTA is about $1.850 billion short.

[BusHunter]

Aren't they jumping the gun here? This is only an environmental review and as Busjack mentions they have about 5 percent of the funding. They just rebuilt those stations except Bryn Mawr. I didn't think they would be fixed to be accessible this fast. That other project was kind of a waste then to rebuild the 8 stations. (Well maybe not the north ones) Wasn't that done with a pretext that the stations would be in operation for 15-20 years? Looks like now they may not even make their 10th birthday. Sounds like then they will be starting shortly after the end of the Wilson project.

One thing that seems to have got lost in this was the funding that Obama helped get for the CTA that totaled $120 million in which CTA was the only applicant. Now the feds gave then $35 Million. Are they not going to get the $120 million?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20140805/BLOGS02/140809926/cta-gets-35-million-for-red-line-work

[Busjack]

Aren't they jumping the gun here? This is only an environmental review and as Busjack mentions they have about 5 percent of the funding. They just rebuilt those stations except Bryn Mawr. I didn't think they would be fixed to be accessible this fast. That other project was kind of a waste then to rebuild the 8 stations. (Well maybe not the north ones) Wasn't that done with a pretext that the stations would be in operation for 15-20 years? Looks like now they may not even make their 10th birthday. Sounds like then they will be starting shortly after the end of the Wilson project.

One thing that seems to have got lost in this was the funding that Obama helped get for the CTA that totaled $120 million in which CTA was the only applicant. Now the feds gave then $35 Million. Are they not going to get the $120 million?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20140805/BLOGS02/140809926/cta-gets-35-million-for-red-line-work

​My impression was that the last round of repairs was for a 10 year service life, so that might be consistent with the indicated timetable.

On the Core Capacity point, apparently the program was created because CTA's projects didn't qualify for the New Starts program, but, essentially the article points out that the money has to be appropriated each year or in a funded transportation bill to the program for there to be any money.

[strictures]

Aren't they jumping the gun here? This is only an environmental review and as Busjack mentions they have about 5 percent of the funding. They just rebuilt those stations except Bryn Mawr. I didn't think they would be fixed to be accessible this fast. That other project was kind of a waste then to rebuild the 8 stations. (Well maybe not the north ones) Wasn't that done with a pretext that the stations would be in operation for 15-20 years? Looks like now they may not even make their 10th birthday. Sounds like then they will be starting shortly after the end of the Wilson project.

One thing that seems to have got lost in this was the funding that Obama helped get for the CTA that totaled $120 million in which CTA was the only applicant. Now the feds gave then $35 Million. Are they not going to get the $120 million?

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20140805/BLOGS02/140809926/cta-gets-35-million-for-red-line-work

​There's still too many stations north of Wilson,

Lawrence should disappear & riders can board at a Leland entrance to Wilson. Argyle & Berwyn should be combined into a Foster Station. Thorndale should go & the long planned Glenlake entrance to Granville should be built.

Not just faster service, when there's all these stations too close together, but also that would save money over the long run.

Edited April 29, 2015 by strictures

[BusHunter]

​There's still too many station north of Wilson,

Lawrence should disappear & riders can board at a Leland entrance to Wilson. Argyle & Berwyn should be combined into a Foster Station. Thorndale should go & the long planned Glenlake entrance to Granville should be built.

Not just faster service, when there's all these stations too close together, but also that would save money over the long run.

​I would tend to agree with you. The only thing wrong with that is the new Wilson station will be more south and straddle Sunnyside and Wilson with the north end slightly north of Wilson. Now what would be smarter is to have a sunnyside and Wilson entrance and like you say run a auxillary entrance/exit to Broadway/Leland like what they do on the Brown line at a few locations. (thinking of Addison and it's Lincoln exit). CTA has tried running a few station closures past the riders/residents of those areas and got a backlash, so they backed down. But the project would be cheaper if there were less stations and move faster too. They would have a problem of where to put a Berwyn terminal too. But once again if they straddled the station between Berwyn and Foster maybe it would work unchanged. But yeah there are too many stops.

No doubt buses are going to be rerouted, probably the #92 Foster will be more challenging as they will have to send it north or south. Probably better to send it north, then it could serve Berwyn and run express better down Sheridan than up Sheridan which is more congested. Layovers will probably have to be on Broadway for the #146, there is no room anywhere else.

[BusHunter]

CTA put up on their site the environmental impact statement documents for Bryn Mawr to Lawrence. (at least I think that's what this is) It's actually kind of interesting and gives a perspective on how they will work the project. They want to build a temporary station for Bryn Mawr on the outside of track 1 and do the same for a foster/winona station down the line. They are only acquiring the Toyota dealership property and the construction will be with concrete cylindrical columns just like the Fullerton/Red or similar constructed segments. They want to build noise abatement structures on the outside of the concrete track base. they will have welded rail which is really quiet, the orange line has that, and concrete ties that will be built into the structure. (sounds like Fullerton/Red) Seems strange they would want to replace the earth fill unless they are really worried about noise, but I don't think the Orange line modern elevated segments are that loud. If they just ran a structure people could park under it and they might be able to squeeze in a small park and ride lot. Well here is the link:

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/rpmproject/CTA_Lawrence_to_BrynMawr_ES_WEB_PAGES.pdf

Edited May 2, 2015 by BusHunter

[briman94]

CTA put up on their site the environmental impact statement documents for Bryn Mawr to Lawrence. (at least I think that's what this is) It's actually kind of interesting and gives a perspective on how they will work the project. They want to build a temporary station for Bryn Mawr on the outside of track 1 and do the same for a foster/winona station down the line. They are only acquiring the Toyota dealership property and the construction will be with concrete cylindrical columns just like the Fullerton/Red or similar constructed segments. They want to build noise abatement structures on the outside of the concrete track base. they will have welded rail which is really quiet, the orange line has that, and concrete ties that will be built into the structure. (sounds like Fullerton/Red) Seems strange they would want to replace the earth fill unless they are really worried about noise, but I don't think the Orange line modern elevated segments are that loud. If they just ran a structure people could park under it and they might be able to squeeze in a small park and ride lot. Well here is the link:

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/rpmproject/CTA_Lawrence_to_BrynMawr_ES_WEB_PAGES.pdf

Wasn't actually aware of welded rail until you mentioned it...so that's what makes the orange line so smooth and quiet! I wish they'd replace the Ravenswood Connector track with that so I don't get woken up every morning by brown lines...

[ArcherRider]

 

​

Wasn't actually aware of welded rail until you mentioned it...so that's what makes the orange line so smooth and quiet! I wish they'd replace the Ravenswood Connector track with that so I don't get woken up every morning by brown lines...

It cost 90 million to redo the Ravenswood Connector track and if went with welded rail it will cost more money and more closure time.

After I read this I do support because I hate ride the Red and Purple Line north because of no elevator and  the NB Purple is too slow sometime the bus is faster than train.  I hope CTA get the federal funds to fix the Red Line North.

Edited May 2, 2015 by ArcherRider

[Busjack]

Wasn't actually aware of welded rail until you mentioned it...so that's what makes the orange line so smooth and quiet! I wish they'd replace the Ravenswood Connector track with that so I don't get woken up every morning by brown lines...

​Welded rail isn't new there. It was installed in the mid 1970s, and there were pictures of trains consisting of about 11 cars of 4000s and flatcars hauling it. Then, on the most recent rebuild, they used track panels.

[Busjack]

... They want to build a temporary station for Bryn Mawr on the outside of track 1 and do the same for a foster/winona station down the line. ... and the construction will be with concrete cylindrical columns just like the Fullerton/Red or similar constructed segments.....

​That seem to be the two surprising things in that report, The impression given at the beginning of the last project was that Bryn Mawr did not get work because the alderman had arranged for an about $80 million project to replace it where it is, but if they are getting rid of the embankment, they won't be. The other surprising thing is getting rid of the embankment. IIRC, you had asked when the 4 alternatives were originally proposed, how were they going to build a "modern elevated structure" on the current right of way. This report proposes how. However, it sure looks like the stretch north of Belmont is going to be two track for an awful long time (at least in segments, and assuming they get the money).

One wonders whether they are stuck with the current configurations at Loyola and Granville, or their service lives will be up by the time the project gets up there in the next phase.

Finally, if they are ripping everything out, I don't see why they can't rationalize the location of the stations, unless they figure they are going to get heat if they have to hold public hearings to close existing ones. Update: I just remember the stink Joe Moore made when one of the alternatives mentioned closing Jarvis.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Busjack

[BusHunter]

​That seem to be the two surprising things in that report, The impression given at the beginning of the last project was that Bryn Mawr did not get work because the alderman had arranged for an about $80 million project to replace it where it is, but if they are getting rid of the embankment, they won't be. The other surprising thing is getting rid of the embankment. IIRC, you had asked when the 4 alternatives were originally proposed, how were they going to build a "modern elevated structure" on the current right of way. This report proposes how. However, it sure looks like the stretch north of Belmont is going to be two track for an awful long time (at least in segments, and assuming they get the money).

​So, you think they are not replacing the earth fill? I honestly can't tell if they are or are not. It sounds like they will, but don't really need to. But the question then remains, why put a concrete base on earth fill? So it does sound like you're right.

So if I'm understanding this correctly this is 3 year project for a mile of track. I wonder why so long? Wasn't the similarly constructed Cermak branch done in the same amount of time or less and that was what,over 4 miles of elevated structure rehab. This would be about a two track block every six months on the Red. They might find they can construct this faster, especially if the concrete segments are being constructed off site.

They say they want to close I think Argyle, Berwyn and only have a sb Bryn Mawr stop at the same time. With the #147 two blocks away. I think there going to find flocks of riders heading over there. They might have to give NP even more artics but hopefully by then, the FG #6400's will be gone. That would probably be the support garage behind NP and they would still have the oldest equipment? Maybe?

[Busjack]

​So, you think they are not replacing the earth fill? I honestly can't tell if they are or are not. It sounds like they will, but don't really need to. But the question then remains, why put a concrete base on earth fill? So it does sound like you're right.....

​You got me to reread it more closely. However, I am relying on the following from page 8:

Reconstructing the Tracks

The Build Alternative would also completely reconstruct the elevated track system from Leland Avenue to near Ardmore Avenue. The proposed structure would be a closed-deck, aerial structure with direct-fixation track, welded rail (welded at joints), and noise barriers. With direct-fixation track, rails are mounted to specially designed concrete blocks that are fixed to the concrete deck. (emphasis added)

The question is also what one can get out of the diagram on page 9. It looks like they retain the embankment, but stick  the columns through it and then build the deck above the embankment. I guess one can ask whether that is the whole length of the line or just at the stations and viaducts, but from the description described above, seems like the whole length of the line.

​....

So if I'm understanding this correctly this is 3 year project for a mile of track. I wonder why so long? Wasn't the similarly constructed Cermak branch done in the same amount of time or less and that was what,over 4 miles of elevated structure rehab. This would be about a two track block every six months on the Red. They might find they can construct this faster, especially if the concrete segments are being constructed off site.....

​The comparison to Cermak is easier to explain. When the Cermak branch was done, they built the concrete columns under the existing steel structure. The line was closed for the weekends, so they just knocked out a half block's worth of structure, slid in the new I beams and track, and reopened on Monday. Wooden stations were hung from the I beams until the new stations were constructed. Page 10 indicates some temporary platforms, but definitely states that they are going to have to maintain full service on two tracks for a prolonged time.

On your final point, definitely some stations will be closed, but the question probably is whether people will walk 3 blocks to an open station or 2 blocks to an already crowded Sheridan Road. If the Brown Line project shows anything, probably both. Of course, Berwyn is already a terminal for 146.