Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[BusHunter]

I took my first round trip on the new Dan Ryan yesterday. I was impressed with the stations, but unimpressed with the track speeds. I chalked up my SB to having a train in front of it and gave the NB a second chance but the NB although faster than it was seems slower still than the Kennedy branch to this day and it's working on 10 years old. I still blame the ties and they will probably need replacing before too long. I hate to ask what has been spent on the two red line projects in the last 10 years (i can find out) but I'm guessing in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. That's way more than the Midway branch and it runs better. I didn't get a chance to see all the street level mezzanines, but hopefully they made it so riders can board the station from both sides of the street or at least have a pedestrian crossing light. I thought maybe that this is part of the Chicago Fire Code, there must be two exits, but somehow CTA is escaping this. That's the biggest danger for pedestrians at these stations. They see a train want to cross and can't. If they should force the impulse that's when they get into trouble.

[Busjack]

I took my first round trip on the new Dan Ryan yesterday. I was impressed with the stations, but unimpressed with the track speeds. I chalked up my SB to having a train in front of it and gave the NB a second chance but the NB although faster than it was seems slower still than the Kennedy branch to this day and it's working on 10 years old. I still blame the ties and they will probably need replacing before too long. I hate to ask what has been spent on the two red line projects in the last 10 years (i can find out) but I'm guessing in the neighborhood of a billion dollars. That's way more than the Midway branch and it runs better. I didn't get a chance to see all the street level mezzanines, but hopefully they made it so riders can board the station from both sides of the street or at least have a pedestrian crossing light. I thought maybe that this is part of the Chicago Fire Code, there must be two exits, but somehow CTA is escaping this. That's the biggest danger for pedestrians at these stations. They see a train want to cross and can't. If they should force the impulse that's when they get into trouble.

• The billion is probably close.
• Pretty much, there was never an alternative mezzanine to the other side of the street. The Environmental Report for the 95th St. Project indicates that the main purpose is to provide a station entrance, with a second bus terminal, south of 95th, with a bridge over 95th connecting the two headhouses. The usual, such as Garfield has always been a traffic light midblock. Basically, something similar to what is proposed for 95th would have to be done to some degree at the other stations (platform extension and elevator). I think only 79th has the platform extension to a second set of stairs.

[4CottageGrove95th]

I took my first round trip on the new Dan Ryan yesterday. I was impressed with the stations, but unimpressed with the track speeds. I chalked up my SB to having a train in front of it and gave the NB a second chance but the NB although faster than it was seems slower still than the Kennedy branch to this day and it's working on 10 years old. I still blame the ties and they will probably need replacing before too long. I hate to ask what has been spent on the two red line projects in the last 10 years (i can find out) but I'm guessing in the neighborhood of a billion dollars.

Mine is strictly a "layman's" view point. But how is it rail lines like, say, the TGV (France) can lay track at basically the same gauge (1435mm), run passenger trains that while lightweight for their classification, are still heavier that an average 8 car CTA train - at speeds of 186 to 210 mph consistently throughout the far reaches of France and other parts of Europe - and yet their track (with proper maintenance of course) rides as smooth as silk with very little alignment distortion for years and years???? But here, we witness all this money having been spent on new rail, new roadbed/roadbed drainage and new ties to upgrade only a ten mile stretch of rapid transit righT of way where the highest attainable speed is only 55/60 mph, and already we're looking at a likelihood of crossties having to be replaced in possibly just a few years - IF NOT LESS? If I'm missing something here, help me out.

I mean, for all the money that went into this project, as well as similar projects previously, why doesn't this stuff last?????

[owine]

Mine is strictly a "laymans" view point. But how is it rail lines like, say, the TGV (France) can lay track at basically the same gauge (1435mm), run passenger trains that while lightweight for their classification, are still heavier that an average 8 car CTA train - at speeds of 186 to 210 mph consistently throughout the far reaches of France and other parts of Europe - and yet their track (with proper maintenance of course) rides as smooth as silk with very little alignment distortion for years and years???? But here, we witness all this money having been spent on new rail, new roadbed/roadbed drainage and new ties to upgrade only a ten mile stretch of rapid transit righ of way where the highest attainable speed is only 55/60 mph, and already we're looking at a likelihood of crossties having to be replaced in possibly just a few years - IF NOT LESS? If I'm missing something here, help me out.

I mean, for all the money that went into this project, as well as similar projects previously, why doesn't this stuff last?????

Also from a layman's viewpoint, I would assume Chicago's extreme weather fluctuations and moisture have a lot to do with that.

[jajuan]

Mine is strictly a "laymans" view point. But how is it rail lines like, say, the TGV (France) can lay track at basically the same gauge (1435mm), run passenger trains that while lightweight for their classification, are still heavier that an average 8 car CTA train - at speeds of 186 to 210 mph consistently throughout the far reaches of France and other parts of Europe - and yet their track (with proper maintenance of course) rides as smooth as silk with very little alignment distortion for years and years???? But here, we witness all this money having been spent on new rail, new roadbed/roadbed drainage and new ties to upgrade only a ten mile stretch of rapid transit righ of way where the highest attainable speed is only 55/60 mph, and already we're looking at a likelihood of crossties having to be replaced in possibly just a few years - IF NOT LESS? If I'm missing something here, help me out.

I mean, for all the money that went into this project, as well as similar projects previously, why doesn't this stuff last?????

I have to ask though, is TGV operating a train every 3(rush hr interval)-15(owl service) minutes, 24 hours per day? I mean come on. Differences in usage, perhaps types of service given and engineering and construction methods would have to come into play. Sounds like you're possibly trying to compare apples to oranges with your question.

[Busjack]

....

I mean, for all the money that went into this project, as well as similar projects previously, why doesn't this stuff last?????

That's always the question with CTA projects.

With regard to this one, CTA said that this time, it was using granite ballast instead of limestone or whatever chalk they used the last time, and supposedly fixed the drainage problems.

Ties are more problematical, as they used wood ties here, but the concrete ties originally used in 1969 cracked real quick. Probably the question is why plastic ties were not used, like on the O'Hare extension rehab.

Of course, a couple of trips is not a full assessment of the track's capability,but atrocious maintenance must be the reason that CTA always has $8-10 billion of unmet capital needs to get to a state of good repair, after spending billions. The question is whether (except for the truck accident), the spokesperson was correct that there would not be slow zones for 10 years (RedEye).

[4CottageGrove95th]

Also from a layman's viewpoint, I would assume Chicago's extreme weather fluctuations and moisture have a lot to do with that.

There's no argument there. But again other countries (i.e., France, as well as other parts of Europe) have fluctuations in weather as well. But, your point is definitely well taken.

[4CottageGrove95th]

I have to ask though, is TGV operating a train every 3(rush hr interval)-15(owl service) minutes, 24 hours per day? I mean come on. Differences in usage, perhaps types of service given and engineering and construction methods would have to come into play. Sounds like you're possibly trying to compare apples to oranges with your question.

You know, maybe you've got a point. But 425 million dollars is still a lot of money to shell out on infrastructure materials just to have to go back possibly only a few years later to do patchwork repair. It almost sounds like doing the whole thing all over again.

[jajuan]

You know, maybe you've got a point. But 425 million dollars is still a lot of money to shell out on infrastructure materials just to have to go back possibly only a few years later to do patchwork repair. It almost sounds like doing the whole thing all over again.

No there's no denying that it's a lot of money, but let's keep in mind that any projects sum is more than just the infrastructure material costs. The cost also includes the payroll costs for the construction team members' paychecks since they don't work for free as well as the cost of the machines used to do the actual construction since those aren't used for free either.

[BusHunter]

How has ridership been in the first week? I noticed a big drop in ridership on my 6pm trip. Usually the seats would be packed with a few standees but my car was half empty. Thinking about the slowness, tne idea that comes to mind is that there are too many trains on the line. If you watch the youtube video by I believe jlsaunders, you will see an alot faster trip than what I observed. I wonder if all those trains may be conflicting with each other. Maybe they should try a few roosevelt short turns and see how that works. They do have an open track on the 12th street incline but they should've put in an interlocking there this way they could do two trains at a time.

[Busjack]

No there's no denying that it's a lot of money, but let's keep in mind that any projects sum is more than just the infrastructure material costs. The cost also includes the payroll costs for the construction team members' paychecks since they don't work for free as well as the cost of the machines used to do the actual construction since those aren't used for free either.

And, in this case, all the "free rides," for which there has not been an accounting.

The construction report (June) shows only about $281M in contracts ($220M-Track, $43.8M-Stations , $16.7M-Green Line). The stuff you mentioned is in the contracts, but there is $144 million that is not.

[Busjack]

...Thinking about the slowness, tne idea that comes to mind is that there are too many trains on the line. ...

The only way a passenger can tell is to sit it the first car and listen for the cab signal beeping, and then see if there is a train in front of it.

The argument was made a couple of years ago that the north and south sides became imbalanced, passenger count-wise, but that seemed more an argument for something analogous to a more extensive Purple Line Express service, as also implied by the transfer platforms proposed for Wilson.

[Sam92]

I think we're being a bit quick to call this a failed project. I think BusHunter simply caught the train at a bad time. There were crews out a few days which slowed movement early those days but later the trains were full speed again. Then take into consideration that there is construction held above the tracks due to a metra project so things may obstruct the speed between 69th and 55th. Things certainly weren't slow on my trip home just now. Btw, more solar panels are popping up. But now I'm seeing some on the Englewood structure as well.

[Sam92]

Ties are more problematical, as they used wood ties here, but the concrete ties originally used in 1969 cracked real quick. Probably the question is why plastic ties were not used, like on the O'Hare extension rehab.

).

Another thing to question is even though the Red Line project used wood ties, they used other components from the blue line rehab (the light blue clips, rubber insulated plates, etc) but only on curves. Why not use those components along the whole line if they were supposedly high quality?

[jajuan]

I think we're being a bit quick to call this a failed project. I think BusHunter simply caught the train at a bad time. There were crews out a few days which slowed movement early those days but later the trains were full speed again. Then take into consideration that there is construction held above the tracks due to a metra project so things may obstruct the speed between 69th and 55th. Things certainly weren't slow on my trip home just now. Btw, more solar panels are popping up. But now I'm seeing some on the Englewood structure as well.

Plus there is also the temporary slow zone that got implemented the first few days between 63rd and 69th because of that truck that smacked into the barricade near the curve I think it was reported near 63rd station and caused the damage to the tracks which called for emergency repairs during the overnight hours around the same time the Metra Englewood flyover project was to start.

[BusHunter]

I wouldn't say it's a failed project. Just that it could be better. I encountered a few slow zones that were not at the curve, like just south of chinatown or on approaches to 79th and 87th and a few coming north. I was thinking but this is a new line. Maybe I'll have to try it on a weekend.

[Juniorz]

For 5 Months & For Being a Money Investing Project That kept cost low & brought other savings into Stations that was ON TIME, this project can be deemed a major success. Compared from May 18th to Now, The service is a major improvement

[jajuan]

The service is way better. Making from 95th to Roosevelt in about 20 minutes today is a heck of a lot better than back before the shutdown when that same trip might have taken at least double that time. This is one of the times CTA seems to have done something right so give the credit where credit is due and let's not be such sticks in the mud seemingly grasping at straws to find a negative.

[geneking7320]

Just came from Evanston. Made it in 1 hour and 4 min.

I rode from Howard to 95th Wednesday afternoon and it took me the same amount of time.

I look forward to repairs on the north end of the Red Line.

[renardo870]

Any one else noticed the train on the brocher is a 2400 series with the end cap a 5000?? Lol just thought that was funny

Yes, the brochure has the front end of the train 5205 but the side end 2483. Talk about a hybrid train! Lol.

[geneking7320]

I just came across a Red Line timetable dated 4/22/2012. The weekday train leaving Howard at 2pm is scheduled to arrive

at 95th/Dan Ryan at 3:11pm. So it seems the rebuild was worth 7 minutes [based on the experience of myself and Sam92].

[jajuan]

I just came across a Red Line timetable dated 4/22/2012. The weekday train leaving Howard at 2pm is scheduled to arrive

at 95th/Dan Ryan at 3:11pm. So it seems the rebuild was worth 7 minutes [based on the experience of myself and Sam92].

And it can be pointed out that the Dan Ryan leg was deteriorating so fast with how fast new slow zones kept cropping back up after they thought they had slow zones in that section fixed, that by the time of the shutdown trains were not even meeting that hour and 11 minutes scheduled travel time.

[Juniorz]

Here's the Red Line South Completion Brochure that the CTA handed out to customers at Rail Stations along the Red Line South (Between Cermak-Chinatown to 95th/Dan Ryan) on Monday October 21st, 2013. Also included is the Red Line South Restorations Brochure

Red Line South Completion Brochure FINAL.pdf

Red Line South Restorations Brochure (Effective October 20th, 2013).pdf

[ChicagoNova]

Ok. Here's something I don't understand. I thought all of the slow zones were eliminated from the Dan Ryan branch of the Red Line. Why was I still hearing the cab signal go off?

[Busjack]

Ok. Here's something I don't understand. I thought all of the slow zones were eliminated from the Dan Ryan branch of the Red Line. Why was I still hearing the cab signal go off?

The justification for the cab signal is that there is another train a couple of signal blocks ahead, so the follower train doesn't crash into it. At least on other than ghost trains.

Knocking zones permanently from 55 mph to 15 was a later affectation.

The best description seems here on Chicago Transit and Railfan. From that description, it may also be that the operator gets a beep if an attempt is made to go 56 mph.