Dan Ryan Track Renewal Project

[jajuan]

Hold The Phone.

I thought Oct. 19 was the target date, not the 20th.

Plus they did stop making references to Oct. 19th part way through the project and started giving a generic end date of 'mid-October' in various sources. One day is relatively minor when we're talking about a total five months the line is shutdown. If they started talking about one month longer instead of one day, if it does turn out the line reopens on the 20th instead of the 19th, then that's when folks need to get concerned. At least it wouldn't be like the Green Line when that project ended in May 1996 instead of the promised January of 1996.

[Sam92]

They also are sending out a few #2600 test trains here and there out of Ashland/63rd that were running from Roosevelt red line down to around 18th. Federal Junction has working signals now and most of the work seems done especially on the south end, just a few touchups on the stations, 87th was needing some canopy work at it's south end. Tracks seem to be done from 95th - 55th, but Artthouwill did report they needed third rail around 33rd. CTA has already started the pick for the new Red line, they should be opening it back up on time by Oct 20th, if we're lucky sooner.

Any Ideas on what this pick entails as far as bus/garage assignments? Maybe even some permanent changes? Also what will become of the terminal at Garfield? Seems like a huge waste to just leave it there... Could it possibly be used as a staging point or terminal for short turns? Green Line was a pretty heavy boarding poiny for the 55 so why not start and end some trips in there? Maybe even for the 3.

[Busjack]

Any Ideas on what this pick entails as far as bus/garage assignments? Maybe even some permanent changes? Also what will become of the terminal at Garfield? Seems like a huge waste to just leave it there... Could it possibly be used as a staging point or terminal for short turns? Green Line was a pretty heavy boarding poiny for the 55 so why not start and end some trips in there? Maybe even for the 3.

It appears that it was only a temporary use of capital money. I'll bet that once the Red Line reopens, most of the passenger traffic will go back there.

It probably will end up no different than CTA advertising certain surplus property that was needed for Brown Line construction, but not now, or having to acquire certain property on State between 93rd and 95th basically as only a staging area for the bus terminal project.

The much more interesting question is whether they or the city can find a developer for there. They eventually did for the 69th and Archer barns, but this seems a bigger challenge.

[Juniorz]

The Shuttle Bus Terminal @ Garfield will become additional parking for the Park & Ride Lot & may eventually become a midway turn around for Eastbound Route 55 service with some short turns @ Garfield (Route 55 Service between Midway & Garfield Station) & Route 3 (Between Erie/Fairbanks & Garfield Station or between CSU 95th & King to Garfield Station)

[Busjack]

The Shuttle Bus Terminal @ Garfield will become additional parking for the Park & Ride Lot & may eventually become a midway turn around for Eastbound Route 55 service with some short turns @ Garfield (Route 55 Service between Midway & Garfield Station) & Route 3 (Between Erie/Fairbanks & Garfield Station or between CSU 95th & King to Garfield Station) [emphasis added]

Do you have a source for that? As I noted above, I doubt it. Very few people were willing to park in that neighborhood to begin with.

Also, those who take the bus in Hyde Park will scream.

BTW, Discount double interception and a tip, Rodgers.

[Juniorz]

First, There is Physical Evidence by this permanent concrete pavement and sewage connections within the Terminal. Second, it was known through numerous sources (CTA Through online Photos & the Autumn edition of First & Fastest) That this was going to happen after the project ends. All other statements are personal suggestions. Now, can we see some of your sources........

[Busjack]

First, There is Physical Evidence by this permanent concrete pavement and sewage connections within the Terminal. Second, it was known through numerous sources (CTA Through online Photos & the Autumn edition of First & Fastest) That this was going to happen after the project ends. All other statements are personal suggestions. Now, can we see some of your sources........

People in Chicago know how to use jackhammers.

There is also a lot of pressure on CTA to sell surplus property. As I noted, the sales of the former North and Cicero (now Food 4 Less), 69th (now Food 4 Less) and Archer (see main page) barns, and you can go through the CTA Press releases for other announcements of sales, such as the Lincoln and Peterson bus turnaroud.

I bet that the U of C, which announced in the papers that it was buying up property on Garfield may be interested.

[Juniorz]

& Where are your sources for these statements

[Busjack]

& Where are your sources for these statements

Read above. Since you are unwilling to post links, do your own research. Or start posting links for your own statements.

[BusHunter]

There was talk during the Olympic bid to make a bus garage at Garfield/King, but that never happened. It seems like either CTA or the city owns the empty lot across the side street there where the buses make the 180 degree turn. That lot has been opened and artics travel in that empty lot so they don't have to make the 180 degree turn. So it would seem they have the land all the way to King Drive, except for the gas station on the corner. The city could probably eminent domain the gas station if they really wanted to expand on that land.

[Juniorz]

Sources Noted & Statements are made

Not going to argue with Busjack.............................

[Busjack]

There was talk during the Olympic bid to make a bus garage at Garfield/King, but that never happened. It seems like either CTA or the city owns the empty lot across the side street there where the buses make the 180 degree turn. That lot has been opened and artics travel in that empty lot so they don't have to make the 180 degree turn. So it would seem they have the land all the way to King Drive, except for the gas station on the corner. The city could probably eminent domain the gas station if they really wanted to expand on that land.

That's true. However, since Emanuel likes to announce construction projects, even if they aren't funded, it doesn't seem like he has an immediate plan for that lot, or pretty much anything on Garfield between King Dr. and approximately Morgan. IIRC, that was a pretty ugly gas station.

With regard to eminent domain, I noted above that the 95th station Environmental Assessment included the taking of property on State, but only as a staging area to build the pedestrian bridge over 95th, and not any overriding need to get rid of 2 gas stations, a vacant beauty shop, and a hot dog stand (page 21 of the pdf). There isn't any permanent CTA use for those properties. I also seem to remember that there is a similar staging area for this project around 63rd.

[artthouwill]

Third rail in place NB @ 35th. There is a lot of equipment on NB track south of.the station.

[2200fan]

Is there any chance they'll let the trains run 70 mph on this? Since it's all new shouldn't be a problem.

[sw4400]

Is there any chance they'll let the trains run 70 mph on this? Since it's all new shouldn't be a problem.

No. What is keeping them from this is the following... this applies to all railcars(2400's to 5000's)

Balancing speed: 70 mph

Governed speed: 55 mph ⁺

+ The propulsion package, while capable of higher speeds, is limited by the logic of the car controls and the external signal system.

While the cars are balanced to travel at 70 mph, the car controls and external signal system throughout the system will limit them to 55 mph. Top speed on railcars currently is probably 30-35 mph at the fastest points. With rail and ties being updated, trains can theoretically go to 55mph(most likely limited to Dan Ryan and Kennedy/I90 Expressway Rail Lines). Will they is unknown...

[4CottageGrove95th]

No. What is keeping them from this is the following... this applies to all railcars(2400's to 5000's)

Balancing speed: 70 mph

Governed speed: 55 mph ⁺

+ The propulsion package, while capable of higher speeds, is limited by the logic of the car controls and the external signal system.

While the cars are balanced to travel at 70 mph, the car controls and external signal system throughout the system will limit them to 55 mph. Top speed on railcars currently is probably 30-35 mph at the fastest points. With rail and ties being updated, trains can theoretically go to 55mph(most likely limited to Dan Ryan and Kennedy/I90 Expressway Rail Lines). Will they is unknown...

While what you're saying is true, it's still a bummer; I LOVE SPEED! Then again, I guess safety as well as wear and tear on the track and rolling stock are probably considerations in limiting the speed to 55 mph.

However, I did personally see an exception to the above stated rule. I remember riding a four car train of spanking new 2600s in the mid-1980s on the Jackson Park line from Howard St. At that time they were smooth as all get-out, and super-fast. The train I was on had to "deadhead" from Belmont to Washington & State to make up for lost time due to some delay at Howard Street. On the stretch of subway between the Division/State curve and Washington, the motorman opened it up. By the time it entered the 2% downgrade south of Grand and State to go under the Chicago river toward Washington, it was doing every bit of 70 MPH!! Keep in mind that this was BEFORE ATC was installed in the State Street and Dearborn Street subways. In fact, this thing was coming into the Washington/State station so fast that I started to think it was going to overshoot the "4" car marker, if not the station entirely. However, the motorman managed to stop this train right on the money by using his track brakes. So clearly the 70 mph capability is there. In fact, I remember hearing a CTA employee state that when the then-new 2400s were in the process of being tested before entering revenue service, some of those cars clocked a speed of 85 mph. To me, that one sounds like a bit of a stretch. But, hey it's possible.

[joerailfan2015]

No. What is keeping them from this is the following... this applies to all railcars(2400's to 5000's)

Balancing speed: 70 mph

Governed speed: 55 mph ⁺

+ The propulsion package, while capable of higher speeds, is limited by the logic of the car controls and the external signal system.

While the cars are balanced to travel at 70 mph, the car controls and external signal system throughout the system will limit them to 55 mph. Top speed on railcars currently is probably 30-35 mph at the fastest points. With rail and ties being updated, trains can theoretically go to 55mph(most likely limited to Dan Ryan and Kennedy/I90 Expressway Rail Lines). Will they is unknown...

It feels like the Kennedy Branch of the blue line goes 70 mph.

[BUSANGEL#1]

No. What is keeping them from this is the following... this applies to all railcars(2400's to 5000's)

Balancing speed: 70 mph

Governed speed: 55 mph ⁺

+ The propulsion package, while capable of higher speeds, is limited by the logic of the car controls and the external signal system.

While the cars are balanced to travel at 70 mph, the car controls and external signal system throughout the system will limit them to 55 mph. Top speed on railcars currently is probably 30-35 mph at the fastest points. With rail and ties being updated, trains can theoretically go to 55mph(most likely limited to Dan Ryan and Kennedy/I90 Expressway Rail Lines). Will they is unknown...

This what the standard is and what they tell everybody but reality is different. There are other rail lines outside of the Kennedy/Dan Ryan/Eisenhower that can go 55 or higher, such as the Pink, Orange, Green, Purple, and Yellow lines. Personally I have clocked an Orange line going 60 and a Skokie Swift going over 60. The Brown Line has too many curves and stops and barely does 35. Sometimes it will do 45 on the North Main portion between Armitage and Clark Junction just north of Belmont.

[Busjack]

... Personally I have clocked ...

How did you do that? What instrumentation did you use?

[BUSANGEL#1]

How did you do that? What instrumentation did you use?

I used a speedometer app on both my android and iphone. Its called "speedbox," and it records or tracks how fast a moving object is going if you're on/in it, or nearby.

[owine]

I swear I clocked a SB Purple Line Express going 60 MPH south of Granville last year. Happened to open a GPS app on my phone that displays your current speed.

[See Tea Eh]

Were these GPS apps showing a constant 60 mph, or was it a brief 60 (such as right when you opened the app)?

Sometimes, if there's a temporary (even just a couple of seconds) loss of GPS signal, and it picks up the signal again (or goes to a stronger signal), the tracking location can jump which can make the unit think you were traveling really fast when in fact it was just a position correction.

[2200fan]

It feels like the Kennedy Branch of the blue line goes 70 mph.

It used to back in the 70's, the Dan Ryan did too. This was when the 2200s were new, before they would pair them with the 2000s. I would stand by the motorman cab and watch the speedometer.

[Busjack]

Were these GPS apps showing a constant 60 mph, or was it a brief 60 (such as right when you opened the app)?

Sometimes, if there's a temporary (even just a couple of seconds) loss of GPS signal, and it picks up the signal again (or goes to a stronger signal), the tracking location can jump which can make the unit think you were traveling really fast when in fact it was just a position correction.

Good point. One also has to take into account the physics of acceleration, i.e. especially now with short distances between most stations, acceleration and braking are both by a factor of v squared.

I take it from your point that the phone doesn't have an accelerometer, just a gps.

It used to back in the 70's, the Dan Ryan did too. This was when the 2200s were new, before they would pair them with the 2000s. I would stand by the motorman cab and watch the speedometer.

Pairing them with 2000s would not have made any difference, since both had the same propulsion packages.

The only thing that would have been relevant (since both reportedly had top balancing speeds of 70, as sw initially said up here) is what the setting was on the signal system.

In any event, do you want sudden starts and stops scattering you all over the inside of the car (Newton's principle of inertia)?

[brownliner]

 

Third rail in place NB @ 35th. There is a lot of equipment on NB track south of.the station.

 

Signals were all on south of about 35 last night. (All showing red over red, of course...) I didn't pay enough attention to know if every signal was on, but most certainly were.